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I am currently looking for my first commercial mower ever. I currently have two 21" Toro SR4(s). I would like to save a much money as possible and not spend a lot, but I want to spend enough that I am buying an excellent piece of equipment. I have been looking at pretty much every single company that makes a walk behind that has a dealer near me. I researched zero turns, stand on mowers, and walk behinds. I have settled on a walk behind so don't try to start selling me on a zero turn or something. Right now the front runners are the Scag SWZT and the Snapper Pro SW35. I will lay out some of the pros and the cons between the two mowers. I am open to other brand recommendations.

Scag
Pros:
1. I have and some people I know personally recommend Scag and not just recommend them but also so how well they have run for them. Also, lots of people here on the internet say that Scag is an amazing brand. So as far as I can tell by what other people say I believe that Scag is a quality mower.
2. I know Scags stripe well and that is pretty important to me.
3. Not much more expensive than Snapper Pro as far as I can tell.
Cons:
1. The closest scag dealer is about a 20-30 minute drive one way. I don't have a ton of clients yet so I'm not super concerned with time, but I would prefer to save time so at least I have it do something other than driving a mower to a dealer.
2. Smaller engine so I'm not sure how well it will do considering I want to mulch pretty much 100% of the time and use a sulky.
3. Not the Velocity+ deck.
4. Not sure how well it mulches.

Snapper Pro
Pros:
1. The dealer is super close. My current dealer carries snapper pro and from my house to the dealer is about a five minute 5 drive if that.
2. Has two engines to choose from either Kawi and B&S and the B&S has plenty of horsepower.
3. Cheaper by a bit, but if you factor in how big of an engine it comes with it is much cheaper than other walk behinds with that much power.
Cons:
1. The question of quality. I heard that snapper pro at one point used and might still be using more plastic than competitors. I heard in the 90s or early 2000s that they used plastic pulleys or something. I'm just not sure if they are quality I have always kind of thought of Snapper as cheap.
2. Not sure how well it mulches.
3. Not sure about striping. I've seen pictures that look really good and others that don't.

Mulching capabilities are VERY important considering I would prefer to mulch 100% of the time other than maybe fall clean ups.
I'm planning on getting either a 48" or a 52" with either a 30" or 21" Toro push mower.
One thing that is the same with both models it that there are no scalp rollers on the 36" one in the middle on the 48" and on the 52" it has rollers in the middle and sides. So for the option of more scalp rollers I might go with the 52 inch.
My Toro push mowers have been awesome so I thought I might go with a Toro/Exmark but when I found out that a floating deck hydro drive was going to cost at least $8,000 I started looking at other brands

I feel like I am forgetting some details that I might need to add, but for now just ask if you need any more information to help me pick the right mower.

SCAG is a very good mower. Well built and cuts well with the Velocity deck. I love there machines, but very rare around here and dealer offers no financing and is expensive (7200$ for a 36").

I am going to get a Ferris FW35 (same as a Snapper, but a litlle better). Snapper and Ferris are not as expensive, but it doesn't mean they aren't as good.

If you can, try both mowers out. Dealer support and warranty is very important IMO. The decks on the Snapper/Ferris are vey good also and stripe well.

And get an Exmark 30". Simply the best time saver over a 21". Thank me later.

Lawnboy18 said:

And get an Exmark 30". Simply the best time saver over a 21". Thank me later.

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I'll be going with the 30" Toro because of dealer locations.

Allright. There are some differences, but you will be fine. Don't get a 21".

Lawnboy18 said:

SCAG is a very good mower. Well built and cuts well with the Velocity deck. I love there machines, but very rare around here and dealer offers no financing and is expensive (7200$ for a 36").

I am going to get a Ferris FW35 (same as a Snapper, but a litlle better). Snapper and Ferris are not as expensive, but it doesn't mean they aren't as good.

If you can, try both mowers out. Dealer support and warranty is very important IMO. The decks on the Snapper/Ferris are vey good also and stripe well.

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Here are the prices I have been quoted.
Scag:
Scag SWZT 48" $5,000 they said they didn't care if I paid cash or financed. I also asked if they had any winter deal. They did not there go my two ways of possibly getting a better price. :laughing:
Another dealer's price was $5,500 but they had a winter deal which made it $4,499
Snapper Pro
I wasn't that interested in Snapper Pro/Ferris at the time so I only called one ferris dealer.
FW35/SW35 48" $5,599 for the FX Kawi
SW30/FW30 36" $4,399
Toro
Floating deck Hydro-drive 48" $7,777

Lawnboy18 said:

Allright. There are some differences, but you will be fine. Don't get a 21".

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Yes. I'm switching to a 30 so much better, but I need to keep my 21" for one lawn that has such a small gate. Haha.
I understand that there are differences, but the closest dealer is at least 26 miles away. That would take me at least 30-40 minutes one way. Compared to my Toro dealer that is only 5 minutes away.

Yea, them prices are low in the States. Ferris FW35 48" is 7400$ here. It's pretty good considering the harsh exchange rate. But, the SCAG dealer is nuts tho.

Toro and Exmark are always expensive and not always good. A 48" Turf Tracer around here is 9800$ + 15% sales tax.

I would go with the SCAG just because it is such a good looking machine and it performs well.

Lawnboy18 said:

Yea, them prices are low in the States. Ferris FW35 48" is 7400$ here. It's pretty good considering the harsh exchange rate. But, the SCAG dealer is nuts tho.

Toro and Exmark are always expensive and not always good. A 48" Turf Tracer around here is 9800$ + 15% sales tax.

I would go with the SCAG just because it is such a good looking machine and it performs well.

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Even considering that the dealer is much farther away?
Also the Scag 48 has a 15 HP engine I think. Is that enough power to mulch 100% of the time even during growing times of the season? Also I will be using a sulky as much as possible. Is that enough power to handle all of that.
The 52 scag has 19 HP I think.
Compared to the 52" SW35 which has 25 HP I think depending on what engine you pick.

Ferris dealer is 45 minutes away and is awsome. Exmark/Toro dealer is 30 minutes away and is not as cool. I know the Ferris shop better. I know there son and his cousin. Don't mind driving the extra 15 minutes.

The 15/48 should be fine, but don't expect to fly thru tall thick wet grass on those bi-weekly contracts or during the begining of the season.

Conn0r33 said:

Yes. I'm switching to a 30 so much better, but I need to keep my 21" for one lawn that has such a small gate. Haha.
I understand that there are differences, but the closest dealer is at least 26 miles away. That would take me at least 30-40 minutes one way. Compared to my Toro dealer that is only 5 minutes away.

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Try tipping the 30" mower on its side to get through narrow gates. Not too hard to do.

sjessen said:

Try tipping the 30" mower on its side to get through narrow gates. Not too hard to do.

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Thanks, good idea.

Also, I forgot to add, there is a 200 lb. difference. The 48" Scag weighs 585 lbs. the 52 Scag 605 lbs. compared to the Snapper SW35 48 which weighs 809 lbs. and the 52 weighs 814.

Well, or the Ferris/Snapper are built better or have useless amounts of metal where not needed.

If weight is a factor for you, go with the SCAG. Don't forget these are still lighter than a ZTR.

Lawnboy18 said:

Well, or the Ferris/Snapper are built better or have useless amounts of metal where not needed.

If weight is a factor for you, go with the SCAG. Don't forget these are still lighter than a ZTR.

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I'm not very concerned about weight when it comes to walk behinds. I don't know what constitutes "well built," one company says their way of building is the best another will tell you they are building a smarter way. The Scag appears to be built so in a way so that it is not putting a lot of weight on the turf. The Snapper/Ferris might be the more heavy duty of the two but I really have no idea. Everyone says scag is the best or, at least, they will say its a great brand. So considering what people have said I am leaning towards Scag because all the prices I have compared between the two brands are nearly the same.

My number one concern is how well each mower mulches. I will most likely go with the best mulching mower even if it were a completely different brand.

Conn0r33 said:

I'm not very concerned about weight when it comes to walk behinds. I don't know what constitutes "well built," one company says their way of building is the best another will tell you they are building a smarter way. The Scag appears to be built so in a way so that it is not putting a lot of weight on the turf. The Snapper/Ferris might be the more heavy duty of the two but I really have no idea. Everyone says scag is the best or, at least, they will say its a great brand. So considering what people have said I am leaning towards Scag because all the prices I have compared between the two brands are nearly the same.

My number one concern is how well each mower mulches. I will most likely go with the best mulching mower even if it were a completely different brand.

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The engines on the Scag seem a bit low on hp for mulching during heavy spring growth.

sjessen said:

The engines on the Scag seem a bit low on hp for mulching during heavy spring growth.

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I called a dealer today. They said I should be fine mulching and using a sulky during even spring growth, but that is the dealer. :wink:

Can big commercial mowers even mulch well? Like 100% of the time like I want to do or not? Am I just trying to do something that isn't most likely possible? I've heard guys who say that decks are made one way by manufacturers and that is mostly to side discharge. If you want to mulch you will be adding baffles to TRY to change the airflow of the deck which isn't what it was originally designed for. Is this true or can large mowers mulch very well?

Conn0r33 said:

I called a dealer today. They said I should be fine mulching and using a sulky during even spring growth, but that is the dealer. :wink:

Can big commercial mowers even mulch well? Like 100% of the time like I want to do or not? Am I just trying to do something that isn't most likely possible? I've heard guys who say that decks are made one way by manufacturers and that is mostly to side discharge. If you want to mulch you will be adding baffles to TRY to change the airflow of the deck which isn't what it was originally designed for. Is this true or can large mowers mulch very well?

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Every area of the country is different so what works here might not work for you and vice versa. That said, most operators who mulch will side discharge during the heavy spring growth and switch to mulching later, say in June or thereabouts. Locally, there are a handful of guys who mulch all year round and their lawns look pretty good. Guys who mulch oftentimes struggle with dallis grass stems and lawns that are cut biweekly. Since I run Exmarks I cannot speak to how well the Scag or Snapper Pro mowers will do for you. Hopefully, others will chime in with their thoughts. Worst case, you could purchase a mower with a full mulch kit using that until you have problems and remove until later in the year and during leaf season.

Best of luck to you!

sjessen said:

Every area of the country is different so what works here might not work for you and vice versa. That said, most operators who mulch will side discharge during the heavy spring growth and switch to mulching later, say in June or thereabouts. Locally, there are a handful of guys who mulch all year round and their lawns look pretty good. Guys who mulch oftentimes struggle with dallis grass stems and lawns that are cut biweekly. Since I run Exmarks I cannot speak to how well the Scag or Snapper Pro mowers will do for you. Hopefully, others will chime in with their thoughts. Worst case, you could purchase a mower with a full mulch kit using that until you have problems and remove until later in the year and during leaf season.

Best of luck to you!

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How can mulching cause dallisgrass?

How much horsepower do I need to mulch at almost any speed within reason and ride on a sulky and going up hills if I needed to on thick healthy lawns? How much would be required to get me the best mulching performance in most conditions.
I realize muching is harder for the mower to handle so I can't just drive 7mph over 10" tall thick thick grass but I just want to know what is needed for most cases.

Conn0r33 said:

How can mulching cause dallisgrass?

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It doesn't. Dallas grass is really tough to mulch because of the tall stems.

Conn0r33 said:

How much horsepower do I need to mulch at almost any speed within reason and ride on a sulky and going up hills if I needed to on thick healthy lawns? How much would be required to get me the best mulching performance in most conditions.
I realize muching is harder for the mower to handle so I can't just drive 7mph over 10" tall thick thick grass but I just want to know what is needed for most cases.

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These are not easy questions to answer. If you really want to mulch in all conditions the Snappers may be the way to go. Full disclosure I have never run a Scag so have no idea how they would do in heavy conditions.

I do know the Ferris clumps less than Exmark. I know you don't have Exmark on the radar, but I did. I read the most I could about them. The decks are tighlty baffled causing clumps on wet grass or wet long grass. I even see it of my own eyes on some properties. The Ferris/Snapper on the other hand are good at not clumping as I can see. This is by reading. No experience apart from trying them on bone dry grass.

If you mulch, you need power. But, I don't think you will be able to mulch all lawns in early spring. It's just too much to precess. I say get the mulch kit and keep it for when June arrives. April-May is way too wet and the lawn grows a lot. You will end up with a lot of deck build up and probably some stragglers all over the place.

The Scag has the Hydro-Gear ZT-2800 compared to the SW35 that has the Hydro-Gear ZT-3100 with 7" cooling fans. Is this something I should take into consideration? Is there a big difference between the ZT-2800 and the ZT-3100?

Absoluetly! ZT-3100 is for commercial use.

This has been strongly debated on forums. All tho, the SCAG isn't a heavy zero turn mower, it should be fine with the ZT-2800.

Lawnboy18 said:

Absoluetly! ZT-3100 is for commercial use.

This has been strongly debated on forums. All tho, the SCAG isn't a heavy zero turn mower, it should be fine with the ZT-2800.

