Export thread

Last year at the beginning of the mowing season I was using a 2009 LTX1050VT with the 50" Signature Cut deck and 24hp Briggs ELS engine. The first thing I did when I purchased it (used), besides replace a gazillion parts that failed, was clean the deck and sharpen the blades. That thing cut beautifully!!! This mower would not miss a single blade of grass and would leave a carpet like cut every time. I certainly do not let my grass get too long, I run at full throttle, I keep my deck clean and I drive slow.

Towards the end of summer, I purchased a XT1 GT50 as I was looking to replace the LTX with something new and with a more robust transmission. After the first cut I noticed that it certainly did not cut as well as my old mower.

I look at all of the Cub Cadet riders with stamped decks and they all have "Signature Cut" on them but it appears as if they are not at all as good as the ones to which they replaced. I do realize that the blades on the XT1 series mower are different, and that the engines are not the same, but I expected a cut quality no less than exceptional seeing as the old one did so well. Has anyone else upgraded into an XT from one of the older LT series and noticed a difference?

I appreciate your responses.

Mike

I don't have any experience with Cub mowers other than an old push mower I had. But I do have a lot of experience with quality of cut by mowers, so please excuse a reply which doesn't directly address your question.

In my experience, quality of cut from a mower deck has as much to do with the blades and the set-up of the deck as the deck itself. Is the deck set up properly as far as being level side-to-side and pitched properly front to back? What's the issue with the cut? Is it leaving uncut grass sporadically (stringers), leaving a shabby looking cut, leaving an uncut strip, not striping or what? You say they're different blades - the amount of lift a blade has can greatly affect the quality of cut.

All of my mowers have the tire pressure set exactly to spec and decks adjusted to proper height, leveled side to side and front to back (1/8-1/4" higher in back). The main differences that I saw were:
- clipping dispersal was not as good; less velocity/force
- left no appearance of striping from alternating passes
- a day after cutting it didn't even look like the grass had been cut, as if the grass was all different lengths/lack of uniformity.

Both mowers had 50" decks, with sharp, high lift/2-1 blades, with 24 and 25hp engines running at full throttle. My biggest struggle was that they had fixed so many issues with the LTX like the spindle design, steering geometry and beefier trans (gt50 model), yet with "similar" decks it just didn't cut so well.

I see. Sounds like the symptoms of not enough of a "sail" on the blade or low blade speed. Or a highly baffled deck. Maybe they did screw the deck up. Engine RPMs are up to spec?

cruzenmike said:

All of my mowers have the tire pressure set exactly to spec and decks adjusted to proper height, leveled side to side and front to back (1/8-1/4" higher in back). The main differences that I saw were:
- clipping dispersal was not as good; less velocity/force
- left no appearance of striping from alternating passes
- a day after cutting it didn't even look like the grass had been cut, as if the grass was all different lengths/lack of uniformity.

Both mowers had 50" decks, with sharp, high lift/2-1 blades, with 24 and 25hp engines running at full throttle. My biggest struggle was that they had fixed so many issues with the LTX like the spindle design, steering geometry and beefier trans (gt50 model), yet with "similar" decks it just didn't cut so well.

Click to expand...

One more thing to consider. The deck height may not be the same on both mowers. Try mowing a little lower on the new mower and see if it makes a difference.

Cruzenmike,

Did you happen to note the moon phase during your cuts? The shift in gravitational pull on the earth during changes in the moon phase have been known to cause shifts in the trajectory/dispersal in grass clippings. Also, the uniformity of the cut can be affected based on the amount of gravity pushing down on the mower blades at max rpm. I noticed with my Kgro that during a full moon, my striping was far less pronounced then during the Waxing Crescent or Waning Crescent phases. I have even noticed that during certain astronomical events, such as meteor showers, my engine runs at higher rpms, giving a much better cut, but harder on the machine. It is important for your cuts to coincide with the astronomical conditions. It is a technique that is often overlooked, but unless you are on a tight schedule, then always cut based on the moon phases.

-BKC

Looks like Mike has his very own troll...

