Export thread

synthetic or not?

#1

C

coltscardinalsfan

Hello all, just a quick question on oil changing. My lawn tractor is a new Cub Cadet model LTX 1046 with the Kawasaki 20 hp motor. I plan to put about 5 hours on the break in oil from the factory then it will be ready for its first oil change. I use a full synthetic oil in all of my vehicles but don't know if I should in a small engine. I am partial to Mobile 1 but don't know if they make a 30w or 40w oil. Can some one help....Thanks, Coltscardinalsfan :cool:


#2

B

benski

I'd certainly go with a synthetic. Amsoil is my preferred weapon, but any 10-30 will be better than a conventional oil, IMHO.:biggrin:


#3

reddragon

reddragon

stay with synthetic!....mobil 1 is great.....i used 10-30 high mileage for years...but once i found ROTELLA T6...i never went back:smile:


#4

B

Black Bart

This spring I bought a new John Deere and the manual said to use either 10-30 or 15-40 so I went with Rotella T-6 5-40 :licking:


#5

K

KennyV

Rotella T6 5-40 is outstanding Synthetic... :smile:KennyV
If you don't want to switch brands... Mobil1 is also okay...


#6

B

Black Bart

KennyV said:
Rotella T6 5-40 is outstanding Synthetic... :smile:KennyV
If you don't want to switch brands... Mobil1 is also okay...
Click to expand...
Yes Mobil would be much better than any dinosaur juice but it needs to be told that Mobil is not a PAO base oil like once was, It is now made from group-3 oil.

It is still good but when they switched to a cheaper base stock they did not lower the price. :confused2:


#7

B

Black Bart

Those of you who read this thread but don't really keep abreast of what is going on in the oil industry Castrol was selling oil called Syn-Tech and it was billed as a full synthetic but it was made from a group-3 base.

Mobil sued Castrol saying they were using false advertising.
The government decided that the Castrol was refined in such a way as to change the molecule structure enough that they could call it a synthetic.

After that Mobil switched and started doing the same thing.
If you can't beat them then joint them.

Under normal conditions this oil is good enough.

I use a PAO based oil in my 1200 HP Corvette but it cost me $ 100.00 dollars to change oil so few people need oil this good or would be willing to pay for it.

I should also point out that the EPA has got into telling the oil companies how they must make their oil.

In order to make the catalytic converter last longer they told the oil manufactures to lower the ZDDP count and that is when the guys with performance flat tappet cams begin destroying their camshaft.

All new engine use a roller cam and do not suffer from this but the fact remains that the oil has less protection from dry starts.


#8

reddragon

reddragon

BEING A TRUCK DRIVER....THESE NEW CATALYTIC BIG RIGS ARE GOING TO OPEN UP A NEW CAN OF WORMS ON THIS FRONT...IM KINDA CRINGING AT ABOUT IT....I KNOW MOST FLEETS DONT USE SYNTHETIC YET BECAUSE OF COST...ILL BE INTERESTED ON HOW THIS PROGRESSES


#9

B

Black Bart

reddragon said:
BEING A TRUCK DRIVER....THESE NEW CATALYTIC BIG RIGS ARE GOING TO OPEN UP A NEW CAN OF WORMS ON THIS FRONT...IM KINDA CRINGING AT ABOUT IT....I KNOW MOST FLEETS DONT USE SYNTHETIC YET BECAUSE OF COST...ILL BE INTERESTED ON HOW THIS PROGRESSES
Click to expand...

I retired several years ago so I lost out on what the latest class 8 trucks are using but I think they are using urea tanks and that is a whole different type than what is in a typical car.


#10

K

KennyV

Black Bart said:
Yes Mobil would be much better than any dinosaur juice but it needs to be told that Mobil is not a PAO base oil like once was, It is now made from group-3 oil.

It is still good but when they switched to a cheaper base stock they did not lower the price. :confused2:
Click to expand...

You are right... and that is another of the reasons I stopped using any Mobile1 ... we use to go through a lot of it....

The reduced ZDDP is and has been a big flat tappet problem... AND anyone with an older engine gasoline & Diesel, should become aware of this...
Cam operated injector pumps need extreme pressure additives...
Right now Rotella T6 has the best.
:smile:KennyV


#11

O

originalswampfox

I'll agree with Black Bart, I haven't kept up with whats going on. In the early 1980's I worked for Ryder as a diesel mechanic. They did a study and switched their entire fleet to Mobil 1. Since then I have used Mobil 1 in everything i own. I had no idea it had been changed or they had sued castrol. If you don't stay in touch you get out of touch. Thanks for the info.


