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I was doing my initial oil change on my Raptor SD, and according to the Kawasaki engine manual, you don't change the oil filter, just the oil. Does that make sense? The manual shows the oil bring changed at 8 hours and then again every 100 hours, and the oil filter being changed every 200 hours.



The written instructions back the chart up saying to change the oil at 8 and 100 hours with no mention of the filter, and then the next section is about changing the filter at 200 hours.

I am used to always changing the filter at the same time as the oil. Any idea why Kawasaki would not have you change the filter each time. Makes me wonder since they would sell more filters!

So I followed the instructions and only changed the oil. Made it a quick and easy job with no spilled oil from removing the filter. But I am still scratching my head.

you won't harm anything by changing the filter every time. and i'd prefill the filter with oil before installing. will make less of a dry start, lube wise.

I always change the filter on the first oil change. Then every other oil change.
I change my oil every 50 hours ( 7 days )

turboawd said:

you won't harm anything by changing the filter every time. and i'd prefill the filter with oil before installing. will make less of a dry start, lube wise.

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If people do not know to fill the filter. Then they should not be doing a oil change.
Just saying.

I remember when you changed oil in a car it was recommended to only change the filter every other change. Dang I am showing my age.
Filters are cheep. Change them every oil change.

Well...I'll bite...ive never filled a filter. But I always idle at start up for a few minutes.
So how do you guys fill a filter....then turn it on its side and not have a bunch run back out all over the place. My fastrak is a challenge just getting a dry filter into place with my big hands!
Years ago at work the guys at work took a sick four stroke engine and drained the oil out of it and let it run.... I think it made it a half hour before seizing....

I'm with you Kraky. The filter is in a terrible spot on the RSD. I was trying to figure out how I was going to get the new one on while filled with oil without dumping the oil everywhere!

I decided to follow the manufacturer's instructions and not change the filter. Heck, what do they know...!

I always fill my filter even if some gets spilled .

Carscw said:

I always change the filter on the first oil change. Then every other oil change.
I change my oil every 50 hours ( 7 days )

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I change mine at a 100 hours ,every other weekend I schedule for my guys to be off a Saturday that's when I service everything . Takes half a day if I don't find anything else to fix for all 3 mowers .

RDA.Lawns said:

I change mine at a 100 hours ,every other weekend I schedule for my guys to be off a Saturday that's when I service everything . Takes half a day if I don't find anything else to fix for all 3 mowers .

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I do 50 because I run the older Kohler pro's. And have a lot of hours on them.

Now my work truck I just change the filter once in awhile. As I have to add some oil every few days.

You guys all do as you please, however, you can change the oil filter and leave the oil in the engine and add oil to bring it back to the correct operating level.

Here in lies what you are all doing to your engines. The oil filter becomes contaminated and no longer capable of cleaning the oil. If the oil has carbons, metal fragments and you drain the oil in a horizontal plane such as your mower engines, you will not remove all the fragments, unused fuel, carbons metal contaminants the filter will need to capture at some point.

However, that is NOT going to happen if the filter is not clean enough to capture all those contaminates. The filter is at its best the first 10 minutes and from about that time or even less, it is then fighting an uphill battle to do the job of defending the engine from the contaminates flowing thru the oil.

While I was in the machine shop business I loved all you guys that didn't change the filters often. You kept my machine shop very busy grinding crankshafts, boring cylinders, etc. from all the seriously bad engine oil maintenance I'm reading here.

Change your filters if you don't change the oil.

Have a glorious day.

When I change the filter every time I fill the oil filter then pour the excess back into engine. It is not much. Then put filter on and wipe up the mess.

You're doing it correctly.

My family was in the petroleum business for 5 decades. Owned many other businesses at the same time. All of our businesses required the usage of lubrication materials and filters from oil, to hydraulic, fuel, air, etc. Filters are the first line of defense for your engines. The oil will always enter the filter before leaving the filter for the bearing surfaces and cylinders. Oil is the lubricant, but the filter is your military fighting off all the invaders that want to put your engines, hydraulics intake, etc. into harm's way.

My motto is, do it right the first time, less consequences in the long term.

