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Oil Change
#1
I
indio51
I
indio51
With my new "Freedom Z" with the Kohler 7000 Series 22 hp (KT725) owners manual says any of the new oils w/detergent even synthetic oil can be used. Has anyone tried synthetic such as Royal Purple? What are your thoughts on this?
#2
tigercat
tigercat
Oils are a wild subject sometimes!
I don't use synthetic oils because I believe I change my oils and filter often enough (once a year or every 30 - 40 hrs). You see, even basic oil has additives that make the oil protect your engine. So there is to a lesser degree synthetic oil in basic oil. Also, I never scrapped an engine because of an oil related issue.
Now that I said that I will be chased down and beaten up....
But if you like to run synthetic oils in your machine it won't hurt a thing. It may give your engine longer life if you run them harder and longer than I do. If you run synthetic then you can get longer run times between oil change intervals (change you oil every 80 hrs or so).
So if you mow more than I because of where you live, then go synthetic just to extend your oil change intervals. Otherwise, I feel it's not worth the extra money. IMHO.
I don't use synthetic oils because I believe I change my oils and filter often enough (once a year or every 30 - 40 hrs). You see, even basic oil has additives that make the oil protect your engine. So there is to a lesser degree synthetic oil in basic oil. Also, I never scrapped an engine because of an oil related issue.
Now that I said that I will be chased down and beaten up....
But if you like to run synthetic oils in your machine it won't hurt a thing. It may give your engine longer life if you run them harder and longer than I do. If you run synthetic then you can get longer run times between oil change intervals (change you oil every 80 hrs or so).
So if you mow more than I because of where you live, then go synthetic just to extend your oil change intervals. Otherwise, I feel it's not worth the extra money. IMHO.
#3
L
Lrobby99
L
Lrobby99
There may be some people who like purple oil, but I am not one. The thing about normal oil is you can easily see when if its dirty. As for synthetic vs Dino, the choice and expense is all yours. Just get the correct viscosity and away you go.
#4
M
Mad Mackie
M
Mad Mackie
What are the recommendations in the Kohler 7000 series operators manual??
Kohler operators manuals are available on line.
Kohler operators manuals are available on line.
#5
M
motoman
M
motoman
Oil subject will nevery die. Early on in this foum I argued that non synthetic will cool just as well and met strong resistance. I still believe that , but the coupons for oil at 59 cents /qt disappeared so now I just put 5W-30 synthetic in my Intek out of ease of access (use it in my Nissan). It uses a little but otherwise happy. I always check level before starting and , of course, monitor the oil pressure gauge (50 psi startup, 35-40 hot run) and oil temp gauge. It has been documented that thin oil cools better. (OK I am now running from the mob sure to chase me):smile:
#6
Ric
You wont get resistance from me, I agree. I use Mobil Super 5000 10w30 and have for years and never had any oil related issues and I've run it in Kohlers, Kawasaki and Honda Engines. Just change every 50 hours with filter and you wont have any problems.
Ric
Oil subject will nevery die. Early on in this foum I argued that non synthetic will cool just as well and met strong resistance. I still believe that , but the coupons for oil at 59 cents /qt disappeared so now I just put 5W-30 synthetic in my Intek out of ease of access (use it in my Nissan). It uses a little but otherwise happy. I always check level before starting and , of course, monitor the oil pressure gauge (50 psi startup, 35-40 hot run) and oil temp gauge. It has been documented that thin oil cools better. (OK I am now running from the mob sure to chase me):smile:
You wont get resistance from me, I agree. I use Mobil Super 5000 10w30 and have for years and never had any oil related issues and I've run it in Kohlers, Kawasaki and Honda Engines. Just change every 50 hours with filter and you wont have any problems.
#7
tigercat
That's one thing I always do is change the oil filter at every oil change. I just can't see leaving some dirty oil behind. In real word it may not matter, but it's how I feel about it.
tigercat
You wont get resistance from me, I agree. I use Mobil Super 5000 10w30 and have for years and never had any oil related issues and I've run it in Kohlers, Kawasaki and Honda Engines. Just change every 50 hours with filter and you wont have any problems.
That's one thing I always do is change the oil filter at every oil change. I just can't see leaving some dirty oil behind. In real word it may not matter, but it's how I feel about it.
#8
RedEyedRooster
RedEyedRooster
I use Shell Rotella T 10w30 heavy duty conventional motor oil in my air cooled engines and a Wix 57035 filter fits them all.
#9
7394
7394
If you do decide to use full syn, I would suggest keeping it on dino-oil for the first 50 hours, so everything can seat & break in properly. Then do your thing.
#10
F
ferrisbuehler16
F
ferrisbuehler16
I have a Scag Freedom Z with B&S engine....for the life of me I cannot find what the engine oil capacity is and the type. Any help? and oil filter size?
#11
L
Luffydog
L
Luffydog
I don't like using synthetic oil on new engines since it is mainly for higher mileage engines. I won't allow an engine to properly break in. Just my thinking.
#12
cpurvis
You've got three identical posts on this. You don't need to flood the forum with posts on the same question.
It's also just as easy for you to do the internet search for an answer as it is for someone else.
cpurvis
I have a Scag Freedom Z with B&S engine....for the life of me I cannot find what the engine oil capacity is and the type. Any help? and oil filter size?
You've got three identical posts on this. You don't need to flood the forum with posts on the same question.
It's also just as easy for you to do the internet search for an answer as it is for someone else.
#13
F
ferrisbuehler16
I’ve done research and can’t find it
F
ferrisbuehler16
You've got three identical posts on this. You don't need to flood the forum with posts on the same question.
It's also just as easy for you to do the internet search for an answer as it is for someone else.
I’ve done research and can’t find it
#14
tigercat
tigercat
SAE 30 would be a good choice. I run Royal Purple full synthetic. I don't know the amount needed, but I'd guess 2-3 quarts with filter. Add some and check it, add more check it again. Fire it up to fill up the filter, then top it off.
Once you know the level, right it on the wall or something, then next time there is less checking.:smile:
Once you know the level, right it on the wall or something, then next time there is less checking.:smile:
#15
F
ferrisbuehler16
Thank you. So not a 15w30 or something like that?
F
ferrisbuehler16
SAE 30 would be a good choice. I run Royal Purple full synthetic. I don't know the amount needed, but I'd guess 2-3 quarts with filter. Add some and check it, add more check it again. Fire it up to fill up the filter, then top it off.
Once you know the level, right it on the wall or something, then next time there is less checking.:smile:
Thank you. So not a 15w30 or something like that?