#12

Jetblast

Jetblast

There is a ton of information and misinformation on the net about Mobil 1 composition, and it doesn't help that the manufacturer won't discuss their proprietary blend, but they are still a PAO based oil with some Group III mixed in so that their additives will integrate better, and so that the oil can suspend contaminants properly.

Exxon/Mobil learned a hard lesson about the downsides of pure PAO oil with Mobil AV-1, an aviation oil they sold in the 1990s. While pure PAO is as slippery as snot, it's a lousy cleanser in addition to not suspending contaminants well, so after a many ruined aircraft engines and a $12.5 million dollar settlement, Mobil 1 is now a blend of approximately 60-70% PAO with the rest being Group III oil and additives. That ratio changes depending on weight and application formulation.

Very few manufacturers use a straight PAO base anymore for the reasons listed, but also there is the issue of pricing, and mixing PAO with Group III helps them stay competitive as PAO production falters and stumbles from time to time. As an example, Mobil 1 had to throttle sales and distribution drastically in the aftermath of 2008's Hurricane Ike when a major PAO plant in Texas was shut down, exacerbating an already chronically short PAO supply.

I like Mobil 1 pretty well and have used it in everything for ages, including Lycoming aircraft engines in the 1990s. I guess I got lucky on that one because my engines ran so often, so they didn't get the dreaded sludge because the contaminants never had time to drop out of the suspension. Instead they were visibly cleaner with less coking, and showed less measurable wear upon inspections than with dino products. On an airplane that saves an ungodly amount of money.

My mower only has 25 hours on it now, but when it is broken in I'll be using Mobil 1 in it as well because I'd like to get fifteen years out of the thing. That is, unless I can find a same quality synthetic cheaper. I'm not nearly as brand loyal as I am wallet loyal. :biggrin:


#13

B

Black Bart

Jetblast said:
There is a ton of information and misinformation on the net about Mobil 1 composition, and it doesn't help that the manufacturer won't discuss their proprietary blend, but they are still a PAO based oil with some Group III mixed in so that their additives will integrate better, and so that the oil can suspend contaminants properly.

Exxon/Mobil learned a hard lesson about the downsides of pure PAO oil with Mobil AV-1, an aviation oil they sold in the 1990s. While pure PAO is as slippery as snot, it's a lousy cleanser in addition to not suspending contaminants well, so after a many ruined aircraft engines and a $12.5 million dollar settlement, Mobil 1 is now a blend of approximately 60-70% PAO with the rest being Group III oil and additives. That ratio changes depending on weight and application formulation.

Very few manufacturers use a straight PAO base anymore for the reasons listed, but also there is the issue of pricing, and mixing PAO with Group III helps them stay competitive as PAO production falters and stumbles from time to time. As an example, Mobil 1 had to throttle sales and distribution drastically in the aftermath of 2008's Hurricane Ike when a major PAO plant in Texas was shut down, exacerbating an already chronically short PAO supply.

I like Mobil 1 pretty well and have used it in everything for ages, including Lycoming aircraft engines in the 1990s. I guess I got lucky on that one because my engines ran so often, so they didn't get the dreaded sludge because the contaminants never had time to drop out of the suspension. Instead they were visibly cleaner with less coking, and showed less measurable wear upon inspections than with dino products. On an airplane that saves an ungodly amount of money.

My mower only has 25 hours on it now, but when it is broken in I'll be using Mobil 1 in it as well because I'd like to get fifteen years out of the thing. That is, unless I can find a same quality synthetic cheaper. I'm not nearly as brand loyal as I am wallet loyal. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Jetblast where are you getting your info that Mobil is a PAO based oil, Can you provide a link to this info??? I would like to read it.

I have seen e mails sent to Mobil asking if their automotive oil contained ANY PAO and I also read Mobil's reply.

Several people tried to get an answer on this but every time they talk about how it is a proprietary blend that is blended for the best product.

Instead of dancing on the head of a pin a simple yes or no is all that was required to put and end to the argument but they refuse to say yes or no and for me that tells me all I need to know about what is in it.