Well,

I guess I can give the rest of the story as it may start to make more sense:

When I got rid of the LTX1050, I was looking to replace it with something that would work with all of my accessories, such as the blade and roller that I had already purchased and so on. I coincidentally "inherited" my Exmark from my parents which was 11 years old and had nearly 500 hours on it. Now, the Exmark gives a pretty good cut, but the cut that the LTX left still looked better than the Exmark. Then when I starting cutting with the GT50 I was quick to notice that it was the worst of the three mowers. I was certainly not expecting anything to cut better than the Exmark, but at the end of the day, I had three mowers at once, in which the newest one, which had cost me nearly $3,000 just didn't satisfy me and my desires. It's not to say that it didn't work, its just that it wasn't satisfactory in my eyes. As the end of the cutting season neared, I ended up selling the GT50 as I was unhappy with the cut quality and figured it was worth as much as it could be with only a few hours on it. Then I sold the LTX as I knew it wouldn't be up to the demands that I wanted to put on it in the coming years. During all of this time I dumped almost $800 into the Exmark fixing an oil leak and replacing the drive belt, caster bearing/races and tires. Also, the PTO clutch is going (bad bottom pulley) as well as the deck spindles. So, there goes another $400. I did not pay anything for the mower, but with nearly $1,200 invested in it, I believe it is finally running top notch. I am at a point where I would just like to have something new that has 0 hours, a couple of years of warranty, and that is where my original question stemmed from.

I loved the tight, responsive steering of the new Cub Cadets, I find the styling attractive and the price of any model in the XT1 and XT2 line is acceptable. I am just hesitant to purchasing another new Cub Cadet with the experience the GT50 gave me. If in fact the older LTX models cut better than the XT Enduro Series, than I don't think I would every be happy with one. It is certainly possible that there was something wrong with the one I purchased, but now I will never know. With mowing season starting up here in about 6 weeks, I am trying to decide if I am going to continue on with the Exmark that I have poured my heart, soul and wallet into, or if I am going to venture into a different piece of equipment.

So yes, I did everything right with the GT50, in fact I am OCD about everything when it comes to setup, maintenance, operation and so on. I only use OEM parts, including OEM oil from the engine manufacturer if made, and I can tell the difference when one machine cuts better than another. It isn't the moon phase, the height of the deck or the way in which I am using it. Not all mowers are created equal, and in this case, neither are decks which carry the same name on them!

I appreciate everyone's input but I am going to let this one go as I may be alone on this one.....

I certainly wouldn't have gotten rid of the one that cut the best until I found one that cut equally well.

Now, all you have is the memory of how well it cut, which may get better and better with time until nothing measures up to that old mower.

FWIW, no manufacturer of lawn equipment makes their own oil. They pay a company that does make oil to put their name on the bottle. If you check, you can find out who put the oil in the bottle and save yourself some money.

Personally, I would have played around with different blades and deck pitches before giving up on the cut quality of a mower. Not all decks perform best with the deck lower in the front and not all high lift blades gives equal lift. Too much lift can actually cause cut quality problems. Little things like whether the discharge chute is up or down can make a big difference too. I was a bit surprised to find that my Bob-Cat actually seems to cut and disperse clippings better with the chute down. Yes, it very well could be the deck, but not necessarily...

Darryl,

I completely get what you are saying about trying to figure out what was going on. I was just at a point of frustration when it all went down. After spending as much money as I did on a brand new mower to begin with, I was not going to fiddle with it. I would also assume that setting up and operating a mower in the exact manner to which the manufacturer suggests should yield you the best possible experience. This means the best cut quality. In my case, an 8 year old mower, that I purchased used with 250 hours, was out-cutting a brand new one.

I noticed that the LT50/GT50 deck is slightly different than the LTX1050 deck. While both carry the same name on them (marketing terms), the LTX1050 has a different shape above each blade (more domed than flat) as well as a larger discharge opening (side discharge vs top discharge on the GT50). These differences alone may have helped the LTX1050 create more lift and air velocity creating a more uniform and clear cut. I was just hoping to find others than may have shared my experience when upgrading from an older model to one of the newer one.