#16
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Plain and simple, multi-viscosity oils are not necessary unless you plan to operate when outside air temperatures (cold engine temp) are below 50 degrees f. If you plan to run it when colder than that, use 10w-30. This comes directly from the engine manual from your engine.
As for synthetic, it isn't necessary either. Small engine oils are specifically formulated for small, air cooled, engines and therefore using anything else will likely show you no noticeable improvement in how the equipment runs.
Routine maintenance in itself, is so much more important than what oil you run. I have a Briggs V-twin with over 500 hours on it, always gets Briggs Filter and Briggs SAE 30 oil and after each summer the engine has not burned a drop of oil, and it is still golden yellow/brown after 50 hours of run time. I flush the oil with every change and I only run non-ethanol 90 octane, but I do that with ALL of my.small engine powered equipment.
As for synthetic, it isn't necessary either. Small engine oils are specifically formulated for small, air cooled, engines and therefore using anything else will likely show you no noticeable improvement in how the equipment runs.
Routine maintenance in itself, is so much more important than what oil you run. I have a Briggs V-twin with over 500 hours on it, always gets Briggs Filter and Briggs SAE 30 oil and after each summer the engine has not burned a drop of oil, and it is still golden yellow/brown after 50 hours of run time. I flush the oil with every change and I only run non-ethanol 90 octane, but I do that with ALL of my.small engine powered equipment.
#17
jekjr
jekjr
We run Walmart Super Tech 10W30. Been running it for several years. No problems. We have three Tiger Cats with Kawasaki 22 hp engines. Try to change them at 50 hours but some times it goes a good bit longer. We always change oil and filter at the same time.
I have one that has 1700+ hours on it. One that is in the 1000 hour range and one that is around 750 hours. If it will deliver that for under the conditions we run them then I don't believe anybody on this forum runs em any harder than we do cutting Pensacola Bahia grass in the Southern heat of South Alabama.
I have one that has 1700+ hours on it. One that is in the 1000 hour range and one that is around 750 hours. If it will deliver that for under the conditions we run them then I don't believe anybody on this forum runs em any harder than we do cutting Pensacola Bahia grass in the Southern heat of South Alabama.
#18
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yep,
When it come to motor oils the most important thing is how long it has been in there.
Everything else runs a poor second.
A cheap oil changed regularly is a lot better then an expensive oil left in for too long.
Ideally mower oil should be changed at the end of every season.
When it come to motor oils the most important thing is how long it has been in there.
Everything else runs a poor second.
A cheap oil changed regularly is a lot better then an expensive oil left in for too long.
Ideally mower oil should be changed at the end of every season.
#19
jekjr
The higher price oil sells for normally the more successful their advertising campaign has been. If it has the certifications on the bottle it is good oil.
jekjr
Yep,
When it come to motor oils the most important thing is how long it has been in there.
Everything else runs a poor second.
A cheap oil changed regularly is a lot better then an expensive oil left in for too long.
Ideally mower oil should be changed at the end of every season.
The higher price oil sells for normally the more successful their advertising campaign has been. If it has the certifications on the bottle it is good oil.
#20
mcdonell
I am convinced that changing at 50 hrs is the way to go. jekjr has proved Walmart oil has worked well with his 3 commercial run rigs.
My Cheetah 27 hp Kawasaki recommends 40 weight oil in the ambient temps I mow. Guess I paid too much for oil with the case of Royal Purple 40wt I bought for the Scag. I will file all this away for future reference.
mcdonell
We run Walmart Super Tech 10W30. Been running it for several years. No problems. We have three Tiger Cats with Kawasaki 22 hp engines. Try to change them at 50 hours but some times it goes a good bit longer. We always change oil and filter at the same time.
I have one that has 1700+ hours on it. One that is in the 1000 hour range and one that is around 750 hours. If it will deliver that for under the conditions we run them then I don't believe anybody on this forum runs em any harder than we do cutting Pensacola Bahia grass in the Southern heat of South Alabama.
I am convinced that changing at 50 hrs is the way to go. jekjr has proved Walmart oil has worked well with his 3 commercial run rigs.
My Cheetah 27 hp Kawasaki recommends 40 weight oil in the ambient temps I mow. Guess I paid too much for oil with the case of Royal Purple 40wt I bought for the Scag. I will file all this away for future reference.
#21
cpurvis
cpurvis
Many people believe that 'commercial' operators, i.e., those that use their equipment every day, put their equipment through more strenuous paces than the non-commercial user.
I don't believe that is true.
They run their equipment at wide-open throttle; so does the homeowner.
The difference is that they use the equipment more hours on in a day than the homeowner. But that isn't a bad thing.
In 8 hours of run time, the commercial mower will barely get a chance to cool off. That's basically one thermal cycle. In 8 hours of run time on the homeowner's equipment, it could be four (or more) thermal cycles. Once an engine is up to temperature, very little wear occurs. Also, the homeowner's equipment has enough time between cycles that it "drains dry," that is, the lubricated wear surfaces of the engine have had days to shed their oil coating. That's one of the reasons why the saying "sitting does equipment no good" is true.
I don't believe that is true.
They run their equipment at wide-open throttle; so does the homeowner.
The difference is that they use the equipment more hours on in a day than the homeowner. But that isn't a bad thing.
In 8 hours of run time, the commercial mower will barely get a chance to cool off. That's basically one thermal cycle. In 8 hours of run time on the homeowner's equipment, it could be four (or more) thermal cycles. Once an engine is up to temperature, very little wear occurs. Also, the homeowner's equipment has enough time between cycles that it "drains dry," that is, the lubricated wear surfaces of the engine have had days to shed their oil coating. That's one of the reasons why the saying "sitting does equipment no good" is true.
#22
jekjr
I tell you what put 500 or so hours a year on one cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass on a two week cycle and after three or four years of that tell me how it works out for you with a non commercial mower. The engines take a pounding and the rest of the mower takes a pounding a well. Abuse is not a strong enough word for the three I run. Assaulted is more like it.
jekjr
Many people believe that 'commercial' operators, i.e., those that use their equipment every day, put their equipment through more strenuous paces than the non-commercial user.
I don't believe that is true.
They run their equipment at wide-open throttle; so does the homeowner.
The difference is that they use the equipment more hours on in a day than the homeowner. But that isn't a bad thing.
In 8 hours of run time, the commercial mower will barely get a chance to cool off. That's basically one thermal cycle. In 8 hours of run time on the homeowner's equipment, it could be four (or more) thermal cycles. Once an engine is up to temperature, very little wear occurs. Also, the homeowner's equipment has enough time between cycles that it "drains dry," that is, the lubricated wear surfaces of the engine have had days to shed their oil coating. That's one of the reasons why the saying "sitting does equipment no good" is true.