Just my $0.02 here on this subject of "oil & filter changes",

Ever time I change the oil on an engine, regardless of engine size (cars, trucks, tractors, riding mowers, push mower, etc.) I make it a point to change the oil filter as well (I even change the air filter at the same time too).
The oil filter is there for a specific reason as others have already stated, to remove foreign deposits, etc. to keep the oil as clean as possible. I have always done so and will continue to do so as long as I'm changing the oil on any engine with an oil filter.

It just makes common sense to replace the oil filter when changing the oil. Because the "used oil filter" will contain foreign deposits, etc. and if it is left on the engine, when pouring in the new oil it will definitely become contaminated when it enters the "used oil filter".

Now I'm a firm believer on following the original owners manual on many things (cars, trucks, riding mowers, etc.) but if the manual is instructing you to leave the oil filter on when changing the oil and your questioning and want confirmation on it then might I strongly suggest that you contact the manufacturer directly by either phone or email to get a more direct answer to your question(s)? I recently did this on my new Hustler Raptor on a question I had and got a response back to confirm my question & answer.

Ultimately the choice is yours and yours alone on what you want to do but I know for a fact that, regardless of what the manual says, that would be for me one rare time that I would not follow the instructions and replace the oil filter when changing the oil on your riding mower. Believe me, if you do change it, you definitely won't hurt your engine, as a matter of fact you'll help prolong the engines life.

Good Luck on your decision.

I have been changing my filter every other oil change for over 20 years.
Running 4 mowers now with over 2000 hours. One has over 3000 hours.
So I will continue to do as I have as it works.

Cars,

To be honest, the time it takes a pro to attain their 50 hours is usually in a week or even a month. Fifty hours on oil is no big deal. The time isn't a problem other than the amount of unspent fuel and the hydro-carbons and ash build up within the oil over time. You could probably run a month or more without changing oil. I'd change the filter and keep running the oil in your case rather than the other way round.

On my race cars I changed the filter and two quarts of oil after each 4 second run. I tried more than once changing on the second run. Each time, that cost me an additional 10 grand and that was twenty years ago, those parts are a bunch higher today. Oil filters do ten times the work people are giving them credit for.

However, whatever works for you, I'd keep doing it.

Max

mhavanti said:

Cars, To be honest, the time it takes a pro to attain their 50 hours is usually in a week or even a month. Fifty hours on oil is no big deal. The time isn't a problem other than the amount of unspent fuel and the hydro-carbons and ash build up within the oil over time. You could probably run a month or more without changing oil. I'd change the filter and keep running the oil in your case rather than the other way round. On my race cars I changed the filter and two quarts of oil after each 4 second run. I tried more than once changing on the second run. Each time, that cost me an additional 10 grand and that was twenty years ago, those parts are a bunch higher today. Oil filters do ten times the work people are giving them credit for. However, whatever works for you, I'd keep doing it. Max

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I have one mower that I have not changed the oil in 326 hours. All my mowers run the same engine. So this is kinda a test. Oil is as brown as it was when I put it in. Changed filter at 150 hours. Cut it open and it was clean. I run wix and Napa gold filters.
On my dirt late model I change both oil filters and oil every week. Cheap insurance for a $30.000 engine.

The first time I changed the oil, I did the oil and filter. I didn't fill the filter with oil because a horizontal mounted oil filter will just spill almost all of the oil out anyway. The last time (2nd oil change) I just changed the oil and didn't do the filter. I figure I'll just stick with what the MFG recommends. On any other vehicle I change the oil and filter, and always fill the filter with oil.

My guess is, the manual is miss-marked. I've never seen any manufacturer state not changing an oil filter each time you change the oil. Hydraulics isn't as important to change the filters as often, engines, yes!

My Yamaha motorcycle says every other oil change too.... and the engine oil services the transmission besides the engine!

If I remember right on my old raptor SD......the Hustler owner manual wanted oil and filter changes in one half the time that both Kawasaki and hydro gear recommended.
Just double checked the manual on my Yamaha 1300 V Twin cruiser. They want the oil changed every 4000 miles and the filter every 8000. Figuring an average speed of about 45 mph that 8,000 mile filter change equates to about 175 hours.
And like I said that oil also Services the clutch and transmission...geez. I always liked the magnetic oil drain plugs on those motorcycles though!

I changed the oil and filter at 8 hours and again at 50 hours. Every 50 hours thereafter.