Just ran across this thread ..... had a similar experience also going from an LTX1050 (2011) to a XT1-GT50 (2017). The LTX1050 definitely has a much better cut, did not scalp as much as the GT50 on the uneven areas of yard, and thus could cut lower. This newer LT/GT50 mower deck is an MTD design and is identical to the one on the Troy-Bilt Super Bronco 50XP.

On the GT50, if you look at the mower belt coming off the PTO is goes off to the left spindle (instead of down the center like the LTX1050). This puts a constant tension on that side. Try to lift the mower deck by hand near the anti-scalp wheels on both the left and right sides. The right side is much easier to lift than the left (left feels heavier because you are also stretching the belt). This is part of the problem, the mower deck is supposed to "float" with equal weight distribution, but since it is essentially heavier on the left side (due to the off center belt) it will tend to scalp or cut lower on that side when the yard is uneven and the deck wheels touch.

I think you are also correct on the aerodynamics of the LTX1050 deck, it has more volume over the blades, and this deck was marketed as being designed by aerospace engineers to get better lift for a cleaner cut. Most likely a different engineering team designed this newer GT50 deck, unfortunately did not build on the previous successful design.

tspell said:

Just ran across this thread ..... had a similar experience also going from an LTX1050 (2011) to a XT1-GT50 (2017). The LTX1050 definitely has a much better cut, did not scalp as much as the GT50 on the uneven areas of yard, and thus could cut lower. This newer LT/GT50 mower deck is an MTD design and is identical to the one on the Troy-Bilt Super Bronco 50XP.

On the GT50, if you look at the mower belt coming off the PTO is goes off to the left spindle (instead of down the center like the LTX1050). This puts a constant tension on that side. Try to lift the mower deck by hand near the anti-scalp wheels on both the left and right sides. The right side is much easier to lift than the left (left feels heavier because you are also stretching the belt). This is part of the problem, the mower deck is supposed to "float" with equal weight distribution, but since it is essentially heavier on the left side (due to the off center belt) it will tend to scalp or cut lower on that side when the yard is uneven and the deck wheels touch.

I think you are also correct on the aerodynamics of the LTX1050 deck, it has more volume over the blades, and this deck was marketed as being designed by aerospace engineers to get better lift for a cleaner cut. Most likely a different engineering team designed this newer GT50 deck, unfortunately did not build on the previous successful design.

Click to expand...

Your investigation and deductions are mostly correct.
It is all about making the mowers cheaper every year because the market want cheap, not good, so who ever makes the cheapest mower in any class any year will make the most sales.
Most sales = most profit so in the long run it is a problem caused by the consumers failing to recognise quality and purchasing solely on price.

However also note that belt tension changes with the position of the deck as the effective distance between pulley centres changes, there were deck runs that prevented this happening but again no one wanted to pay the extra for it.
Next a side discharge deck is neither symetrical nor balanced and most are heavier on the discharge side than the non discharge side.
The greater volume of grass on the discharge side also makes that side heavier and the torque reaction of tossing the grass to the right will make the deck skew to the left in use.
The decks do not float as such, they hang and in use the blades creating an updraught pull the deck down harder , that Newton bloke again.

If you want a fine finish you need to go to a rear discharge deck, and most mowers with that type of decks are known for producing a fine finish, much of which comes down to having counter rotating blades.
Down side is these mowers are near twice the price so only sell to people where the finish on the lawn is more important than the price of the mower.

I know it's been awhile but I thought I would mention that aside from the fabricated decks that are on the XT1/2 models, the Cub Cadet XT3 still uses the old style of stamped deck found on my previous LTX1050. The only modification was adding a double pulley to connect the PTO clutch to the deck (two belt design). I am sure this solves many of the issues that LTX owners had with burning up belts and grenade-ing decks (like I had happen). Again this is all must be about cost savings and the continued cheapening of consumer mowers because the 50" stamped deck alone costs around $700.