I tell you what put 500 or so hours a year on one cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass on a two week cycle and after three or four years of that tell me how it works out for you with a non commercial mower. The engines take a pounding and the rest of the mower takes a pounding a well. Abuse is not a strong enough word for the three I run. Assaulted is more like it.
#23
BlazNT
jekjr
I run a Husqvarna RZ5424 and have been for 4 years. I put around 400 hours a year on it. I purchased it new in 2007. Mowed my own yard till I started making money with it and just passed it down to my boys to mow their own lawn. 1782 hours and still ticking. Maintenance is what keeps a mower working. I have never replaced a single piece except for the battery tray. It is just a bad design for the work I put it through. Oh and 2 sets of spindles. 1st set I thought the stump was lower and 2nd set I did not see the buried wire.
BlazNT
I tell you what put 500 or so hours a year on one cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass on a two week cycle and after three or four years of that tell me how it works out for you with a non commercial mower. The engines take a pounding and the rest of the mower takes a pounding a well. Abuse is not a strong enough word for the three I run. Assaulted is more like it.
jekjr
I run a Husqvarna RZ5424 and have been for 4 years. I put around 400 hours a year on it. I purchased it new in 2007. Mowed my own yard till I started making money with it and just passed it down to my boys to mow their own lawn. 1782 hours and still ticking. Maintenance is what keeps a mower working. I have never replaced a single piece except for the battery tray. It is just a bad design for the work I put it through. Oh and 2 sets of spindles. 1st set I thought the stump was lower and 2nd set I did not see the buried wire.
#24
cpurvis
No, you missed the whole point.
What I was saying was to compare you and your mower putting on 500 hours a year cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass versus a homeowner with the exact same mower as yours cutting the same Pensacola Bahia Grass putting on 50 hours per year. By the time he gets to 500 hours on his mower, it'll be in worse shape than yours was at 500 hours.
cpurvis
I tell you what put 500 or so hours a year on one cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass on a two week cycle and after three or four years of that tell me how it works out for you with a non commercial mower. The engines take a pounding and the rest of the mower takes a pounding a well. Abuse is not a strong enough word for the three I run. Assaulted is more like it.
No, you missed the whole point.
What I was saying was to compare you and your mower putting on 500 hours a year cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass versus a homeowner with the exact same mower as yours cutting the same Pensacola Bahia Grass putting on 50 hours per year. By the time he gets to 500 hours on his mower, it'll be in worse shape than yours was at 500 hours.
#25
B
bertsmobile1
Only if the home owner does not maintain their mower.
The heat cycles would not be significant unless the home owner's lawn is so small the mower never gets to full operating temperature.
The big difference is most commercial operators swap or sharpen blades daily if not weekly.
Daily they check the oil and Weekly they lube the mower, usually including all of places that need a drop of oil.
OTOH , home owners do not usually cut wet grass, mow in the rain, mow in 100 deg heat or allow their mowers to get wet
They dont drive in up & down loading ramps ( which always seem to catch the deck somewhere ) or leave it sitting in the strong summer sun for hours.
Commercial mowers have 1 speed flat out cause time is money & schedules must be kept.
Commercial mowers have to cut everything to within a line trimmers distance of walls, trees & fences cause they can not afford the time to do an edge run with the trimmer then a wider edge run with the walk behind.
Commercial operators are mowing different laws every day so get caught out with stuff in the grass that they did not see a lot more than home owners so i would agree a commercial mower takes a pounding, they just get looked after better.
Home owners seem to think because they paid $ 10,000 for a mower, they MUST be able to just jump on and mow without even checking the oil
Home owners seem to think "proper maintenance" is filling the fuel tank from a real mower can.
B
bertsmobile1
No, you missed the whole point.
What I was saying was to compare you and your mower putting on 500 hours a year cutting Pensacola Bahia Grass versus a homeowner with the exact same mower as yours cutting the same Pensacola Bahia Grass putting on 50 hours per year. By the time he gets to 500 hours on his mower, it'll be in worse shape than yours was at 500 hours.
Only if the home owner does not maintain their mower.
The heat cycles would not be significant unless the home owner's lawn is so small the mower never gets to full operating temperature.
The big difference is most commercial operators swap or sharpen blades daily if not weekly.
Daily they check the oil and Weekly they lube the mower, usually including all of places that need a drop of oil.
OTOH , home owners do not usually cut wet grass, mow in the rain, mow in 100 deg heat or allow their mowers to get wet
They dont drive in up & down loading ramps ( which always seem to catch the deck somewhere ) or leave it sitting in the strong summer sun for hours.
Commercial mowers have 1 speed flat out cause time is money & schedules must be kept.
Commercial mowers have to cut everything to within a line trimmers distance of walls, trees & fences cause they can not afford the time to do an edge run with the trimmer then a wider edge run with the walk behind.
Commercial operators are mowing different laws every day so get caught out with stuff in the grass that they did not see a lot more than home owners so i would agree a commercial mower takes a pounding, they just get looked after better.
Home owners seem to think because they paid $ 10,000 for a mower, they MUST be able to just jump on and mow without even checking the oil
Home owners seem to think "proper maintenance" is filling the fuel tank from a real mower can.
#26
Sweats
Sweats
So I just couldn't help it. I asked 16 coworkers if they use a trimmer, then a walk behind, then a rider. Zero do (although a couple don't have lawns). Also, of the few of us who paid in the vicinity of $10,000 for our mowers, all approach preventive maintenance seriously. Not to hijack the post, but maybe things were getting a little out of hand there for a minute.
#27
B
bertsmobile1
No arguemants about that.
The commercials get serviced on a monthly basis, I do them overnight for the contractors and we plan replacements before things break down, so spindle bearings get done well before they fail on the job and when spindles get done, the ldlers get done as well.
I am about to go & replace the spindle pulley on a Craftsman 1500 that was not only split in two but the owner had run like that for at least a month and only called me in because the belt finally got shreaded where as I have never replaced a broken belt on a commercial customers mower.
B
bertsmobile1
So I just couldn't help it. I asked 16 coworkers if they use a trimmer, then a walk behind, then a rider. Zero do (although a couple don't have lawns). Also, of the few of us who paid in the vicinity of $10,000 for our mowers, all approach preventive maintenance seriously. Not to hijack the post, but maybe things were getting a little out of hand there for a minute.
No arguemants about that.
The commercials get serviced on a monthly basis, I do them overnight for the contractors and we plan replacements before things break down, so spindle bearings get done well before they fail on the job and when spindles get done, the ldlers get done as well.
I am about to go & replace the spindle pulley on a Craftsman 1500 that was not only split in two but the owner had run like that for at least a month and only called me in because the belt finally got shreaded where as I have never replaced a broken belt on a commercial customers mower.
#28
Richandtd
For 11 years I’ve used a John Deere x324 at year 8 I started using royal Purple and the mower runs quieter so I keep using it changing once a year and I mow 4 acres a week.
Richandtd
No arguemants about that.
The commercials get serviced on a monthly basis, I do them overnight for the contractors and we plan replacements before things break down, so spindle bearings get done well before they fail on the job and when spindles get done, the ldlers get done as well.
I am about to go & replace the spindle pulley on a Craftsman 1500 that was not only split in two but the owner had run like that for at least a month and only called me in because the belt finally got shreaded where as I have never replaced a broken belt on a commercial customers mower.
For 11 years I’ve used a John Deere x324 at year 8 I started using royal Purple and the mower runs quieter so I keep using it changing once a year and I mow 4 acres a week.
#29
M
MontecarloSS
Contradictory don't you think?
M
MontecarloSS
Oils are a wild subject sometimes!
I don't use synthetic oils because I believe I change my oils and filter often enough (once a year or every 30 - 40 hrs). You see, even basic oil has additives that make the oil protect your engine. So there is to a lesser degree synthetic oil in basic oil. Also, I never scrapped an engine because of an oil related issue.
Now that I said that I will be chased down and beaten up....
But if you like to run synthetic oils in your machine it won't hurt a thing. It may give your engine longer life if you run them harder and longer than I do. If you run synthetic then you can get longer run times between oil change intervals (change you oil every 80 hrs or so).
So if you mow more than I because of where you live, then go synthetic just to extend your oil change intervals. Otherwise, I feel it's not worth the extra money. IMHO.
SAE 30 would be a good choice. I run Royal Purple full synthetic. I don't know the amount needed, but I'd guess 2-3 quarts with filter. Add some and check it, add more check it again. Fire it up to fill up the filter, then top it off.
Once you know the level, right it on the wall or something, then next time there is less checking.:smile:
Contradictory don't you think?
#30
TonyPrin
Synthetic motor oil is superior to conventional oil and there is no debate about that from anyone familiar with them both. Synthetic oil offers superior viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants. Royal Purple is a good synthetic oil - superior to conventional - but I believe there are better choices. Consider instead Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, or Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Just make certain it's full synthetic, not a blend.
The price differential can be minimal to non-existent. I recently purchased 5 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum at Walmart for $25. Pennzoil offered a $10 rebate so I only paid $15 or $3 per quart.
Having said all that, use conventional oil during break-in.
TonyPrin
With my new "Freedom Z" with the Kohler 7000 Series 22 hp (KT725) owners manual says any of the new oils w/detergent even synthetic oil can be used. Has anyone tried synthetic such as Royal Purple? What are your thoughts on this?
Synthetic motor oil is superior to conventional oil and there is no debate about that from anyone familiar with them both. Synthetic oil offers superior viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants. Royal Purple is a good synthetic oil - superior to conventional - but I believe there are better choices. Consider instead Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, or Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Just make certain it's full synthetic, not a blend.
The price differential can be minimal to non-existent. I recently purchased 5 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum at Walmart for $25. Pennzoil offered a $10 rebate so I only paid $15 or $3 per quart.
Having said all that, use conventional oil during break-in.
#31
cpurvis
Ok...but just how much better viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants will you get with synthetic oil? I have yet to meet the person who was mourning the loss of his engine due to oil-related failure because they didn't use synthetic. I've also never seen any quantification of the benefits, such as, "you can expect your engine to last 2,000 hours if you use conventional oil but you can expect 2,500 hours if you use synthetic" especially in something like a lawnmower engine.
If any independent lab has done comparable test-to-failure testing, synthetic vs conventional, I'd like to see it. The oil manufacturers will tout a "benefit" even if it's only .01% and not be lying...they're just not saying how how much, if any, benefit there will be to the end user in the real world.
It's one thing to say that using a particular product gives "peace of mind" but if you're going to say it's "superior" to another product in this way or that, there has to be some data, somewhere, to back that up. And that data needs to come from independent testing or the field, not the manufacturer's marketing department.
cpurvis
Synthetic motor oil is superior to conventional oil and there is no debate about that from anyone familiar with them both. Synthetic oil offers superior viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants. Royal Purple is a good synthetic oil - superior to conventional - but I believe there are better choices. Consider instead Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, or Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Just make certain it's full synthetic, not a blend.
The price differential can be minimal to non-existent. I recently purchased 5 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum at Walmart for $25. Pennzoil offered a $10 rebate so I only paid $15 or $3 per quart.
Having said all that, use conventional oil during break-in.
Ok...but just how much better viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants will you get with synthetic oil? I have yet to meet the person who was mourning the loss of his engine due to oil-related failure because they didn't use synthetic. I've also never seen any quantification of the benefits, such as, "you can expect your engine to last 2,000 hours if you use conventional oil but you can expect 2,500 hours if you use synthetic" especially in something like a lawnmower engine.
If any independent lab has done comparable test-to-failure testing, synthetic vs conventional, I'd like to see it. The oil manufacturers will tout a "benefit" even if it's only .01% and not be lying...they're just not saying how how much, if any, benefit there will be to the end user in the real world.
It's one thing to say that using a particular product gives "peace of mind" but if you're going to say it's "superior" to another product in this way or that, there has to be some data, somewhere, to back that up. And that data needs to come from independent testing or the field, not the manufacturer's marketing department.
#32
TonyPrin
To the contrary, tests are done all time - by independent organizations, scientifically and in a laboratory setting. You obviously care about this so I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. I'm not involved with PQIA but I believe they routinely test motor oils and other petroleum products such as transmission and hydraulic fluids. Over time they'll test just about every motor oil on the market after buying the product at retail - not from samples given to them.
Among the tests they conduct is the D2896 TBN (Total Base Number), which measures a motor oil's ability to neutralize acidic materials and other contaminants. Conventional motor oils generally have a TBN of around 6-8 while synthetics are around 8-11. Another test is the D2270 Viscosity Index (VI). The lower the VI the greater the change in viscosity due to temperature changes. Conventional motor oils generally have a VI average 160 while synthetics are often in the 170s.
Having said that, I recognize that we're talking about lawnmowers, not race cars. But, there is no doubt synthetics are better than conventional motor oils at what they do which is lubricate under varying conditions.