As for pre-filling the filter, place the filter on a level surface with the screw hole side up and fill it about 2/3rds with fresh oil. Allow it to sit a few minutes and the filter will literally absorb the oil. Then you can place the filter on the engine. Basically, you are priming the filter before startup.

I've done this for years with mower equipment and vehicles.

Just for general knowledge. None of the oil change companies prefill the oil filters. They do not have oil in the bay under the car so they can not prefill. Just food for thought.

BlazNT said:

Just for general knowledge. None of the oil change companies prefill the oil filters. They do not have oil in the bay under the car so they can not prefill. Just food for thought.

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and why would they? they don't give a crap about your vehicle. :laughing:

kraky said:

If I remember right on my old raptor SD......the Hustler owner manual wanted oil and filter changes in one half the time that both Kawasaki and hydro gear recommended.
Just double checked the manual on my Yamaha 1300 V Twin cruiser. They want the oil changed every 4000 miles and the filter every 8000. Figuring an average speed of about 45 mph that 8,000 mile filter change equates to about 175 hours.
And like I said that oil also Services the clutch and transmission...geez. I always liked the magnetic oil drain plugs on those motorcycles though!

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But your Yamaha probably never saw anything other than nice level bitumen or concrete.
And the only time it had a chance to injest dust would be .253 seconds as you crossed a soft shoulder leaving a filling station.
When I used to go trail riding it was a new filter almost every ride and an oil change + filter every sason.
If we were in drought it might get fresh oil every 2nd or 3rd ride.
It has a substantially bigger oil pump with metered pressurized oil delivery to almost every moving part.
It has a forged conrod, not a cast one and most likely a Sn-Al-Cu slipper bush on the big end , indium plated.
So you are making a strawberry vs pineapple comparrison.

With all due respect I think you might be the one that made the strawberry versus pineapple comp. Although it did get me to thinking about the differences of where I mow at my house and the air quality at the cabin when I'm mowing. At my house is heavy clay and there is relatively little dust in the air when mowing. At the cabin is sand and there's dust in the air almost all the time....Luckily grass grows very slow there. These kind of variances are probably why some owners manuals talk about normal conditions and extreme conditions?

Yes however the cheapest part you can put into an engine is clean oil.
In case you do not read across the entire forum I suggest you read the thread "cleaning filters with kerosene ".
I am yet to see an engine suffer damage from having oil in it that was too clean.
But I have tossed a lot of engines that customers brought in that had oil which was too dirty.
A lot of them are still running splash lubrication and not fitted with any filter at all.

There is also the conditions of use to consider.
Mower engine sit around for a week , get used for an hour or so then sit around for another week.
Then it goes to a two week cycle then 3 then 4 then 2 months then it is back into mowing season.
The sump on a mower engine is very large in cross section but very shallow in depth thus any deposits in the oil can not harmlessly sing to the bottom of the sump but will get stirred up and reciirculate each & every time you mow.
Thus the relatively small intervals between recommended oil changes.

Being in the jd lawn and ag business for 30 years I saw my share of Horror Stories too. We sold a ton of the single cylinder Kawasaki JD 160 / 180 lawn tractors in our day to farmers who just never seem to get around to maintaining their lawn tractors.
Then they sit all winter long in the Machine Shed with a moist dirt floor.
The first stage of the air cleaner was a mouse nest.... the engine oil was coal black and had the viscosity 2 notches thicker than gear oil.... yet somehow these engines would go year after year after year and never even seem to take a beating.
I guess that was the Good Ol days when Kawasaki had an unbelievable reputation doesn't seem like the new ones are quite so Stellar LOL

Well it goes like this.
Think about how much those engines costed back then and what you earned back then so you can convert the cost of the engine into days of work.
Do the same for a modern engine and now you will suddenly see that the modern engine is around 1/2 to 1/3 of the REAL COST of the engine not the dollar number.
So those older engines were a lot more expensive and there was a lot more profit in making them so they could be made substantially better.