Now understand I'm not saying it is any better or worse than anything else I'm just saying at one time they wanted the whole world to know they had a PAO base and now you can not pry it out of them they will not say yes it is PAO based so what does that tell you.

All manufactures use oil as a Carrier for the add-pack so even a PAO based oil will have some oil in it but Mobil won't talk about their base.
The closest I have seen is the guy that came up with the first synthetic base oil and sold it and still does posted on BITOG that he tested the new Mobil-1 and it had NO PAO in it and he has a laboratory to test with and that is why I would like to see where you got your info that it has such a strong PAO base stock.


#14

Jetblast

Jetblast

Bob The Oil Guy's forums are rife with wild speculation on the topic and the matter isn't helped by the fact that there are so many competitor oil salesman posting there, and on every other automotive forum.

This is something I read a while ago and since the link is dead, I nearly broke my Google finger trying to find a copy/paste of the relevant section:
--------------------------------------------

http://www.exxonmobilsynthetics.com/Publ..._Sales_FAQs.asp

What percentage of synthetic engine oils is PAO and Group V base stocks (ester and other synthetics)?

Fully synthetic engine oils generally contain 70% to 80% PAO, 5% to 10 % Group V base stocks and the remaining portion are additives. However, some engine oil marketers have elected to use higher ratios.
-----------------------------------------------

I remembered the percentage incorrectly as 60-70%, but you get the idea.

Mobil 1 has consistently stated they're a Group IV based oil. Amsoil considers them to be one as well on one of their product comparison charts. (Google will bring that up.) Wikipedia's entry on Mobil 1 even lists them as a Group IV PAO based oil and nobody has challenged it successfully. Then there's the press industry press release from 2008 one can find showing how Mobil 1 supplies were impacted by the PAO plant problems from Hurricane Ike...

Despite Mobil 1's reluctance to discuss their proprietary formulas in their consumer website, all roads lead to them being a PAO based oil, including their pricing which has to be on a particular margin for them to remain successful. The "Mobil 1 = Group III" conspiracy theorists and competitor product salesman on the BTOG forums have quite a burden of proof to fulfill, but they've got nothing so far. God knows they've been trying for years!

I think there's more internet controversy on this topic than there is over who shot JFK, or who caused the World Trade Center to fall. Anyone curious enough can fire up their Google and come to their own conclusions, but it's never a bad idea to keep Occam's Razor in mind: "The simplest explanation is usually correct."


#15

B

Black Bart

Well so you won't think I'm one of those who hates Mobil I use it in my Explorer but their are some doubts about the base stock.
The things you refer to about Mobil base stock was back before the change.
Their is no question it was a grp-4 back then and they openly said so.

As to you accusations about BITOG salesman are you aware that Mobil is a major sponsor of that site.

I'm sure not defending the forum I don't post their but when someone who DOES NOT sell oil and don't work for any oil company uses their lab to test different products and post the results you got to wonder.

If what he said was not true why didn't Mobil sue him it was his statement that started the whole debacle.

I use Mobil but I'm not as defensive over them as you seem to be, I believe they cheapened the base stock and they did it because it was the only way they could compete with ALL the other who also use a grp-3 base stock.


Also keep in mind that oil has changed just in the last year.

Just this morning I was reading some VOA [virgin oil analyst's ] I was looking to see how Mobil compared to others for ZDDP not so important unless you have a flat tappet performance cam but the new Rotella T-6 has Mobil beat by a wide margin and cost less so it would be a better choice for some engines.
I also noticed that the Mobil TBN is weaker than some others so while it is a good oil I'm not convinced it is head and shoulders over the competition like some Mobil supporter's would have me believe.


#16

Jetblast

Jetblast

Exxon/Mobil may buy ads on BITOG (bobistheoilguy.com) but that doesn't keep boutique brand oil salesmen from posting there. Many are not trying to hide it and they do have a clear anti-Mobil 1 agenda. The place is a minefield.

The "change" in formulation rumors goes back to at least the late 1990s, but the majority of data for the arguments (such as it is) postdates that.

I've seen the dubious Blackstone analysis posted there along with the fatally flawed conclusions reached by its recipient, but I don't think you're referring to that when you speak about some guy's lab analysis disputing Mobil 1's claim to a PAO base. I looked and I can't find it. Can you provide a link?