TonyPrin
Ok...but just how much better viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants will you get with synthetic oil? I have yet to meet the person who was mourning the loss of his engine due to oil-related failure because they didn't use synthetic. I've also never seen any quantification of the benefits, such as, "you can expect your engine to last 2,000 hours if you use conventional oil but you can expect 2,500 hours if you use synthetic" especially in something like a lawnmower engine.
If any independent lab has done comparable test-to-failure testing, synthetic vs conventional, I'd like to see it. The oil manufacturers will tout a "benefit" even if it's only .01% and not be lying...they're just not saying how how much, if any, benefit there will be to the end user in the real world.
It's one thing to say that using a particular product gives "peace of mind" but if you're going to say it's "superior" to another product in this way or that, there has to be some data, somewhere, to back that up. And that data needs to come from independent testing or the field, not the manufacturer's marketing department.
To the contrary, tests are done all time - by independent organizations, scientifically and in a laboratory setting. You obviously care about this so I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. I'm not involved with PQIA but I believe they routinely test motor oils and other petroleum products such as transmission and hydraulic fluids. Over time they'll test just about every motor oil on the market after buying the product at retail - not from samples given to them.
Among the tests they conduct is the D2896 TBN (Total Base Number), which measures a motor oil's ability to neutralize acidic materials and other contaminants. Conventional motor oils generally have a TBN of around 6-8 while synthetics are around 8-11. Another test is the D2270 Viscosity Index (VI). The lower the VI the greater the change in viscosity due to temperature changes. Conventional motor oils generally have a VI average 160 while synthetics are often in the 170s.
Having said that, I recognize that we're talking about lawnmowers, not race cars. But, there is no doubt synthetics are better than conventional motor oils at what they do which is lubricate under varying conditions.
#33
cpurvis
cpurvis
That's fine, but where are the real world results? Not "synthetic maintains its base number better", which is a measure of the alkalinity of oil. That sounds good, but where are the concrete results of engines failing prematurely because the operator didn't use synthetic oil?
I've been around a lot of engines and I haven't seen an oil related failure for decades whether synthetic or conventional oil was used. The ones I've seen fail have been from things like a ruptured air filter, loss of coolant, and metallurgical failures such as camshafts breaking in two.
Briggs is advertising "no oil change" engines now. I don't know what they're basing this on, but I suspect they've found out that engines that require constant replenishment of oil maintain their viscosity, TBN, and lubricity well enough that changing oil is a waste of time and oil. Caterpillar knew this 25 years ago and provided OCI's for their truck engines (3406 series) that were dependent upon how much 'make-up' oil was needed per 1000 miles. The filter change interval wasn't affected.
In Briggs case, it could be that they expect the engine to fly apart before the initial oil change is reached. (That's a joke, son, I say, a joke.)
I've been around a lot of engines and I haven't seen an oil related failure for decades whether synthetic or conventional oil was used. The ones I've seen fail have been from things like a ruptured air filter, loss of coolant, and metallurgical failures such as camshafts breaking in two.
Briggs is advertising "no oil change" engines now. I don't know what they're basing this on, but I suspect they've found out that engines that require constant replenishment of oil maintain their viscosity, TBN, and lubricity well enough that changing oil is a waste of time and oil. Caterpillar knew this 25 years ago and provided OCI's for their truck engines (3406 series) that were dependent upon how much 'make-up' oil was needed per 1000 miles. The filter change interval wasn't affected.
In Briggs case, it could be that they expect the engine to fly apart before the initial oil change is reached. (That's a joke, son, I say, a joke.)
#34
TonyPrin
You won't readily see an engine fail because of using conventional versus synthetic oil, just like you'll never see an engine fail for using 5w-30 instead of 10w-30 or for using cheap oil instead of a quality brand, or for using 97 octane instead of 99.
Here's what I can say, though. If you ran an engine with conventional oil and an identical engine with synthetic oil continually until one died, the conventional would go first. Almost every time.
So, the point is which would you use in a machine that costs thousands? Given that the cost of conventional and synthetic oil is close to comparable, I believe most people would select synthetic. After all, it is SUPERIOR.
TonyPrin
Sorry, but not exactly correct. TBN represents the ability of a motor oil to withstand acidity over time. Once a motor oil is unable to overcome acidity, the engine can begin to corrode. That's not just theoretical. Synthetics are better able to sustain their composition which reduces the risk of harm from corrosion.That's fine, but where are the real world results? Not "synthetic maintains its base number better", which is a measure of the alkalinity of oil. That sounds good, but where are the concrete results of engines failing prematurely because the operator didn't use synthetic oil?
You won't readily see an engine fail because of using conventional versus synthetic oil, just like you'll never see an engine fail for using 5w-30 instead of 10w-30 or for using cheap oil instead of a quality brand, or for using 97 octane instead of 99.
Here's what I can say, though. If you ran an engine with conventional oil and an identical engine with synthetic oil continually until one died, the conventional would go first. Almost every time.
So, the point is which would you use in a machine that costs thousands? Given that the cost of conventional and synthetic oil is close to comparable, I believe most people would select synthetic. After all, it is SUPERIOR.
#35
B
bertsmobile1
Lab testing of anything from condoms to rocket ships is not PERFORMANCE testing.
They are a set of fake conditions that never occur in normal use for the purpose of evaluating changes made to a product and for a very limited number of cases evaluating one product to another.
Nowhere in your engine dose a 1/2 diameter ball bearing get jambed into a rotating plate till the pressure on the plate causes it to stop.
Nowhere in your engine does a pool of oil dribble through a funnel under nothing more than the force of gravity at 25 Deg C and 100 Deg C
No where in your engine does 2 steel disks with a spiral cut into them rotating in opposite direction come together tiil one applies a pre determined drag on the other.
Now when it come to lawnmowers,
No oil company one sticks an engine in a very dry & dusty enviroment and run them to destruction or for a set number of hours and then pull them down and measure every part for wear.
In fact because air cooled engines is such a small section of the market very little work gets done on them apart from what the actual manufacturers do.
Substituting one type of oil for another can be a benefit and it can also be a disaster if the viscosity is so low and the fluidity is so high that they can not maintain an oil film between the conrod & crankshaft because the original clearences is too big.
This is in particular a problem for old side bangers where the oil flow is all splash the the lube to the top bush is from a well but the thinner lower viscosity oil drains too fast so any more the 2 minutes driving across a slope siezes the top bush.
There is nothing magic about synthetic oils and they are not synthetic .
All that has happened is technology has now allowed the oil refineries to do what the four companies have been doing for the past 50 years.