Next we have computers now days and a good operator can model changes in tiny incriments till the part "fails" on the desk simulation so you now get an engine with the thinnest lightest parts that will last the designed service life when looked after properly.
Back then the physical parts had to be made,assebled into an engine then the engines run to destruction, pulled apart, analysed, improved , modified whatever then the new part assembled into another engine and the whole circus starts over.
This costs a small fortune to do.
Thus it was cheaper to over engineer the engines.
This applies to all "Consumer Durables" from car to tooth brushes.
Nothing last as long as it used to unless you buy the absolute top shelf item.
However most of us no longer have the skills to evaluate what is a top shelf item and our decisions get peverted by things like advertising.
AS I have said before, back in 1964 my father paid more ( in hours of labour ) for his base model push mower than most of the big box ride ons cost today.
His old push mower is still running perfectly and the only major part I have replaced is the piston rings once.
My sister still uses it to mow the common grounds around the block of units she lives in.
Even if you knew your push mower will last you 50 years would you pay $ 2500 for one ?
The answer is no you will pay $250 for one that might last 5 years then go shopping for another one when that one starts to play up.
I have a theory that one of the reasons we are so time poor now days is that we will no longer pay for top shelf good so we need to continually replace them and in the case of a mower you can spend more time looking and deciding what to buy than you will using it for the next year if not longer.
Think about it.
The average mowing time down here on a 1/2 to 1/4 acre residential block is 30 hours a year

Your sermon made me do a little bit of a real world snicker....
The next generation of Kawasaki engines after those bullet proof single-cylinder was the liquid-cooled V-Twin.... boy were they smooth and quiet and everybody went out the door just smiling.
Then those cool plastic camshaft gears spit themselves out at about 700 hours.
People came in 12 to 15 years later complaining about what junk jd was because their engine was out.... nobody wanted to hear that in the past, kawasakis engine had been stellar and that John Deere didn't tell them to put a plastic camshaft gear in there! Guessing one of your computer Engineers was to blame! You are correct Engineers are not hired to make things more expensive!

John Deere didn't tell them to put a plastic camshaft gear in there! Guessing one of your computer Engineers was to blame! You are correct Engineers are not hired to make things more expensive!

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Well not directly.
But JD's design team would have told kawakasi they wanted 40,000 engines but were not willing to pay more than $ xxxx and they needed to have a 10 year minimum life span and a 2 year engine warrantee period.
While the price argi bargi happens the engineering department gets called in to submit potential cost saving to the board / GM.
The end result is parts that no longer run forever.

When I first went into business I made the fatal mistake of offering a substantially better service at 2/3 the price of the previous supplier .
All went great for the 2 year period of the contract then when it came time to renegiotae a new one they demanded further reductions in price and a lift in service quality.
By this time we no longer desperately need them so we dropped them and they picked up a new supplier that cost $ 50,000 more than us.
The reason ????
head office demanded a cheaper supply line every year, They wanted to keep us but the senior management needed to show cost savings to the board.
Five years latter we went back in with a contract that allowed 5% price drops .
End result was they paid us a lot lot more than they would have had the original contract been renewed on the original terms.
Another customer did design work for Rothmans & for MacDonnalds both of which provided transport to & from his studio .
Finally he convinced them to allow him to use us but we had to provide him an initial proposal that was substantially higher than our regular prices so he could be seen to have negioated them a "better deal"

Pastor Bert.

I changed the oil and filter initially at 9 hours...a bit after the 5 hour recommendation. The oil was a weird "green/olive" color. All I assumed was that it was some special startup oil from the dealer. I'm glad I changed the filter and got rid of that stuff. I also just slide a shop rag under the oil filter to catch the drainage before I can completely unscrew and remove the filter. It cleans up easily with the rag initially there. Anyone else notice the odd color of their initial oil change?

HSDPilot said:

I changed the oil and filter initially at 9 hours...a bit after the 5 hour recommendation. The oil was a weird "green/olive" color. All I assumed was that it was some special startup oil from the dealer. I'm glad I changed the filter and got rid of that stuff. I also just slide a shop rag under the oil filter to catch the drainage before I can completely unscrew and remove the filter. It cleans up easily with the rag initially there. Anyone else notice the odd color of their initial oil change?

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The weird green stuff you see is "Break in oil"
You definitely want to change the filter the first time you change the oil.
It will be full of Manufacturing metal dust and shavings, not to mention
initial wear of the engine.

My new Kawieee has a 6 year warranty :smile:

Jefferey said:

My new Kawieee has a 6 year warranty :smile:

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Sweet :thumbsup: