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Reliable front wheel drive push mower
#1
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drmax
D
drmax
Reliable REAR wheel drive push mower
I have read till I'm numb. Have a fairly small yard...flat. Looking for a dependable "rear" wheel drive mulching mower, in the $350 - $400 range. Big deal for me is the reliability of the drive system. I want variably speed. Engine Honda...gotta has enough HP to keep up with the speed and depth of grass. (not crazy deep, just the norm) Anyone here can either tell me to "stay away" from a brand....or suggest a model, I'd appreciate. Sorta favoring the Honda mower, overall. Thank you.
I have read till I'm numb. Have a fairly small yard...flat. Looking for a dependable "rear" wheel drive mulching mower, in the $350 - $400 range. Big deal for me is the reliability of the drive system. I want variably speed. Engine Honda...gotta has enough HP to keep up with the speed and depth of grass. (not crazy deep, just the norm) Anyone here can either tell me to "stay away" from a brand....or suggest a model, I'd appreciate. Sorta favoring the Honda mower, overall. Thank you.
#2
primerbulb120
primerbulb120
If you want a reliable drive system, don't get the Honda. The rear axle bushings will seize and it will become impossible to pull the mower backwards.
#3
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drmax
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drmax
Geeeesh, and when I thought I had my mind made up. Darn I was trying to change my post to say Rear Wheel Drive. That is what I wantIf you want a reliable drive system, don't get the Honda. The rear axle bushings will seize and it will become impossible to pull the mower backwards.
#4
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drmax
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drmax
Is the Honda it's own patented drive system...or they all pretty much the same, as far as the read wheel drives? The other unit I'm considering is the Husky, which is 22" rear wheel drive. Don not need the larger wheels on back, but oh well
#5
primerbulb120
primerbulb120
Honda has their own unique drive system. And it would be one of the best on the market if they would put bearings on the driveshaft instead of bushings.
Could you give me the model number of the Husky you're looking at?
Could you give me the model number of the Husky you're looking at?
#6
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drmax
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drmax
Husqvarna LC221Rh 160cc 21-in Self-Propelled Rear Wheel Drive. I do like the dual blade deal on the honda. If the bearing deal is the only issue and works for 5 yrs and isn't that big of a deal working on, I'd still go with it. If there is a better model out there in this $400 price range, I'm listening. I tinker on stuff, so I'm good that way. Last thing I need is a POS. Thx GregHonda has their own unique drive system. And it would be one of the best on the market if they would put bearings on the driveshaft instead of bushings.
Could you give me the model number of the Husky you're looking at?
#7
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drmax
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drmax
Bearing
A little more thinking...when those bearings do go out on Honda...seems I guys could find a sealed ball or needle bearing to replace it with. Then it'd never fail
A little more thinking...when those bearings do go out on Honda...seems I guys could find a sealed ball or needle bearing to replace it with. Then it'd never fail
#8
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eric102
I have a 27 year old Honda rear drive and its been bullet proof, don't know if it has bearings or bushings in the drive.
If it ever dies (unlikley) it will be replaced by another Honda.
E
eric102
Husqvarna LC221Rh 160cc 21-in Self-Propelled Rear Wheel Drive. I do like the dual blade deal on the honda. If the bearing deal is the only issue and works for 5 yrs and isn't that big of a deal working on, I'd still go with it. If there is a better model out there in this $400 price range, I'm listening. I tinker on stuff, so I'm good that way. Last thing I need is a POS. Thx Greg
I have a 27 year old Honda rear drive and its been bullet proof, don't know if it has bearings or bushings in the drive.
If it ever dies (unlikley) it will be replaced by another Honda.
#9
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drmax
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drmax
I see this model been around quite awhile. That's a good sign. Yeah, I've always bought toyota's. If it aint' broke, don't fix it!I have a 27 year old Honda rear drive and its been bullet proof, don't know if it has bearings or bushings in the drive.
If it ever dies (unlikley) it will be replaced by another Honda.
#10
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drmax
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drmax
If I'm spending 400, may bump it up a couple hundred and go the HRX217. Larger eng and nexite deck. I tend to hang onto things forever...this may be the next forever item. Don't need the cruise control. 599 and then additional 10% military disc HD. I'll wait and get some more feedback for a couple days. Still have to sell my 2002 Simplicity Conquest tomorrow, before I head to HD.
#11
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eric102
Good choice, I went top of the line 27 years ago and never regretted it.