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So is the ZT-2800 not for commercial use, but works well because the SWZT is so lightweight?
Also, I was afraid that the engines on SWZT were underpowered, but I found out that Toro, Exmark, and Bobcat all use the same HP amount with the corresponding deck size as the Scag. Although, Bobcat and maybe Toro and Exmark use the FX series Kawi instead of the FS series that the Scag uses. I have been told that the difference between the FX and FS is hardly anything that the air filter may be different and maybe something else, but hardly anything is different.

Lawnboy18 said:

Absoluetly! ZT-3100 is for commercial use.

This has been strongly debated on forums. All tho, the SCAG isn't a heavy zero turn mower, it should be fine with the ZT-2800.

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Is it a bad thing that a commercial mower (the SWZT) has a residential Hydro in it? Should I be concerned about this?

I think the motors on the SCAG had an issue with air filters. Some got a canister to cover up the air filter better.

You should be fine. Normally, ZT-2800 hydros are found in entry level zero turn mowers. Now, you just have a WB that is lighter. They don't work as hard. The reason why SCAG did this was most probably to lower the price of the unit and attract more customers. If you want, you can research about this. It is strongly debated. It worried me too, but like I said, the weight is a factor.

Well, my main problem is that hardly anyone mulches except for leaves during the fall. That makes it very hard to find out what is the best mower for me when you can find a ton of reviews on mowers, but hardly any about mulching. Snapper Pro/Ferris and Scag are what I'm considering the most, but if there was someone like me who mulches all year that knew and said this is the best mulching mower whatever brand it is I would probably go with it because I pretty much only care about mulching. I mean I would prefer a walk behind with hydros and a floating deck, but my number one concern is mulching.

Same problem here, but with the Ferris. Not sure if I should buy a mulch kit or not.

So, I am going to get an OCDC to side discharge and a bagger from some lawns. Mulch kits are expensive and a pain to remove.

Lawnboy18 said:

SCAG is a very good mower. Well built and cuts well with the Velocity deck. I love there machines, but very rare around here and dealer offers no financing and is expensive (7200$ for a 36").

I am going to get a Ferris FW35 (same as a Snapper, but a litlle better). Snapper and Ferris are not as expensive, but it doesn't mean they aren't as good.

If you can, try both mowers out. Dealer support and warranty is very important IMO. The decks on the Snapper/Ferris are vey good also and stripe well.

Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean when you say the dealer doesn't offer financing? The Dealers don't have anything to do with financing.

Conn0r33 said:

I'm not very concerned about weight when it comes to walk behinds. I don't know what constitutes "well built," one company says their way of building is the best another will tell you they are building a smarter way. The Scag appears to be built so in a way so that it is not putting a lot of weight on the turf. The Snapper/Ferris might be the more heavy duty of the two but I really have no idea. Everyone says scag is the best or, at least, they will say its a great brand. So considering what people have said I am leaning towards Scag because all the prices I have compared between the two brands are nearly the same.

My number one concern is how well each mower mulches. I will most likely go with the best mulching mower even if it were a completely different brand.

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When one talks about a well built mower you talk about the frame, is it a 2x2 or 1.5x3 and what gauge is the metal, same for the deck. What gauge is the deck, is it a 13 or 10 or a 10/7 with reinforced spindle mounts and what and how big are the spindles, are they sealed or grease-able type. Ferris and Snapper are cheaper for a reason just like Toro is more expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for.

Ric said:

I don't understand what you mean when you say the dealer doesn't offer financing? The Dealers don't have anything to do with financing.

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SCAG doesn't offer financing in Canada for some odd reason unless I was fed BS.
Dealer didn't want to arrange something on his own neither.

Lawnboy18 said:

SCAG doesn't offer financing in Canada for some odd reason unless I was fed BS.
Dealer didn't want to arrange something on his own neither.

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Scag Power Equipment and Sheffield Financial offer the Financing, it's a manufacturer promotion. Same with Toro and any of the others. The dealer doesn't have anything to do with financing so unless Sheffield doesn't offer financing in Canada (which they may do I don't know) you can get any number of financing options and you should be able to get the 0% 48 month on most of there mowers unless your credit rating is bad. The dealer just takes your application and submits it / fax it in and you get approved in minutes.

I guess the dealer was full of s h i t.

Lawnboy18 said:

I guess the dealer was full of s h i t.

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I don't know about being full of crap, it just sounds like maybe his percentage is more if he sells through the business.