I'm not a supporter nor a detractor for Mobil 1. I am a detractor of internet hype, paranoia, and BS though, as it makes it just that much harder to make proper buying decisions. I'm sure you feel frustrated by this as well. I'd like to see a conclusive end to this debate as would many others, but until Exxon/Mobil pipes up with an answer we'll have to go with the info that's out there. The way I'm reading it says Mobil 1 is still a PAO based oil and a good value, but others will see it differently. I can't help that even if we did end up basically retyping one of the longer BITOG Mobil 1 debates, but I would like to see those lab results that I can't find. Thanks in advance for any assistance in finding that.


#17

B

Black Bart

JETBLAST I'm not a member so I can't search for it but I remember reading it and I remember his name because he was one of the very few that knew what he was talking about but seldom posted.

He went by TOM and was from NJ he manufactures base stock for anyone who wants to make full synthetic lubricates.
I use the M1 0w-30 in my explorer if you compare it to Mobil's 5w-30 in a VOA you will see it clearly is a better oil.
Not all of their line is the same and of course they claim it is PAO based.:biggrin:

The 0-30 has a lot of molybdenum in it and I like that since my engine has a roller cam it is a better choice for a anti-wear agent than ZDDP.

we will never know for sure because Mobil will not say what it is any more anything that I have found where they claim grp IV is dated before 2005 and ALL OILS has changed formula's several times since then.

I understand them not wanting to talk about the exact formula but when someone sends a E Mail and they say it is formulated from the best and refuses to come right out and say yes it has a PAO base then this will go on forever.

Mobil could lay it to rest but after 10 years still no definitive answer from them.

I did a copy-paste from the BITOG site and it looks like not all of them are Mobil haters, Here is the break down on what the members used in 2010.


Code:
Oil Times used Percentage
Pennzoil 346 25.40%
Mobil 1 263 19.30%
Vavoline 169 12.40%
Castrol 131 9.60%
QS 97 7.10%
Motorcraft 68 5.00%
Rotella 41 3.00%
super tech 31 2.20%
Amsoil 30 2.20%
chevron 26 1.90%
havoline 18 1.30%
Napa 18 1.30%
Royal Purple 15 1.10%
Schaeffers 14 1.00%
Toyota 14 1.00%
redline 10 0.70%
petro canada 10 0.70%
o'Rielly 7 0.50%
peak 7 0.50%
kendall 7 0.50%
motomaster 6 0.40%
trop artic 4 0.30%
Motul 4 0.30%
Honda 3 0.20%
Carquest 2 0.10%
RLI 2 0.10%
Esso 2 0.10%
76 2 0.10%
liqui moly 2 0.10%
exxon 2 0.10%
ace 2 0.10%
Eco power 2 0.10%
Cam2 1 Trace
costal 1 Trace
Brad penn 1 Trace
wolfs head


#18

Jetblast

Jetblast

Very interesting the use survey from BITOG. Thanks for that, Black Bart. Amazing how the smallest minorities can make the most noise sometimes. :smile:

I found this (below) from "Tom NJ" dated from August of 2010 on BITOG, but he just says he found that M1 is including Group III in its formulations. No contradictions there, I'm already figuring that for reasons discussed earlier, but he doesn't discuss percentages in this post. I'd have probably gone on to dig for his original post from four years ago, but then he went on to say that he "uses Mobil 1 and considers it a great oil". Always nice to hear that from an industry insider, assuming he's on the level. Seeing that I'm only in it to know whether or not I'm using an excellent oil for my money, I'm good. I wish he'd cited some sources in that post though, as all the evidence we have to date is still anecdotal and laced with conjecture.

Interesting discussion and thanks for being dispassionate. It's not always so nice over there.

-------------------------------------------

I reported this change in the M1 formulations here four years ago and a global firestorm ensued. I took lots of grief over it, including people writing to the owner of my company, and dragging my name through the mud on the Internet. There are still people who adamantly deny that M1 formulations use Group III.

This presentation, dating sometime between 2005 and 2009, clearly shows that EM changed the M1 formulations to include Group III+, and that they did not want to tell their customers:

"With the exception of Germany, this reformulation will be invisible to consumers and B2B customers."

and:

"There will be no proactive customer communication relating to this reformulation. However, an internal briefing document and Q&A has been prepared to allow sales to respond in the unlikely event of a customer question."

This explains all the canned responses customers got when they asked EM about the change.