Besides maintenance items the only parts needed have been a new blade (old one actually wore out) and starter rope a couple times.
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eric102
If I'm spending 400, may bump it up a couple hundred and go the HRX217. Larger eng and nexite deck. I tend to hang onto things forever...this may be the next forever item. Don't need the cruise control. 599 and then additional 10% military disc HD. I'll wait and get some more feedback for a couple days. Still have to sell my 2002 Simplicity Conquest tomorrow, before I head to HD.
Good choice, I went top of the line 27 years ago and never regretted it.
Besides maintenance items the only parts needed have been a new blade (old one actually wore out) and starter rope a couple times.
#12
primerbulb120
That one looks good. :thumbsup:
The Honda dual blades do not make the cut significantly better than a single blade. I took them off and installed an Oregon Gator Mulcher instead. The cut quality was significantly improved on tall, thick or wet grass.
The Hondas don't have bearings on the axle shaft, they have Teflon bushings. If they had bearings, they would be much better.
I've had two Hondas. Both were HRR216VKA, both were bought new, both refused to roll backwards within 2 months of use. I do use them commercially, but even so they should last longer than 2 months. :confused2:
They aren't bearings, they're bushings...and there's no way (unless you're a machinist) to modify the mower to take bearings instead.
primerbulb120
Husqvarna LC221Rh 160cc 21-in Self-Propelled Rear Wheel Drive.
That one looks good. :thumbsup:
I do like the dual blade deal on the honda.
The Honda dual blades do not make the cut significantly better than a single blade. I took them off and installed an Oregon Gator Mulcher instead. The cut quality was significantly improved on tall, thick or wet grass.
If the bearing deal is the only issue and works for 5 yrs and isn't that big of a deal working on, I'd still go with it.
The Hondas don't have bearings on the axle shaft, they have Teflon bushings. If they had bearings, they would be much better.
I've had two Hondas. Both were HRR216VKA, both were bought new, both refused to roll backwards within 2 months of use. I do use them commercially, but even so they should last longer than 2 months. :confused2:
A little more thinking...when those bearings do go out on Honda...seems I guys could find a sealed ball or needle bearing to replace it with. Then it'd never fail
They aren't bearings, they're bushings...and there's no way (unless you're a machinist) to modify the mower to take bearings instead.
#13
primerbulb120
Here's my theory about why the bushings seize: The deck (which is steel) bends over time under the weight of the mower and the stress of going over bumps in the yard. The bushings are attached to the wheel height adjusters, which are attached to the deck. When the deck bends, it throws the bushings out of alignment with the driveshaft and causes the bushings to bind.
The 20+ year old Hondas also had Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. But I think the thick cast aluminum decks were harder to bend than the thinner steel ones on newer Hondas.
The HRX217 also has Teflon bushings on the driveshaft. Since the deck is Nexite, it might not warp as easily. I can't say that for sure though. :confused2:
The Honda drive system is set up in such a way that the wheels are always connected to the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. The Husqvarna, if I remember correctly, disconnects the wheels from the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. Thus, the Honda is harder to roll back than the Husqvarna.
Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of buying a Toro with the Personal Pace drive system. Unless the drive system is adjusted perfectly (and sometimes even if it is), you end up pushing the mower yourself without realizing it.
primerbulb120
If I'm spending 400, may bump it up a couple hundred and go the HRX217. Larger eng and nexite deck. I tend to hang onto things forever...this may be the next forever item. Don't need the cruise control. 599 and then additional 10% military disc HD. I'll wait and get some more feedback for a couple days. Still have to sell my 2002 Simplicity Conquest tomorrow, before I head to HD.
Here's my theory about why the bushings seize: The deck (which is steel) bends over time under the weight of the mower and the stress of going over bumps in the yard. The bushings are attached to the wheel height adjusters, which are attached to the deck. When the deck bends, it throws the bushings out of alignment with the driveshaft and causes the bushings to bind.
The 20+ year old Hondas also had Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. But I think the thick cast aluminum decks were harder to bend than the thinner steel ones on newer Hondas.
The HRX217 also has Teflon bushings on the driveshaft. Since the deck is Nexite, it might not warp as easily. I can't say that for sure though. :confused2:
The Honda drive system is set up in such a way that the wheels are always connected to the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. The Husqvarna, if I remember correctly, disconnects the wheels from the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. Thus, the Honda is harder to roll back than the Husqvarna.
Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of buying a Toro with the Personal Pace drive system. Unless the drive system is adjusted perfectly (and sometimes even if it is), you end up pushing the mower yourself without realizing it.
