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Good morning!

Just bought my 2012 HRX217VKA yesterday and mowed my yard.

Pros: lots of power, lighter than i expected, good cutting /mulching
Cons: the "Smart Drive" is the dumbest design i have ever used on the mower. I have adjusted it but this setup is not easy to use when i have to mow around all my trees. i have 1/3 acre and over 25 spruces. (I miss my old lawnbow but it died after 15 yrs..)

Question: Has anyone tried to redo this setup? I'm thinking of tinkering with the paddle to be under the handle so that I can grip / control it with my fingers versus thumb or palm.

Thanks,

Crazy Old Man

I'm hoping you know the Smart Drive control is adjustable?

Early versions were not, and customers complained, so the R&D guys redesigned the control with an adjuster to dial-in the position. A retrofit kit was made, and many installed. The bulk of customers who use it are happy with the adjustable control.

You may wish to tinker with the handlebar height; even a small change can make a big difference in comfort and control.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Robert, I'll try the handlebar height. I already dialed down the adjustment on the controls. I still think that the ergonomics is poor.

But we'll see. Thanks for the suggestion.

Martin

crazyoldman said:

Robert, I'll try the handlebar height. I already dialed down the adjustment on the controls. I still think that the ergonomics is poor.

But we'll see. Thanks for the suggestion.

Martin

Click to expand...

Just to be sure, you bought the mower new? Did you get it at a Honda Dealer or Home Depot?

If bought at a Honda Dealer, you have an option to return the mower for another under the Honda Commitment program; your dealer will know the details. If bought at a Home Depot, they are usually good about returns.

I know the Smart Drive control isn't for everyone. The HRX217HYA has a more traditional speed control lever (narrow black) on the handlebar and a "range" or maximum speed lever (orange) on the side. It's a bit more cost than the Smart Drive, but might be something to consider. FYI.



-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Well, i think the mower I bought was too expensive as it is, but I do like the power and muching. So no I'm not going to return it. Will live with it; I'm a bit mechanical so I have some ideas of making it easier to operate.

Won't be the first time I've modified a purchase.

Thinking of putting the control on the bottom so that i can use my fingers to pull the paddle in. Its a shame that Honda came up with this setup - really not a natural grip. I am suprized that they havent changed it. Saw a lot of internet reviews about this setup so from a consumer point of view it is deterring traffic.

The dealer wanted to sell me the YKA but I have a budget to live with.

Here is why i selected this model. 1st, it was the 2nd lightest model of etiher 216 or 217 series (89 lbs.) I was not interested in the blade brake. I also looked underneath and didnt like all the extra hardware and springs for the blade brake so that was out. What i dont understand is that if the hydrostatic tranny is so good, why is Smart Drive on all the models except the top of the line?

Anyway, thanks for the reply. Like I said, i plan to modify this setup if I can.

Regards,

Martin

crazyoldman said:

What i dont understand is that if the hydrostatic tranny is so good, why is Smart Drive on all the models except the top of the line?

Click to expand...

The hydrostatic transmission is more costly to manufacture and has more parts ($) for its controls. The Smart Drive offers the variable speed feature (usually only found on a hydrostatic model) that could allow a mower to offered at a better price point.

Yes, there are a lot of people who don't like the paddle-style control (I am one of them) and prefer the traditional levers and that's why the hydrostatic model is still offered.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

I have a 14 year old Toro and I love that I can fine tune the speed by releasing the clutch bar.

I am seriously looking at a new mower with the Smart Drive. Can one truly control the speed equally well with the Honda Smart Drive. I have not tried it myself and want to avoid a purchase I need to return.

Thanks.

My recommendation is this: buy another mower with a Honda engine but better hand controls. Ihad to sell a nice Troy pushmower with a Honda Engine from Lowes. Loved the light weight but my knees could not hold up to the exertion of pushing.:thumbdown:

The Honda is well built but get it only if you have strong hands / thumbs and no arthritis. It helps if your lawn is mostly grass (straight mowing without a lot of stopping and getting around bushes / trees).

My lawn has over 20 spruce trees, 3 oak and 1 maple plus a lot of beds around the house with bushes. So i have to slow down and fiddle with the Smart Controls to get around trees and bushes.

I plan to keep the mower and live with the shortcomings of the Smart Drive Hand Controls...



Martin

Martin,

Thank you very much for the information. If I may ask you, does the Honda Smart Drive allow you to move the bar down just a slight amount so as to allow for a slower speed. In essence, is the bar allow proportional speed or is the dial the only way to adjust the speed.

What I love about my old toro is as i release the bar, it would allow the belt to slip a bit so I could get a very slow speed around corners and edges. Then I can fully depress for full speed.

I have yet to see a place where I can try before I buy. No test drives at least that I can find.

Thanks again Martin.

-Scott

Scott1 said:

I have yet to see a place where I can try before I buy. No test drives at least that I can find.

-Scott

Click to expand...

Here's a link where you can find all the dealers in your area; I'm confident one of them has a Honda mower w/SmartDrive you can test:

http://powerequipment.honda.com/dealer-locator

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Robert has a good idea - test the Smart Drive.

RE your questions. The Smart Drive is adjustable in 2 ways: 1) you can reduce the speed of the self propel with the dial in the bottom. 2) you can also rotate / move the Smart Drive up or down the handle. But you still have to use your thumbs or palm to push down on the paddle to move the mower.

Your old Toro worked just like my old Lawnboy self propelled mower and yep I really liked that feature of slipping the belt via letting go of the bar. It was really easy to mow with that Lawnboy. Lightweight, simple and I could control it with just my right hand.

The Honda with its weight (89 lbs) requires both hands when mowing around trees to avoid branches. You can mow with one hand in the straightways. Again, the setup is not natural. The Toro you use your fingers to grip the handle and squeeze the belt drive bar; the Smart Drive (Dumb Drive) requires you to push down with your thumb or palm while gripping the kill bar.:wink:

DUMB DUMB. :thumbdown:

I'm ordering Arnold Swarzennegger "Hercules Grip" hand grip exercise springs.:laughing:

But dont take my word for it; test the mowers. If you have the $$, get the top of the line $699 with hydrostatic tranny and blade brake.

Thanks for all of the info "crazyoldman"

-Scott

Interesting thread. I have been looking at the new Honda HRX mowers. It looks like the smart drive is more natural than the Hydro models. From the pics it seems to be a far reach to the drive engagement bar for modulating speeds. What do you think? Currently I have a lawn boy with personal pace. I do not have a Honda dealer close by so I would have to go to home depot. My local Home depot only stocks the HRX with smart drive. I would have to order the hydro model. I wish they had a hydro model to get my hands on to see how it feels. I guess I could just buy they hydro model and if I dont like it I could return it.

stygz said:

I guess I could just buy they hydro model and if I dont like it I could return it.

Click to expand...

Home Depot usually offers a clean, money-back return policy, but double-check on special-order models.

All other independent Honda dealers typically participate in the Honda Commitment program; this allows you to buy any Honda mower and return it in 30 days or less with full credit toward any other Honda model. Please confirm details with your specific dealer BEFORE you buy.

If you happen to be in the Northside Atlanta area, I might be able to arrange a test drive at our HQ building off Windward Parkway in Alpharetta....let me know.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Thanks for the offer!

I am not sure the Hydro trans is really needed for my use. I dont have any hills. Just going around mulch beds and other than that just a 7000 sqft smooth golf course type lawn. If the belt drive system/smart drive is built as good as the Toro Personal Pace I will be doing good. Going to home depot to check out the feel of smart drive paddles this weekend.

It may be a pain but the Honda system is words better than toro's personal pace junk.

stygz said:

Thanks for the offer!

I am not sure the Hydro trans is really needed for my use. I dont have any hills. Just going around mulch beds and other than that just a 7000 sqft smooth golf course type lawn. If the belt drive system/smart drive is built as good as the Toro Personal Pace I will be doing good. Going to home depot to check out the feel of smart drive paddles this weekend.

Click to expand...

As you may have discovered reading comments online, there can be some strong opinions about the SmartDrive control; many like it, and find the adjustable angle of the control just fine, others don't like having to push down on it while holding the blade control lever.

The Cruise Control (hydrostatic drive) is a more traditional design, dating back at least 20+ years. I'll have to say, I've never run into anyone with a bad word to say about it. After 5-10 minutes of use, most folks are quite happy.

