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Starter problem

#1

R

rustfarmer

I have been fighting a solenoid clicks but doesn't start issue for over a year. After clicking 5, 10 or 20 times the unit will finally crank and start right up. Replaced starter--no change. replaced battery--no change. Bypassed every safety system--no change. Added a Ford solenoid and jumpered the original solenoid--no change. Replaced the solenoid on the new starter just for grins--no change.Checked the chassis ground and thought that it might not have been perfect and seemed to help at first but turns out--no change. Replaced ignition switch--no change. Now my other Briggs mower has started doing the same thing but haven't worked on it yet. I have worked on cars and trucks for 60 years --built engines, body work, etc but this one's killing me. Ideas?


#2

T

txmowman

If you work on cars, do you have a remote start button? Go directly from the battery to the starter, by-passing the mower. It's possibly a failed B+ battery cable.


#3

B

Bertrrr

You have done everything I would have - Don't rule out you have replaced a component that is still the problem.


#4

R

rustfarmer

txmowman said:
If you work on cars, do you have a remote start button? Go directly from the battery to the starter, by-passing the mower. It's possibly a failed B+ battery cable.
Click to expand...
I do have such and will try that. Thanks for your help!
Bertrrr said:
You have done everything I would have - Don't rule out you have replaced a component that is still the problem.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Very true, especially these days. I'm thinking of replacing all starter cables and wiring. It acts just like when you have a bad connection at the battery on a car.


#5

B

Bertrrr

Hook up Jumper cables to a hot battery and see how it reacts


#6

B

bertsmobile1

To further what Bertrrr said
Using a known goo battery jump directly from that battery to both the engine & starter + terminal
Engine cranks = starter good
Engine does not crank, remove spark plug & try again
Engine cranks fast = starter good with valve problem
engine cranks slow = internal engine problem
For this test the belts need to be off the engine pulley to isolate mower from engine
IF it checks out OK with external battery repeat the proceedure using the mowers battery ( ie bypassing mowers battery cables )
Baby steps, so do that and get back with the results


#7

R

rustfarmer

bertsmobile1 said:
To further what Bertrrr said
Using a known goo battery jump directly from that battery to both the engine & starter + terminal
Engine cranks = starter good
Engine does not crank, remove spark plug & try again
Engine cranks fast = starter good with valve problem
engine cranks slow = internal engine problem
For this test the belts need to be off the engine pulley to isolate mower from engine
IF it checks out OK with external battery repeat the proceedure using the mowers battery ( ie bypassing mowers battery cables )
Baby steps, so do that and get back with the results
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help. Jumper cables to good battery makes no difference.


#8

D

Digiacomo

I'm a new guy here, but I guess I can chime in too

I would check to see if you have a ground wire from the frame to the motor,,,,I had this happen on one of my briggs motors.......


#9

F

Forest#2

What is the engine model number?

Do you have a voltmeter?


#10

StarTech

StarTech

Might be a voltage drop in the trigger lead and a helper relay might be needed. I know several JD mowers had to have this mod over the years due too long of a trigger circuit.

Especially was happening with solenoid shift starters.


#11

B

bertsmobile1

rustfarmer said:
Thanks for your help. Jumper cables to good battery makes no difference.
Click to expand...
OK
I wrote that detailed reply because we need detailed results in order to make a diagnosis
We need to isolate an engine problem from a mower problem and an electrical problem from a drive problem
If you are not willing to do the tests I have asked you to be and post the results then I can not help you


#12

R

rustfarmer

Using a jumper with a start button from the battery directly to the starter (as suggested here) it hits every time!~ Based on that I removed a the circuit run through an extra Ford type solenoid and seems to be fixed. Kinda strange since that circuit was added (by me) to try to resolve this issue in the first place, but what the heck. Don't know if there was a bad connection somewhere or what, but I'm calling it fixed and now for sale. Thanks everyone for your help and ideas.


#13

R

rustfarmer

Forest#2 said:
What is the engine model number?

Do you have a voltmeter?
Click to expand...
The engine is a Kawasaki 9.5 HP on a snapper grounds cruiser 2002 or so. I do have a voltmeter.


#14

R

rustfarmer

I thought I had it fixed by removing all wiring to an added ford type solenoid and reverting to just the stock wiring, however, today it's back to taking several clicks before it finally cranks. I will try adding an extra ground from the engine to the frame to see if that helps.


#15

R

rustfarmer

I thought I had it fixed by removing all wiring to an added ford type solenoid and reverting to just the stock wiring, however, today it's back to taking several clicks before it finally cranks. I will try adding an extra ground from the engine to the frame to see if that helps.


