Export thread

I've done a quick search and have seen this as a problem on some XT7 engines. Less than 4 hours on it, always has been hard to start and now gas just pours through it out the carb. Any ideas I can try?

Thanks

Less than 4 hours -- should be under warranty -- if it isn't -- must be float in carb bowl isn't closing the valve. Was it stored over winter with gas in it ?

No gas over the winter, I always run them out. Just put in fresh this morning.

Not an "expert" but it sounds like the float is stuck and not closing the needle valve -- I don't know how hard it is to get the bowl off that carb or if just taking the carb off and turning it upside down a few times would free things up. ????

If you can get the gas out of the tank and bowl - and don't want to take the carb apart - maybe just enough sea foam or another carb cleaner in the bowl over night would disolve any gum / varnish that is causing the problem.

KennyV usually has great suggestions.

JSmith said:

No gas over the winter, I always run them out. Just put in fresh this morning.

Click to expand...

Thanks BKB. I'll take a quick look at the bowl and see what it'll take to look at it. Appreciate the info.

OK -- let us know what you find and if it works. :biggrin:

BKBrown said:

OK -- let us know what you find and if it works. :biggrin:

Click to expand...

I agree with BKbrown, can't imagine what else would allow gas to pour from the carb. It doesn't seem likely with an engine that new that was stored properly.
I would be curious to know: A) what you found on the web to be the "common problem". B) What you find when you disassemble the intake/carb.
It could be that enough gas was left in the carb after the engine stopped to cause the float, needle\seat assembly to malfunction. Or, perhaps the gas is leaking from the fuel line and apears to be comming from the carb.
Either way it's a shame you can't get the manfufacturer to fix it. I suppose sometime it's less hassle to fix it yourself, as long as you don't void the warranty in the process.

RobertBrown said:

I agree with BKbrown, can't imagine what else would allow gas to pour from the carb. It doesn't seem likely with an engine that new that was stored properly.
I would be curious to know: A) what you found on the web to be the "common problem". B) What you find when you disassemble the intake/carb.
It could be that enough gas was left in the carb after the engine stopped to cause the float, needle\seat assembly to malfunction. Or, perhaps the gas is leaking from the fuel line and apears to be comming from the carb.
Either way it's a shame you can't get the manfufacturer to fix it. I suppose sometime it's less hassle to fix it yourself, as long as you don't void the warranty in the process.

Click to expand...

Every time I store an engine for the season (mowers in fall, snowblowers in spring) I always remove the carb float bowl and push compressed air into the fuel tank opening to be sure all fuel is expelled. My '90 vintage Craftsman snowblower is a huge PIB to get purged of fuel, if you just try the easy way of pushing up the carb bowl drain in the hope of getting all the fuel out you will end up with a few ounces left in tank and carb no matter how hard you try to drain it all. Believe me, leaving the stale fuel in causes a lot of problems down the road.

I think everyone has this pretty well covered... there has to be something sticking the float or the float is not 'floating' ... if the fresh fuel has not dissolved the sticky gunk... you may have to look inside the bowl to see whats up with the no shut off ... :smile:KennyV

I think this is one of the new Chinese made Kohler engines... I have not looked close at these carbs so if you do take the fuel bowl off... click a couple pictures and post them ... let the rest of us see what may be new & different in these...

CHINESE MADE KOHLER!!!!????

If I find out my one year old pusher has a Chink made engine in it I am going to be FURIOUS

Hi everyone, first post on this forum. Looks like a very helpful site! Anyway, I could not resist posting because I also have A lawnmower with this kohler xt7 engine. It's the last year toro super recycler (bought in april). I have always purchased lower line $200 dollar yard machines and decided to spend some more $$ and get a higher quality one. This mower was awesome all year long - started on the first pull every time. Followed the service schedule to the tee since I paid over $500 for this thing (replaced plug, drained oil, run it dry prior to storage and changed air filter). Went to fire it up this spring and it ran for about 2 minutes and choked out. Would not restart! I thought maybe a put old gas in it since the gas I used was about 3 months old - 87 oct. Replaced with new and still would not start. I talked to my local Toro dealership and they said to unscrew the nut on the carb bowl and make sure fuel is flowing through there. Flushed it with new fuel and the fuel went through successfully, but since i have no experiene with this i dont know if there was a partial blockage. Still did not start so i took it in to them and after about 1 week they said it was burning oil and some gasket had a leak? I am still learning about how these engines work, but for a 1 year old motor this is unacceptable. They are still checking with kohler about a kit to fix this and if it is covered under warranty. I will be furious if they come back and say it was "bad gas". I am wondering if what js is speaking of related. This mower may have about 15 hours of use!