So while your mowing conditions might not justify the added expense of a Cruise Control, it might be a better fit-and-feel, ergonomic fit for you. That's not to say SmartDrive will not be, but you'll doing the right thing by going for a test drive and experience it for yourself.

FYI, the higher cost of Cruise Controls models is directly related to the cost. The additional levers, cables, and more expensive-to-manufacture transmission all are relative. The SmartDrive has simpler controls, fewer parts, and a lower-cost-to-manufacture transmission. Of course, all models have the same warranty coverage, so just because one costs less does not mean it is of lower quality.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

I have found only one review that was so-so on the cruise control on Home depot reviews. BTW there is over 180 reviews and it gets a 5 our of 5 rating. Surprised there is only $100 difference in price to get hydrostatic trans.

Well forum readers, it pays to check out what others say. I do compliment the quailty and reputation of the Honda mowers.

Robert had the best advice - test mow them.

I'm near 60 yrs old and my all time favorite mowers were the 2 following for different reasons:

#1 - Pushmower - Toro with the Kawasaki 2 stroke motor circa 1980's. That mower used 50:1 fuel mix and never gave me any problems. Loved that mower! Sold it after about 12 yrs for my parents because it was a side discharge and I wanted to get a mulcher mower.

#2 Self Propelled Lawn Boy (Silver ?). Lightweight, easy to use. It was used by my sons for mowing about 15 yrs ago. Finally the Carb went kaput and I had already fixed the drive train. Just wore out. Best mower ever for my yard with lots of trees. About 1/3 acre lot.

Anyway, I do wish for lighter weight self propelled mowers. It all comes down to preferences. FYI, I am physically fit ~ my hands and thumbs are in great shape. Can do 30 pushups right now! (My boy is a Marine)..

Martin

First post here, so hello to all. I bought an HRX217HXA when my hand me down John Deere self propelled gave up the ghost last season. The Deere was a great mower, just heavy and cumbersome on slopes. The deck was cracking, it needed new drive wheels once a season, and just wasn't economical to maintain. The Honda has been a great mower thus far. Lighter and more maneuverable, great quality cut, and better on fuel than the Deere. My biggest complaint is that it stopped running the second time I used it. I'm a mechanic by trade, so I verified that it was getting fuel and had spark, but almost no compression. I carried to my local dealer and they had it back to me in a week. Turns out that it had a stuck valve, which was fixed under warranty. Aside from that, I felt that it wasn't running to its full potential, and after adjusting the throttle cable a bit it hardly bogs when the blades are engaged, and cuts thick, wet grass without a hint of strain. The cruise control system is great, and after reading this thread I am all the more pleased with spending the extra cash for the top tier mower. My only concern now is longevity, which I hope will not be an issue given Honda's reputation.

On a side note, have there been any issues with the timing belts on these motors? Is there a service interval on them?

Big Red,

Does that model allow you to release the hand clutch to slow down the forward movement of the mower? I have seen pictures of the hand clutch and wonder if when one comes to the end of one's lawn, you can release the clutch to stop the forward movement. Also, if you are going around a tight area how do you best control the speed? Thanks in advance for the info.

BigRed said:

On a side note, have there been any issues with the timing belts on these motors? Is there a service interval on them?

Click to expand...

I've been with Honda since the GC/GCV series engines have been introduced, and have never seen a timing belt fail.

There is no regular service required for the timing belt; it is designed to last for the life of the engine. Should the engine ever start to really wear out, burn oil, etc. it would be reasonable to replace the belt if doing a complete rebuild. That said, the parts and labor cost to rebuild an GC/GCV engine can often exceed the cost of a new engine. If you keep it long enough to require a rebuild, you may elect to DIY just for the heck of it.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Scott1 said:

Big Red,

Does that model allow you to release the hand clutch to slow down the forward movement of the mower? I have seen pictures of the hand clutch and wonder if when one comes to the end of one's lawn, you can release the clutch to stop the forward movement. Also, if you are going around a tight area how do you best control the speed? Thanks in advance for the info.

Click to expand...