#14
D
drmax
D
drmax
Most likely going with the Honda the hrx model without the fancy driveshaft unit as long as all 4 wheels have ball bearings. Don't need the 729 unit with the cruise control and blade stop. I'd get onto Honda website to verify the bearings deal but their site is currently downHere's my theory about why the bushings seize: The deck (which is steel) bends over time under the weight of the mower and the stress of going over bumps in the yard. The bushings are attached to the wheel height adjusters, which are attached to the deck. When the deck bends, it throws the bushings out of alignment with the driveshaft and causes the bushings to bind.
The 20+ year old Hondas also had Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. But I think the thick cast aluminum decks were harder to bend than the thinner steel ones on newer Hondas.
The HRX217 also has Teflon bushings on the driveshaft. Since the deck is Nexite, it might not warp as easily. I can't say that for sure though. :confused2:
The Honda drive system is set up in such a way that the wheels are always connected to the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. The Husqvarna, if I remember correctly, disconnects the wheels from the transmission when you pull the mower backwards. Thus, the Honda is harder to roll back than the Husqvarna.
Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of buying a Toro with the Personal Pace drive system. Unless the drive system is adjusted perfectly (and sometimes even if it is), you end up pushing the mower yourself without realizing it.
#15
primerbulb120
All Honda self propelled mowers have driveshafts/axle shafts. And as far as I know, the HRX mowers all use Teflon bushings.
The only Hondas you can buy without driveshafts are the push models.
primerbulb120
Most likely going with the Honda the hrx model without the fancy driveshaft unit as long as all 4 wheels have ball bearings. Don't need the 729 unit with the cruise control and blade stop. I'd get onto Honda website to verify the bearings deal but their site is currently down
All Honda self propelled mowers have driveshafts/axle shafts. And as far as I know, the HRX mowers all use Teflon bushings.
The only Hondas you can buy without driveshafts are the push models.
#16
D
drmax
D
drmax
I thought the ballbearings were inside each wheel on some models, instead of a bushing.All Honda self propelled mowers have driveshafts/axle shafts. And as far as I know, the HRX mowers all use Teflon bushings.
The only Hondas you can buy without driveshafts are the push models.
#17
primerbulb120
primerbulb120
Okay, let me try to clear this up. :laughing:
- Honda HRR series mowers have bearings in the rear wheels and bushings in the front wheels. The driveshaft bushings are the ones that seize, not the wheel bushings.
- Honda HRX series mowers have bearings in all 4 wheels.
- HRR and HRX self propelled mowers ALL use Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. The driveshaft is responsible for transferring power from the gearbox/transmission to the rear wheels. These are the bushings that have a problem with seizing/binding. When they seize, the mower will refuse to roll backwards.
- Honda HRR series mowers have bearings in the rear wheels and bushings in the front wheels. The driveshaft bushings are the ones that seize, not the wheel bushings.
- Honda HRX series mowers have bearings in all 4 wheels.
- HRR and HRX self propelled mowers ALL use Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. The driveshaft is responsible for transferring power from the gearbox/transmission to the rear wheels. These are the bushings that have a problem with seizing/binding. When they seize, the mower will refuse to roll backwards.
#18
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drmax
D
drmax
oh. Thank you for clearing that up. Ok, last thing...I think. Is there a reason the drive shaft xmission unit would be better for $729, vs the belt style xmission for $599? I mean I'm only another $130 away from this other unit. Hate to kick myself laterOkay, let me try to clear this up. :laughing:
- Honda HRR series mowers have bearings in the rear wheels and bushings in the front wheels. The driveshaft bushings are the ones that seize, not the wheel bushings.
- Honda HRX series mowers have bearings in all 4 wheels.
- HRR and HRX self propelled mowers ALL use Teflon bushings on their driveshafts. The driveshaft is responsible for transferring power from the gearbox/transmission to the rear wheels. These are the bushings that have a problem with seizing/binding. When they seize, the mower will refuse to roll backwards.
#19
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deminin
D
deminin
Re: Reliable REAR wheel drive push mower
I've got a Toro "Personal Pace" mower that I use for the smaller spaces, and going around all the tree's,etc., before I get out the rider. I've had it for at least 10 years, and have had virtually no trouble with it. I did notice, once, that the rear wheels wouldn't go "backwards"...they were locked up. I removed the rear wheels,(one bolt) and found gobs of grass clippings built up in/around the gears. After a good cleaning and some grease, the problem was fixed. Now, after each mowing season, I take the wheels off, clean out all the muck, and lube the gears, and its ready for the next season. Mine has a B&S 6.5 HP engine, and it starts up on the 2nd or 3rd pull, and runs great. I especially like the "personal pace" feature, as it mows at whatever speed I chose to walk. You can get these for under $400 at Home Depot.