Scripkilla said:

Hi everyone, first post on this forum. L


they said it was burning oil and some gasket had a leak
... for a 1 year old motor this is unacceptable.
... This mower may have about 15 hours of use!

Click to expand...

You are right... That IS unacceptable.
Welcome to the Forum AND keep us informed as to what they tell you... :smile:KennyV

Hello, I have moved your post to the Small Engine & Mower Repair Forum. You will have better luck finding assistance there. :wink:

Thanks for joining LawnMowerForum!!!

Just got an update from the repair shop (over 1 week) if anyone is familiar with my issue I posted last week about my xt7 toro sr. They have the replacement 'kit' coming and it was determined there was an issue wiith the parts being machined wrong. Something about a hole being drilled too small which is causing a build up of compressed air and forcing oil/gas into the carb? Whatever it is, I'll let you know what becomes of it...it's being covered under the warranty...I'm wondering how many of this engines went out with this apparent fault on the assembly line?

Thanks for keeping us informed ! :smile:

Where was this engine manufactured (if you know)?

Sorry for the late update, but I followed advice given here and have it running, at least long enough to mow the lawn, maybe an hour so far. I removed the carb and cleaned thoroughly with carb cleaner. During disasembly I found the gasket was malformed, but I don't think this was the problem. I reassembled, added Sea Foam, and installed a gas cutoff so if it failed again I wouldn't have a quart of gas on my garage floor. So far so good. Thanks for all the help.

some models of the xt7 have a problem with bad plating on the needle valve and are being replaced under warranty if the engine is within a certain serial number range. so see your local kohler dealer to found out for sure.

Just got word back from service center that the kit they received from kohler did not fix the issue. They are now rePlacing the entire engine...:confused2:

EXACT same thing happened to me today. I bought mine last August. Went to dealer to get a rebuild kit for the carb and he about fell over laughing, said "good luck ... that engine is so new that they dont even have carbs for it available, get on the repair list and prepare to wait for back order parts. He had a list of people with the same issue. He said the XT-7 carb is a lemon and there are alot of issues with it and kohler dosn't have it worked out yet. He aslo said no warranty with no reciept.

I have the same gas leak problem with my Ariens A173K22 / Kohler XT-7 . First it was the plating in the needle vavle. I cleaned it up myself and it worked for about a month until I left it for over two weeks. Gas on the floor again. I opened it up, took the valve and float out finding no apparent problems. Put it back together and it worked for the day. Several days later, gas on the floor. I clamped the gas line with small vise-grip until next mowing. Unclamped gas line, gas all over the floor. Took out the valve & float. found no problems, put it together.... it worked for the mowing. Days later... gas on the floor. I clamped the gas line. This is now my routine. What are we going to do? The routine all the time? Purchased 8/10. Have not gone through the trouble of bringing in for warranty repair. That might be more hassle than it is worth @ my location.

From the post directly above, I am also having some auto-choke problems. Once started, I already have my air cleaner off and have to hold the plate open for 30 sec or so or the engine will flood out. I have to run it for about 3 mins standing(not cutting grass) until the heat from the exhaust/choke control keeps my plate open.

Yes, this is a Chinese engine. I think it's the same engine as the one used on new Ariens and suffers from the same problems. They are hugely over-engineered, especially the ones that have an automatic choke - I've seen Ferrari's with less complicated mechanisms. I don't think any of the answers in this thread will fix the problem. Bear in mind these engines aren't much older than 12 months and gunge build-up in the carb does not apply. In my experience (and I have worked on many of these engines this year) the only solution is to replace the carb. You cannot replace any of the components because they are not sold separately (at least according to my Kohler dealer). You cannot even buy a float bowl gasket. I know this is not much help but these engines are bad news.