As I have consistently said, I use M1 and consider it a great oil, but I am happy that the truth is finally confirmed by EM. My name is finally cleared.

Tom NJ


#19

B

Black Bart

I'm not a very loyal consumer I have read for several years now how great the UOA are for Pennzoil Platinum.
Last week while shopping at my Local Meijers store I came across a clearance on 5-30 PP at $14.00 per jug.
They only had 3 left and I bought all 3 of them.
I will put this in my car and sleep well at night.:laughing:


#20

Jetblast

Jetblast

Every oil is great if you change it often enough!


#21

B

Black Bart

Jetblast said:
Every oil is great if you change it often enough!
Click to expand...
But a change with full Synthetic for 14 bucks is really good. :biggrin:

I thought it was probably old stock but it has the API SM on it so it is not very old.


#22

G

Giles

When I am given advise, I take with a grain of salt and do a little research. With something as important as engine oils, I justified doing extensive research and this is just one article that I found.
On the other hand, When I give advise, I always base it on my own research of comparison of different information that is available, not what someone told me, or a single article printed without research.
This is one of my search results and it goes along with many other published articles
Motor Oil Myths and Facts


#23

reddragon

reddragon

i remember coming across this site from years ago.....but it needs updating


#24

B

Black Bart

Giles said:
When I am given advise, I take with a grain of salt and do a little research. With something as important as engine oils, I justified doing extensive research and this is just one article that I found.
On the other hand, When I give advise, I always base it on my own research of comparison of different information that is available, not what someone told me, or a single article printed without research.
This is one of my search results and it goes along with many other published articles
Motor Oil Myths and Facts[/QUOTE

I have read that link that you posted several time before.

Most of what he says is spot on but I don't agree with 100 percent, But it is kinda dated maybe if he was to update it he would change a few things.

Things change so fast just like I read a VOA this week for Mobil super syn 5-30 and they have changed their formula again.:eek:

I can't say about the rest of their line it may or may not have changed but I'm not going to be using any of their latest 5-30

Unless they have recently changed it their 0-30 was Superior to their 5-30 even before the change.

You spend time researching oil and find what you want but if you just blindly use it without keeping up on what they are doing you will be using something different than what you thought you were using.
Click to expand...


#25

reynoldston

reynoldston

Jetblast said:
Every oil is great if you change it often enough!
Click to expand...

I find that a lot of homeowner buy a mower and lawn mower oil is the last thing on there mind much less changing it. So if the oil is never changed I would say you would be a lot better off with synthetic. I have to agree with jetblast by changing some words from every oil to most oils.


#26

G

Giles

reddragon said:
i remember coming across this site from years ago.....but it needs updating
Click to expand...
Where can I find an update that is not published by Product selling Company??
I recently tried to find updated test and only came up with Oil Company Advertising:thumbdown:


#27

O

oldyellr

Black Bart said:
Those of you who read this thread but don't really keep abreast of what is going on in the oil industry Castrol was selling oil called Syn-Tech and it was billed as a full synthetic but it was made from a group-3 base.

Mobil sued Castrol saying they were using false advertising.
The government decided that the Castrol was refined in such a way as to change the molecule structure enough that they could call it a synthetic.
Click to expand...
I just started reading this thread and have to jump in. This makes me laugh! I heard this argument from synthetic oil zealots in my car club years ago. Since dino(saur) oil is supposedly "real" oil, chemically produced oil is synthetic, i.e. fake or ersatz oil. So I guess that makes "fake" synthetic oil real. Synthetic (fake) oil doesn't even have to be as good as dino oil. Is synthetic (butyl) rubber better than natural rubber? is margarine better than butter. Is artificial sweetener better than sugar, or coffee whitener better than milk?


#28

P

possum

I have not worked on small engines much, but I have worked them alot in the last 40 plus years in many different situations. In all that time I have never seen much of a problem with the oil used. I have however seen alot of problems with the lack of oil. Low oil, and no oil has ruined alot of little engines near me or right in front of me. But never have i seen an engine shell because of synthetic or regular, 30 weight or 10-30 etc. Next on the list is dirt or dust. Running without air filters of some kind in dirty conditions is slower than no oil but it sure is hard on them after a short while. User error, trusting to memory, not finishing a job started, the wrong engine for the job with no one to look after the operators, lazy operators, no oil on isolated job sites, no spare air filters on hand, always led to dead engines.