#16

B

bertsmobile1

My go to is to use jumper leads to bypass the battery cables, one at a time
Firstly to the solenoid & engine then directly to the starter motor .
Also try each test plugs in & plugs out
Then repeat using a known good battery from your car / truck .
Takes a bit of time but is worth it in the long run and ends up fixing the problem rather than circumventing it temporarly .
also pull the blower housing off & have a look at the actions of the starter
It could be wear in the starter preventing it engaging with the flywheel .


#17

S

slomo

Load test the battery. Auto parts store will check for free. Then dive into wiring and starters.


#18

F

Freddie21

Remove the starter and bench test it. When jumping a battery to it in the mower, it has to do something, unless the gear is jammed. Can the flywheel be turned easily by hand, without the plug>


#19

S

snailtrax

This is what you need.

www.lawnsite.com

Starter Assist Relay ( Fix That Dreaded Click, Click, Click)

www.lawnsite.com www.lawnsite.com


#20

R

rustfarmer

snailtrax said:
This is what you need.

www.lawnsite.com

Starter Assist Relay ( Fix That Dreaded Click, Click, Click)

www.lawnsite.com www.lawnsite.com
Click to expand...
I had done this with a brand new Ford type starter. Didn't help and in fact just bypassed it and things got slightly better.


#21

R

rustfarmer

Freddie21 said:
Remove the starter and bench test it. When jumping a battery to it in the mower, it has to do something, unless the gear is jammed. Can the flywheel be turned easily by hand, without the plug>
Click to expand...
Starter works fine on the bench and unit starts and runs just fine if I use a jumper from the battery to the starter. The solenoid trigger wire runs all through the machine to safety switches (all bypassed now) and the ignition switch plus a fuse block so difficult to trace it through the frame. I'm thinking of completely rewiring that circuit.


#22

M

moparjoe

rustfarmer said:
I have been fighting a solenoid clicks but doesn't start issue for over a year. After clicking 5, 10 or 20 times the unit will finally crank and start right up. Replaced starter--no change. replaced battery--no change. Bypassed every safety system--no change. Added a Ford solenoid and jumpered the original solenoid--no change. Replaced the solenoid on the new starter just for grins--no change.Checked the chassis ground and thought that it might not have been perfect and seemed to help at first but turns out--no change. Replaced ignition switch--no change. Now my other Briggs mower has started doing the same thing but haven't worked on it yet. I have worked on cars and trucks for 60 years --built engines, body work, etc but this one's killing me. Ideas?
Click to expand...
Get rid of the mower and save yourself money.


#23

R

rustfarmer

moparjoe said:
Get rid of the mower and save yourself money.
Click to expand...
It's a Snapper UTV and I want to sell it but feel I must fix it first. I don't normally dump my problems on someone else, nor do I like to admit defeat.


#24

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Try these tests and let us know the results.
Connect one meter lead to the positive battery terminal then when you turn the key to the start position and it doesn't engage the starter connect the other meter lead to the large terminal on the starter connected to the battery. What is the voltage?
Then move the meter lead to the other large terminal on the starter (motor side). What is the voltage?
Then move the meter lead to the trigger terminal on the starter with the trigger wire still connected to the terminal. What is the voltage?


#25

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

StarTech said:
Might be a voltage drop in the trigger lead and a helper relay might be needed. I know several JD mowers had to have this mod over the years due too long of a trigger circuit.

Especially was happening with solenoid shift starters.
Click to expand...

Yup, i use the JD AM107421 kit, but really all you need is a 4 pin relay and know what you're doing.​



#26

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

rustfarmer said:
I had done this with a brand new Ford type starter. Didn't help and in fact just bypassed it and things got slightly better.
Click to expand...
what Ford part did you use?
I've used the starter assist relay many many times, and it's always fixed the problem....
The main goal of that kit is it removes the load from the starter circuit and puts it on the relay. the relay doesn't take much amperage at all to trigger. and amp or 2 at best, less load, less voltage drop.


#27

G

Geoffrey

rustfarmer said:
I have been fighting a solenoid clicks but doesn't start issue for over a year. After clicking 5, 10 or 20 times the unit will finally crank and start right up. Replaced starter--no change. replaced battery--no change. Bypassed every safety system--no change. Added a Ford solenoid and jumpered the original solenoid--no change. Replaced the solenoid on the new starter just for grins--no change.Checked the chassis ground and thought that it might not have been perfect and seemed to help at first but turns out--no change. Replaced ignition switch--no change. Now my other Briggs mower has started doing the same thing but haven't worked on it yet. I have worked on cars and trucks for 60 years --built engines, body work, etc but this one's killing me. Ideas?
Click to expand...


#28

G

Geoffrey

I had the same problem on my zero turn...recheck the ground wire and and clean up the connections to bare metal...just like that... It worked for me.


#29

J

jviews12

For everyone, battery cables go BAD on the INSIDE. I see this more with cars and acid splash where the inside (covered with shielding) is hollow or gone. I would test the cable before replacing it. Hate to buy things not needed.


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