The oil is broken down into its component parts then reassembled ( blended ) back together without all the bits that are bad for the intended purpose and the good bits in relative ratios to again optimising the performance FOR THE SPECIFIC application it is blended for.
doing this is actually cheaper than the old methods of just taking out what you don't want the tossing in a package of extra stuff.
However it gets hyped up and sold at a premium to al of the turkeys stupid enough to believe the bull dust they are fed on.
B
bertsmobile1
Ok...but just how much better viscosity, wear protection, and fluidity over a range of temperatures, with reduced contaminants will you get with synthetic oil? I have yet to meet the person who was mourning the loss of his engine due to oil-related failure because they didn't use synthetic. I've also never seen any quantification of the benefits, such as, "you can expect your engine to last 2,000 hours if you use conventional oil but you can expect 2,500 hours if you use synthetic" especially in something like a lawnmower engine.
If any independent lab has done comparable test-to-failure testing, synthetic vs conventional, I'd like to see it. The oil manufacturers will tout a "benefit" even if it's only .01% and not be lying...they're just not saying how how much, if any, benefit there will be to the end user in the real world.
It's one thing to say that using a particular product gives "peace of mind" but if you're going to say it's "superior" to another product in this way or that, there has to be some data, somewhere, to back that up. And that data needs to come from independent testing or the field, not the manufacturer's marketing department.
Lab testing of anything from condoms to rocket ships is not PERFORMANCE testing.
They are a set of fake conditions that never occur in normal use for the purpose of evaluating changes made to a product and for a very limited number of cases evaluating one product to another.
Nowhere in your engine dose a 1/2 diameter ball bearing get jambed into a rotating plate till the pressure on the plate causes it to stop.
Nowhere in your engine does a pool of oil dribble through a funnel under nothing more than the force of gravity at 25 Deg C and 100 Deg C
No where in your engine does 2 steel disks with a spiral cut into them rotating in opposite direction come together tiil one applies a pre determined drag on the other.
Now when it come to lawnmowers,
No oil company one sticks an engine in a very dry & dusty enviroment and run them to destruction or for a set number of hours and then pull them down and measure every part for wear.
In fact because air cooled engines is such a small section of the market very little work gets done on them apart from what the actual manufacturers do.
Substituting one type of oil for another can be a benefit and it can also be a disaster if the viscosity is so low and the fluidity is so high that they can not maintain an oil film between the conrod & crankshaft because the original clearences is too big.
This is in particular a problem for old side bangers where the oil flow is all splash the the lube to the top bush is from a well but the thinner lower viscosity oil drains too fast so any more the 2 minutes driving across a slope siezes the top bush.
There is nothing magic about synthetic oils and they are not synthetic .
All that has happened is technology has now allowed the oil refineries to do what the four companies have been doing for the past 50 years.
The oil is broken down into its component parts then reassembled ( blended ) back together without all the bits that are bad for the intended purpose and the good bits in relative ratios to again optimising the performance FOR THE SPECIFIC application it is blended for.
doing this is actually cheaper than the old methods of just taking out what you don't want the tossing in a package of extra stuff.
However it gets hyped up and sold at a premium to al of the turkeys stupid enough to believe the bull dust they are fed on.
#36
cpurvis
cpurvis
Did you arrived at this conclusion through either your own experience or data provided by others? Can you share that with us? Please don't recite the unsubstantiated benefits touted by the synthetic oil marketersSorry, but not exactly correct. TBN represents the ability of a motor oil to withstand acidity over time. Once a motor oil is unable to overcome acidity, the engine can begin to corrode. That's not just theoretical. Synthetics are better able to sustain their composition which reduces the risk of harm from corrosion.
You won't readily see an engine fail because of using conventional versus synthetic oil, just like you'll never see an engine fail for using 5w-30 instead of 10w-30 or for using cheap oil instead of a quality brand, or for using 97 octane instead of 99.
Here's what I can say, though. If you ran an engine with conventional oil and an identical engine with synthetic oil continually until one died, the conventional would go first. Almost every time.
I have operated engines (Cummins and Caterpillar) costing FAR more than the 'thousands' that a lawn mower costs, using conventional oil and none of them--not a single one--had an oil related failure. What would I have gained by paying the extra money for synthetic oil?So, the point is which would you use in a machine that costs thousands? Given that the cost of conventional and synthetic oil is close to comparable, I believe most people would select synthetic. After all, it is SUPERIOR.
#37
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
For a long time the owners of vintage & veteran motorcycles have all had the same idea about oil
Good oil is the stuff you just took out
Bad oil is the stuff you haven't changed.
Oil is the cheapest part you can put in your engine and the more often you put this cheap part in the less often you expensive parts in.
Thousands of examples of engines going 2, 3 4 or more times the manufacturers recommended bottom end rebuild purely and simply because the owners replaced the oil very often.
A cheap oil replaced too soon is substantially better than an expensive oil left in for too long.
Mower oils need to be replaced at the end of each season before the mower is mothballed for winter.
So extending the oil change intervals is of little benefit to mower owners.
Good oil is the stuff you just took out
Bad oil is the stuff you haven't changed.
Oil is the cheapest part you can put in your engine and the more often you put this cheap part in the less often you expensive parts in.
Thousands of examples of engines going 2, 3 4 or more times the manufacturers recommended bottom end rebuild purely and simply because the owners replaced the oil very often.
A cheap oil replaced too soon is substantially better than an expensive oil left in for too long.
Mower oils need to be replaced at the end of each season before the mower is mothballed for winter.
So extending the oil change intervals is of little benefit to mower owners.
#38
TonyPrin
cpurvis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Independent testing over decades has consistently shown that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in both lubricating and protecting engines. Conversely, no analysis I've seen has ever shown conventional oil to be equal to synthetic and I never will.
TonyPrin
Did you arrived at this conclusion through either your own experience or data provided by others? Can you share that with us? Please don't recite the unsubstantiated benefits touted by the synthetic oil marketers
I have operated engines (Cummins and Caterpillar) costing FAR more than the 'thousands' that a lawn mower costs, using conventional oil and none of them--not a single one--had an oil related failure. What would I have gained by paying the extra money for synthetic oil?
cpurvis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Independent testing over decades has consistently shown that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in both lubricating and protecting engines. Conversely, no analysis I've seen has ever shown conventional oil to be equal to synthetic and I never will.
#39
TonyPrin
I agree with much of what you're saying, but not completely. Absolutely many of the motor oils touted today as synthetic are not truly synthetic largely in part because the term "synthetic" has become more of a marketing tool than a technical term. However, there are synthetics on the market. For example, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is made from natural gas so it's not produced in the way you describe at all.
And the balance of your comment shows not all dinosaurs have been converted into oil yet.
TonyPrin
There is nothing magic about synthetic oils and they are not synthetic .
All that has happened is technology has now allowed the oil refineries to do what the four companies have been doing for the past 50 years.
The oil is broken down into its component parts then reassembled ( blended ) back together without all the bits that are bad for the intended purpose and the good bits in relative ratios to again optimising the performance FOR THE SPECIFIC application it is blended for.
doing this is actually cheaper than the old methods of just taking out what you don't want the tossing in a package of extra stuff.
However it gets hyped up and sold at a premium to al of the turkeys stupid enough to believe the bull dust they are fed on.
I agree with much of what you're saying, but not completely. Absolutely many of the motor oils touted today as synthetic are not truly synthetic largely in part because the term "synthetic" has become more of a marketing tool than a technical term. However, there are synthetics on the market. For example, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is made from natural gas so it's not produced in the way you describe at all.
And the balance of your comment shows not all dinosaurs have been converted into oil yet.
#40
B
bertsmobile1
made from natural gas or made from what is filtered out of natural gas or made from reacting natural gas with other polly phenols ?
Last time I did physics it was tad difficult to make a liquid that was stable at room temperature from a compound that was also a gas at room temperature
B
bertsmobile1
I agree with much of what you're saying, but not completely. Absolutely many of the motor oils touted today as synthetic are not truly synthetic largely in part because the term "synthetic" has become more of a marketing tool than a technical term. However, there are synthetics on the market. For example, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is made from natural gas so it's not produced in the way you describe at all.
And the balance of your comment shows not all dinosaurs have been converted into oil yet.
made from natural gas or made from what is filtered out of natural gas or made from reacting natural gas with other polly phenols ?
Last time I did physics it was tad difficult to make a liquid that was stable at room temperature from a compound that was also a gas at room temperature
#42
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
You guys have me so confused about what oil to use that I can't decide so until I can I'm just not going to use any. :smile:
I only run synthetic in my truck. Everything else gets conventional.
I only run synthetic in my truck. Everything else gets conventional.
#43
cpurvis
What you're missing or ignoring is that this so-called "superiority" exists in the area of where "it makes no difference." Both EXCEED manufacturer's specifications. To exceed them even further gains nothing.
Also, conversely, you or I have never seen any real-world data showing synthetic oil to add one dollar to the bottom line of companies whose bottom line depends upon the economical operation of internal combustion engines. If there was you wouldn't see 55 gallon drums of Rotella, Chevron Delo, or Mobil Delvac in their maintenance shops. These companies have people whose job is to find ways of cutting costs and they have not ignored engine oil.
cpurvis
cpurvis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Independent testing over decades has consistently shown that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in both lubricating and protecting engines. Conversely, no analysis I've seen has ever shown conventional oil to be equal to synthetic and I never will.
What you're missing or ignoring is that this so-called "superiority" exists in the area of where "it makes no difference." Both EXCEED manufacturer's specifications. To exceed them even further gains nothing.
Also, conversely, you or I have never seen any real-world data showing synthetic oil to add one dollar to the bottom line of companies whose bottom line depends upon the economical operation of internal combustion engines. If there was you wouldn't see 55 gallon drums of Rotella, Chevron Delo, or Mobil Delvac in their maintenance shops. These companies have people whose job is to find ways of cutting costs and they have not ignored engine oil.
#44
B
bertsmobile1
And what you totally fail to understand is there is more to the choice of an oil than the properties of the oil.
Just like putting A1 Avgas, which is grealty superiour to std gas in your side valve engine will not make it run any better.
Putting synthetic oil in an engine nit designed to run synthetic oils will not make that engine run any better and in fact can cause significant damage.
There are things like maintaining a stable seperation film between parts and to be able to that the oil used must flow at the rate the engineers designed into the engine,
This is a particular problem with engines that run slow, like mowers & tractors where a faster flowing oil flows too fast through the bearing surface allowing metal to metal contact.
Engines designed to run synthetics have tighter clearences so the oil remains in the boundry lubrication zone .
Engines designed to run std oils have bigger spaces and it is hit & miss as to weather they have a sufficiently large enough pump to counter the faster flow rate.
The oil pressure inside an engine is due to RESISTACE OF THE OIL TO PASS THROUGH A CAVITY.
No resistance = no pressure
No pressure = severe engine damage
Then there are things like the hammering between the rod eyes.
Engineers design in a "pillow" of oil to adsorb this and that "pillow" is directly related to the mass of oil retained and the mass of oil retained is determned by the viscosity of the oil and the friction coefficient between the oil and the surfaces it is flowing through.
Also remember that the seal between the rings and the bore is made by the oil trapped between the rings and the ring groove preventing compression bypassing them thus forcing the rings out into the cylinder wall where the oil has to remain between the rings and the cylinder wall and these are designed to work with oil of specific properties which is why a lot of older engines will not run on synthetics , or if they do they consume it by the gallons because it can not maintain a stable oil film in this critical area.
In fact no engine that runs cast iron rings will gain any benefit from running synthetics and in many cases runs worse because the rings can never make a proper seal between the piston & cylinder wall thus it uses oil, suffers from increased blow by & lower compression.
Even worse because of the very low ash content of most synthetics, the operator is unaware because while you can smell the oil, it does not burn with clouds of white smoke as conventional oils do so you end up with a too low oil situation.
Engines designed to run synthetics usually run steel rings and right now a lot are running teflon coated steel rings.
Finally NO OIL SHOULD EVER BE LEFT IN AN ENGINE TILL IT HAD BROKEN DOWN.
and in fact the determining factor for oil change intervals for most engines is the particulate load, not the physical or chemical stability of the oil.
The oil filter can not remove all of the particulate matter it picks up during it's flow round the engine.
If it did your oil would never go black.
Now detergent oils , and all synthetic oils are detergent are specifically designed to keep all of these particles in suspension, so the filter can pull as many as possible out.
The remaining ultra fine particles remain in suspension, circulating around your engine erroding oil galleries, making them larger and thus reducing the oil pressure in these galleries, thus reducing the protection the oil provides.
Oil filters generally are set to the finest oil gallery size so if it goes through the filter, it will go through the engine.
However, just because it can pass through a passageway, dose not mean that it will not cause damage in doing so.
We call this WEAR , wear in an engine is a process of errosion which can & is accelerated by chemical contaminants and also solid contaminants.
And don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with synthetic oils, in fact they are great and I use them, in places that they were designed to be used and places where the equipment makers have given their approval.
The problem is all the ignorant morons who do not understand the engineering of oils and their proper application spruking them as God's gift to all engines which they are not and never will be.