#29

G

Giles

possum said:
I have not worked on small engines much, but I have worked them alot in the last 40 plus years in many different situations. In all that time I have never seen much of a problem with the oil used. I have however seen alot of problems with the lack of oil. Low oil, and no oil has ruined alot of little engines near me or right in front of me. But never have i seen an engine shell because of synthetic or regular, 30 weight or 10-30 etc. Next on the list is dirt or dust. Running without air filters of some kind in dirty conditions is slower than no oil but it sure is hard on them after a short while. User error, trusting to memory, not finishing a job started, the wrong engine for the job with no one to look after the operators, lazy operators, no oil on isolated job sites, no spare air filters on hand, always led to dead engines.
Click to expand...
I agree with you--Back when I ran a small engine shop, I began to expect oil problems with nearly every thing I worked on.
I believe most owners of small engines believe that since the machine had only operated for a few hours--oil was still good.
I have talked with owners that had not even changed the original oil, they just added when it was convenient!!:thumbdown:
I bought a generator with 10 HP. tecumsea engine that was about 5 years old, supposedly run less then 3 hours, and the paint had not been broken on the oil drain plug:thumbdown:


#30

kermit911

kermit911

Do you have to have a special filter to change to synthetic oil?

Dave


#31

B

benski

A special filter isn't mandatory for switching to synthetic oil, but it would be a good idea to use one if there is one available. I personally haven't seen any filters specifically manufactured for synthetic oil for the small, full-flow systems engines.


#32

reddragon

reddragon

SIMPLE RULE....THE LESS AND SMALLEST PARTICLES LET THROUGH......THE BETTER!


#33

B

Black Bart

benski said:
A special filter isn't mandatory for switching to synthetic oil, but it would be a good idea to use one if there is one available. I personally haven't seen any filters specifically manufactured for synthetic oil for the small, full-flow systems engines.
Click to expand...
No but you can buy automotive filters designed for use with synthetic oil that will work.

I have one on my JD now. :thumbsup:


#34

O

oldyellr

Black Bart said:
No but you can buy automotive filters designed for use with synthetic oil that will work.

I have one on my JD now. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

But do you need one? Seems to me that's an easy sell to people already willing to fork over the bucks for synthetic oil. Would synthetic oil harm an regular filter? I've never seen a warning on any jug that you must use a special filter with it.


#35

B

Black Bart

oldyellr said:
But do you need one? Seems to me that's an easy sell to people already willing to fork over the bucks for synthetic oil. Would synthetic oil harm an regular filter? I've never seen a warning on any jug that you must use a special filter with it.
Click to expand...
No it is not required but like the synthetic oil it is a better product.

You talk about is it necessary think about this if you change oil once a year on your mower and it holds a quart of oil then you will spend a extra couple bucks per year to use synthetic oil.

Skip one beer and you paid for it.

If you use conventional oil the filters with the synthetic materials will filter better than a paper one.

It all boils down to how well you want to care for your engines.


#36

kermit911

kermit911

Black Bart said:
No it is not required but like the synthetic oil it is a better product.

You talk about is it necessary think about this if you change oil once a year on your mower and it holds a quart of oil then you will spend a extra couple bucks per year to use synthetic oil.

Skip one beer and you paid for it.

If you use conventional oil the filters with the synthetic materials will filter better than a paper one.

It all boils down to how well you want to care for your engines.
Click to expand...

WHAT?!?!? Lets not get carried away now! Skipping beer is for emergencies only. Just skip breakfast, that sounds better. :laughing:


#37

BKBrown

BKBrown

Got started on changing oil in another thread and found this one instead of hijacking that one.

With the new Ventrac... the recommended interval is at first 25 hours and after that at every 100 hours. I changed oil the first time at 17.5 hours and just did the 25 hour change. I use the best filter I can find and Amsoil synthetic. I also try to do 50 hours if it recommends 100.

JD just remembered one of the Fram filter (when they were good filters :rolleyes:) commercials "Pay a little now, or a lot later."



#38

B

benski

WOW! That's a super conservative maintenance schedule.:eek: I've been running Amsoil products in all my motorized stuff for 28 years now, and haven't had an oil-related failure, but that sounds like an ad.:biggrin: Anyhow, are you using Amsoil ASE?
I like the idea of skipping a breakfast better than skipping a beer as well..:laughing:


#39

BKBrown

BKBrown

I use OE and XL (don't feel the need to have much more extended life) since I change oil so often and do the same with the Subaru and Sport Trac. 3,000 miles is what I aim for on the vehicles (unless it has been more than 6 months without going over 3,000).


#40

T

tarantula

I will answer the question. I think the use of synthetic is overrated, I use traditional motor oil. i wouldn't compare aircraft engines and high performance muscle car engines to lawnmower engines. Everything those guys have said is accurate, to include questioning whether you are getting what you pay for in full synthetic oil. I noticed Mobil 1 just had a price drop locally, i thought it was due to the price per barrel of crude.

Keep in mind if you use synthetic you are not suppose to go back and you need to allow the engine break in before using it.

It sounds like you are the type who will take car of your mower. Just by asking the question shows you are on the right track.


#41

B

Black Bart

tarantula said:
I will answer the question. I think the use of synthetic is overrated, I use traditional motor oil. i wouldn't compare aircraft engines and high performance muscle car engines to lawnmower engines. Everything those guys have said is accurate, to include questioning whether you are getting what you pay for in full synthetic oil. I noticed Mobil 1 just had a price drop locally, i thought it was due to the price per barrel of crude.

Keep in mind if you use synthetic you are not suppose to go back and you need to allow the engine break in before using it.

It sounds like you are the type who will take car of your mower. Just by asking the question shows you are on the right track.
Click to expand...

FALSE Nothing but Internet myth that has been around since early eighties

You can switch back anytime.
If you choose to use conventional oil fine but that don't change the fact that air cooled engines run hot and synthetic will lubricate well beyond temperatures that conventional oil will fail.

Like I say if you want to use it fine but let's stick with facts not Internet BS


#42

K

KennyV

You can switch back and forth with every other oil change if you wanted... The only difference will be while you have synthetic oil in an air cooled engine... you will have a better chance of having parts lubricated...

Do you need great lubrication? Likely not... I'm sure you have heard of folks that have never changed oil in their engines... They usually last for several seasons...
I use synthetics because I want my engines to last Many decades... and they have.. :smile:KennyV


#43

B

benski

Black Bart and Kenny V;
I'm with you 100% on this matter. There is and probably always will be a lot of misconception and misinformation on what synthetic oil can and cannot do. What I do know is that what I've used has worked very well for me, and for the absolutely miniscule amounts of oil that all my air-cooled mowers and other small engines take for an oil change, I'm happy with using synthetic. Contrast this to the 10 quarts:eek: and $14.00 filter my car takes for an oil change, and it is all just propwash.:biggrin: I spend more money in my time it takes to change oil in a mower than the money I spend on the oil I put in it.


#44

reddragon

reddragon

for those who doubt synthetics abilities.....then get to researching!....like Black Bart says..........its too cheap not to use!:mur:


#45

H

ha4145

Is it a briggs and stratton engine? If so i would recomened used either 10w 40 like the other replys to or the factory recomended fullly synthetic sae-30


#46

tankdriver

tankdriver

ha4145 said:
Is it a briggs and stratton engine? If so i would recomened used either 10w 40 like the other replys to or the factory recomended fullly synthetic sae-30
Click to expand...

Everybody says 30wt synthetic but Briggs website says 5-30 wt synthetic. Which is correct?

YS_MaintenanceChangeOilWeightChart_v1.ashx




link

How to Change Oil | Riding Mower Engines | How-To Articles | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton


#47

kermit911

kermit911

I think it depends on the season. In the summer use 30W and in the winter use 5w 30, at least that is what my manual says.


#48

tankdriver

tankdriver

kermit911 said:
I think it depends on the season. In the summer use 30W and in the winter use 5w 30, at least that is what my manual says.
Click to expand...

Look at the chart. that is from Briggs webpage. It does not show a single weight oil for the synthetic only 5-30 weight.


#49

reddragon

reddragon

ROTELLA T6 is about as tough as they come....its good for cold and extreme hot.....the factory doesnt try and keep your engine alive forever....just long enough so they're not responsible for it any longer


#50

G

Giles

I have done an extensive search for any brand of synthetic oil in a 30W single grade. I have not found one yet?:frown:


#51

reddragon

reddragon

30 wt is way out of date!....it was out of date in the late eighties:thumbdown:


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