The SmartDrive control is spring-loaded and when released, the mower comes to a full stop. The more you press down on the control, the faster it drives forward. Lift up a bit, and it slows down a bit. Let it snap from a fully-pressed position and it will rotate back to the fully-released position. Any downward pressure on the SmartDrive control will cause the drive to engage. Actual forward speed will vary depending on turf conditions, mower height settings, and incline of the ground.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Scott1 said:

Big Red,

Does that model allow you to release the hand clutch to slow down the forward movement of the mower? I have seen pictures of the hand clutch and wonder if when one comes to the end of one's lawn, you can release the clutch to stop the forward movement. Also, if you are going around a tight area how do you best control the speed? Thanks in advance for the info.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can slacken your grip on the hand clutch to slow the pace of the mower, or bump the cruise speed down to accommodate. If you release the hand clutch, the mower will stop moving in it's own, but is very easy to maneuver without being driven. I typically slacken my grip to slow down for tight spots, but will also just push the mower myself if it is too tight.

The hand / thumb controls are not naturally easy to use nor intutitive. You have to slowly release the paddle and the mower will slow down... but its a bit awkward.

A more natural position would be to use the fingers when you grip the kill bar; so in essence you are gripping the kill bar and pushing down the paddle / hand control for the propelling of the mower with your palm or thumb - 2 opposite directions.

That is the problem with the Smart Control Setup- its not intuitive.

What I do is let up the speed using one of my thumbs / palms and use my free hand (left or right) to push the mower around the bush / tree. It depends on which direction i have to move the mower.

The old selp propelled lawnboy setup was easiest to use - too bad its gone.

Pro- this mower does mulch well. That i will give it due.

Martin

I agree with you about the paddles being a real pain to use. I bought an HRR216VYA last month and do not like the paddle arrangement. My wrists and thumbs hurt after using the mower for more than an hour. I did try to flip the handle bar over so that the paddle was on the top and and rotated forward, but that didn't feel any better. I also don't like the way the handle bar is mounted to the mower. The mount is too high on the mower chassis and any little pressure downward on the mower handle lifts the front wheels off the ground too easily.

I'm taking the Honda back to HD tomorrow and will get a Toro with the cast aluminum deck and the self pace speed control (model 20382) at a local lawn equipment store (HD doesn't sell that model) . I've uses Toro mowers for many years. After using the Honda for a month, the Toro is much more easy to maneuver and control.

Blado said:

I agree with you about the paddles being a real pain to use. I bought an HRR216VYA last month and do not like the paddle arrangement. My wrists and thumbs hurt after using the mower for more than an hour. I did try to flip the handle bar over so that the paddle was on the top and and rotated forward, but that didn't feel any better. I also don't like the way the handle bar is mounted to the mower. The mount is too high on the mower chassis and any little pressure downward on the mower handle lifts the front wheels off the ground too easily.

I'm taking the Honda back to HD tomorrow and will get a Toro with the cast aluminum deck and the self pace speed control (model 20382) at a local lawn equipment store (HD doesn't sell that model) . I've uses Toro mowers for many years. After using the Honda for a month, the Toro is much more easy to maneuver and control.

Click to expand...

I have had great luck with the Lawn Boy sense a speed (Personal Pace). My mower is basically a green Toro super bagger. Many complain about backing up and wheels locking up but I have never had an issue. I do wish I had the Honda motor vs the Briggs. The briggs seems to be alittle over worked worked with my thick grass. I dont cut more than 1/3 and also always dry grass. The Lawn Boy leaves a small pile of clippings at the front of the mower when I reach the point were I turn around that and wish I had the Honda motor are my biggest complaints.

robert@honda said:

I'm hoping you know the Smart Drive control is adjustable?

Early versions were not, and customers complained, so the R&D guys redesigned the control with an adjuster to dial-in the position. A retrofit kit was made, and many installed. The bulk of customers who use it are happy with the adjustable control.

You may wish to tinker with the handlebar height; even a small change can make a big difference in comfort and control.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Click to expand...

Is this retrofit kit still available? I just tried disassembling the paddle to see if I can adjust the tension on my Smart Drive, but now I can't even seem to align the pin properly to put it back together.

edit: I think I found it in this thread
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/honda-forum/9646-how-do-i-put-my-smartdrive-handle-back.html