Nothing is universally applicable and in particular this applies to oils cause if there was one that was, then that one would be the only one the oil companies would make because when it comes to making a profit from oil refining, VOLUME IS KING.
B
bertsmobile1
cpurvis, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Independent testing over decades has consistently shown that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in both lubricating and protecting engines. Conversely, no analysis I've seen has ever shown conventional oil to be equal to synthetic and I never will.
And what you totally fail to understand is there is more to the choice of an oil than the properties of the oil.
Just like putting A1 Avgas, which is grealty superiour to std gas in your side valve engine will not make it run any better.
Putting synthetic oil in an engine nit designed to run synthetic oils will not make that engine run any better and in fact can cause significant damage.
There are things like maintaining a stable seperation film between parts and to be able to that the oil used must flow at the rate the engineers designed into the engine,
This is a particular problem with engines that run slow, like mowers & tractors where a faster flowing oil flows too fast through the bearing surface allowing metal to metal contact.
Engines designed to run synthetics have tighter clearences so the oil remains in the boundry lubrication zone .
Engines designed to run std oils have bigger spaces and it is hit & miss as to weather they have a sufficiently large enough pump to counter the faster flow rate.
The oil pressure inside an engine is due to RESISTACE OF THE OIL TO PASS THROUGH A CAVITY.
No resistance = no pressure
No pressure = severe engine damage
Then there are things like the hammering between the rod eyes.
Engineers design in a "pillow" of oil to adsorb this and that "pillow" is directly related to the mass of oil retained and the mass of oil retained is determned by the viscosity of the oil and the friction coefficient between the oil and the surfaces it is flowing through.
Also remember that the seal between the rings and the bore is made by the oil trapped between the rings and the ring groove preventing compression bypassing them thus forcing the rings out into the cylinder wall where the oil has to remain between the rings and the cylinder wall and these are designed to work with oil of specific properties which is why a lot of older engines will not run on synthetics , or if they do they consume it by the gallons because it can not maintain a stable oil film in this critical area.
In fact no engine that runs cast iron rings will gain any benefit from running synthetics and in many cases runs worse because the rings can never make a proper seal between the piston & cylinder wall thus it uses oil, suffers from increased blow by & lower compression.
Even worse because of the very low ash content of most synthetics, the operator is unaware because while you can smell the oil, it does not burn with clouds of white smoke as conventional oils do so you end up with a too low oil situation.
Engines designed to run synthetics usually run steel rings and right now a lot are running teflon coated steel rings.
Finally NO OIL SHOULD EVER BE LEFT IN AN ENGINE TILL IT HAD BROKEN DOWN.
and in fact the determining factor for oil change intervals for most engines is the particulate load, not the physical or chemical stability of the oil.
The oil filter can not remove all of the particulate matter it picks up during it's flow round the engine.
If it did your oil would never go black.
Now detergent oils , and all synthetic oils are detergent are specifically designed to keep all of these particles in suspension, so the filter can pull as many as possible out.
The remaining ultra fine particles remain in suspension, circulating around your engine erroding oil galleries, making them larger and thus reducing the oil pressure in these galleries, thus reducing the protection the oil provides.
Oil filters generally are set to the finest oil gallery size so if it goes through the filter, it will go through the engine.
However, just because it can pass through a passageway, dose not mean that it will not cause damage in doing so.
We call this WEAR , wear in an engine is a process of errosion which can & is accelerated by chemical contaminants and also solid contaminants.
And don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with synthetic oils, in fact they are great and I use them, in places that they were designed to be used and places where the equipment makers have given their approval.
The problem is all the ignorant morons who do not understand the engineering of oils and their proper application spruking them as God's gift to all engines which they are not and never will be.
Nothing is universally applicable and in particular this applies to oils cause if there was one that was, then that one would be the only one the oil companies would make because when it comes to making a profit from oil refining, VOLUME IS KING.
#45
TonyPrin
I suspect you're right about this. The discussion got deeply into the weeds. I believe I'm among those who got us there and for that I'm sorry. At the end of the day, getting into long-winded esoteric discussions on the finer points of things like synthetic oil probably don't benefit anyone but those who already agree with them.
Again, sorry about that.
TonyPrin
You guys have me so confused about what oil to use that I can't decide so until I can I'm just not going to use any. :smile:
I only run synthetic in my truck. Everything else gets conventional.
I suspect you're right about this. The discussion got deeply into the weeds. I believe I'm among those who got us there and for that I'm sorry. At the end of the day, getting into long-winded esoteric discussions on the finer points of things like synthetic oil probably don't benefit anyone but those who already agree with them.
Again, sorry about that.
#46
BlazNT
Most important thing is changing the oil often. Now pick your oil(I waste my money on synthetic) and change that oil. I do not like Mobile 1. It has made more than one of my vehicles start ticking.
BlazNT
You guys have me so confused about what oil to use that I can't decide so until I can I'm just not going to use any. :smile:
I only run synthetic in my truck. Everything else gets conventional.
Most important thing is changing the oil often. Now pick your oil(I waste my money on synthetic) and change that oil. I do not like Mobile 1. It has made more than one of my vehicles start ticking.
#47
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Chuck got it .
In fact I previously mentioned it myself.
The most important thing about oil in mower engines, particulalry as a lot of them are splash lubed with no filters, is how long it has been in there.
IT should be changed at the end of every season for the home owner.
The information about synthetics is all based around CARS and not MOWERS.
They two are nothing like each other.
The big problem with using synthetics is people think they do not have to change the oil cause the oil is so much better and it costs so much more and that is the wrong approach.
My customers who do annual oil changes have old mowers and they are mostly running like Swiss watches which aren't much good for mowing cause the arms are too short.
Just as long as you stay within the viscosities mentioned in your owners handbook you mower will be fine.
I know lots of people who run diesel oil in their motorcycles, cause they get it for free from work.
In fact I previously mentioned it myself.
The most important thing about oil in mower engines, particulalry as a lot of them are splash lubed with no filters, is how long it has been in there.
IT should be changed at the end of every season for the home owner.
The information about synthetics is all based around CARS and not MOWERS.
They two are nothing like each other.
The big problem with using synthetics is people think they do not have to change the oil cause the oil is so much better and it costs so much more and that is the wrong approach.
My customers who do annual oil changes have old mowers and they are mostly running like Swiss watches which aren't much good for mowing cause the arms are too short.
Just as long as you stay within the viscosities mentioned in your owners handbook you mower will be fine.
I know lots of people who run diesel oil in their motorcycles, cause they get it for free from work.