I have read till I'm numb. Have a fairly small yard...flat. Looking for a dependable "rear" wheel drive mulching mower, in the $350 - $400 range. Big deal for me is the reliability of the drive system. I want variably speed. Engine Honda...gotta has enough HP to keep up with the speed and depth of grass. (not crazy deep, just the norm) Anyone here can either tell me to "stay away" from a brand....or suggest a model, I'd appreciate. Sorta favoring the Honda mower, overall. Thank you.
I've got a Toro "Personal Pace" mower that I use for the smaller spaces, and going around all the tree's,etc., before I get out the rider. I've had it for at least 10 years, and have had virtually no trouble with it. I did notice, once, that the rear wheels wouldn't go "backwards"...they were locked up. I removed the rear wheels,(one bolt) and found gobs of grass clippings built up in/around the gears. After a good cleaning and some grease, the problem was fixed. Now, after each mowing season, I take the wheels off, clean out all the muck, and lube the gears, and its ready for the next season. Mine has a B&S 6.5 HP engine, and it starts up on the 2nd or 3rd pull, and runs great. I especially like the "personal pace" feature, as it mows at whatever speed I chose to walk. You can get these for under $400 at Home Depot.
#20
primerbulb120
The hydrostatic transmission will actually be harder to operate than the belt style unit, especially if you do a lot of stopping, backing, or turning around. It adds an additional control bar and a speed control lever to the handle. You can't adjust speed as fast or easy as with the belt unit. The main selling point of the hydrostatic transmission is that it requires less maintenance and (at least in theory) lasts longer.
The belt style transmission isn't all that hard to maintain, just adjust the cable tension when it starts getting weak and replace the belt when it wears out. And I haven't come across a single Honda with a failed transmission, belt or hydrostatic. I wouldn't spend the extra $130 if I were you. I mow for up to 3 hours on some days and I haven't found a better control system than the Honda Smart Drive.
primerbulb120
oh. Thank you for clearing that up. Ok, last thing...I think. Is there a reason the drive shaft xmission unit would be better for $729, vs the belt style xmission for $599? I mean I'm only another $130 away from this other unit. Hate to kick myself later
The hydrostatic transmission will actually be harder to operate than the belt style unit, especially if you do a lot of stopping, backing, or turning around. It adds an additional control bar and a speed control lever to the handle. You can't adjust speed as fast or easy as with the belt unit. The main selling point of the hydrostatic transmission is that it requires less maintenance and (at least in theory) lasts longer.
The belt style transmission isn't all that hard to maintain, just adjust the cable tension when it starts getting weak and replace the belt when it wears out. And I haven't come across a single Honda with a failed transmission, belt or hydrostatic. I wouldn't spend the extra $130 if I were you. I mow for up to 3 hours on some days and I haven't found a better control system than the Honda Smart Drive.
#21
primerbulb120
primerbulb120
Re: Reliable REAR wheel drive push mower
You can get them cheap at Home Depot, but they aren't built as well as they were 10 years ago. To get a Toro unit comparable to the Hondas, you will have to spend $700+.
I've got a Toro "Personal Pace" mower that I use for the smaller spaces, and going around all the tree's,etc., before I get out the rider. I've had it for at least 10 years, and have had virtually no trouble with it. I did notice, once, that the rear wheels wouldn't go "backwards"...they were locked up. I removed the rear wheels,(one bolt) and found gobs of grass clippings built up in/around the gears. After a good cleaning and some grease, the problem was fixed. Now, after each mowing season, I take the wheels off, clean out all the muck, and lube the gears, and its ready for the next season. Mine has a B&S 6.5 HP engine, and it starts up on the 2nd or 3rd pull, and runs great. I especially like the "personal pace" feature, as it mows at whatever speed I chose to walk. You can get these for under $400 at Home Depot.
You can get them cheap at Home Depot, but they aren't built as well as they were 10 years ago. To get a Toro unit comparable to the Hondas, you will have to spend $700+.
#22
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drmax
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drmax
Thx gents. Will let you know. Got this 25 year old Murray push that was given to me log ago, and 2 teenagers. May just run that till it quits! At least I know what I'll most likely get.