Yes, this Kohler engine is made in China. However, with the greatest respect to my fellow "experts", you are all missing the problem. The float and fuel needle have nothing to do with delivering fuel into the engine. They exist simply to ensure that the supply of gas from the tank into the float chamber is kept at the correct level. Floats and needles don't go wrong very often. Despite what everyone says, the needles don't stick unless they have been left sitting for 2 years with old gas and get gummed up. For normal mowers used normally, needle sticking rarely happens. The biggest problem relates to the float bowl gasket. Many of my fellow experts don't understand that carbs work on the principle of atmospheric pressure and vacuum. The pressure of the air rushing into the venturi to fill the vacuum caused by the descending piston, is different from the normal air pressure because it is being squeezed into a smaller opening and, therefore, runs faster. If the atmospheric pressure in the float chamber remained the same as normal, the rushing air in the venturi would push out through the float chamber via the gas feed line. Obviously, this aint going to make anything work. So, there's a small airway (called an "air bleed") from the venturi into the float chamber which ensures that the same atmospheric pressure that exists at the venturi, also exists within the float chamber. The forces of nature take over and a small amount of gas is drawn into the venturi where it meets the incoming stream of fast-running air and, whoop-di-do, mixture and vaporization commence. If, and this is the important issue, the float bowl gasket is not working properly, air is getting into the float chamber through the gasket and negating the atmospheric pressure coming in from the air bleed. In other words, the gas won't be pushed in to the venturi and the engine won't start. Even on carbs where there is a manual primer (and the old Tecumseh engines are the best example), pumping gas into the venturi will start the engine but it will stop straight away if the float bowl gasket is faulty. This same faulty gasket will also cause the gas to leak. Now, having said all this, the problem is not necessarily going to be fixed by replacing the gasket. In my opinion, these gaskets on this engine are too thin and don't get properly compressed when the bowl nut is tightened. So, a new gasket may work but it may not. Just make sure that the gasket seat is clean, as is the inside rim around the bowl. Use solvent and a soft brush to clean. Don't use a wire brush. So, for those that have taken the bowls off, fiddled around with the pin, cleaned the float and put it all back together to find the machine starts. All you have done is to reposition the gasket and fixed the air leak. The needle and pin had nothing to do with it. The only air getting into the float chamber must come through the air intake side of the venturi, not through the gasket.

I see so many errors in your explanation I don't even know where to start correcting. Somebody needs to go study carb theory, and find out what all those passages are really for.

JSmith said:

I've done a quick search and have seen this as a problem on some XT7 engines. Less than 4 hours on it, always has been hard to start and now gas just pours through it out the carb. Any ideas I can try?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Hmm. Judging by this first post, If the fuel pours through it, "clearly" the float needle is not stopping the fuel. When running, and as the engine consumes the fuel from the float bowl ( reservoir), the float will lower opening the float needle and refilling the float bowl to a constant level. If the fuel as JSmith says, is just pouring out the carb, there has to be a problem with the float/needle & seat system.

edit: I guess if you had excess pressure in the fuel tank, "that" might over ride the float/needle,& seat.

I agree. If the needle is stuck open then fuel is going to keep coming in. However, I have found that it's rarely the needle. Perhaps the float itself is punctured and is not rising to shut off the needle? I guess we need to know where the gas is coming from. Is it coming out the air intake in which case it is definitely flooding in the bowl. If its dripping from the bowl then it could be either the securing nut or the drain nut loose or the little rubber gasket on either is broken.

Not familiar with the China Kohler. I am wondering if it has a replaceable seat. I remember on some other engines of the past, those small rubber seats that have a ridge on one side (goes in first) and if I were to put it in upside down, it wouldn't seat with the needle, because the "correct side" has a shape that conforms with the needle. It is hard for me to stomach Kohler being made in China! Bring jobs back home and return quality again. I haven't worked on a Wisconson (VH4D etc. and the Robins) engine in years, are they still in business?

Don't know about the ridge on the seat. In any event, I spoke with a Kohler dealer today and it seems they do not sell any carb components for the Chinese machines. You have to buy the whole carb. This is disgusting. I was quoted $55 for a new carb which does not include the gaskets on the air intake or the exhaust manifold. These have to be purchased as gasket set which also includes the head gasket. What a rip off.

I also have a Yard Works machine with carb problems. When you strip off all the cowlings, the engine underneath is identical to the Kohler engine. The carb shape is the same. The only difference is the choke. The YW machine has a B&S wand, whereas the Kohler has a heat activated spring piece of riubbish. Basically, they are the same engine. So, given that MTD owns Yard Works and they are now making stuff in China, and now Kohler is buying Chinese engines instead of making them, it looks like before long every lawn mower engine will be made in China. I also have a Husqvarna in for repair. Guess where it is made?

What is wrong with our stupid country? Why don't we stand up and say we've had enough?

ILENGINE said:

I see so many errors in your explanation I don't even know where to start correcting. Somebody needs to go study carb theory, and find out what all those passages are really for.

Click to expand...

I agree with you...
... there is Only one source of excess fuel to the carb, the float needle is not stopping the fuel....
:smile:KennyV

I am having this exact problem as well. Had a toro 22 inch large back wheel self propelled 2003 that finally died 2012. B/S engine, never got that kind of life out of any other type of mower so bought another one, this one with the Kohler. Had this problem this past march bad, finally would not start at all. Local shop replaced carb for about $100 and I went on my way.

Is this mower/engine just a lemon? really souring me on toros. Is there a fix yet? any insight appreciated. Meto atlanta Thanks very kindly!

This is an old thread. You will get better response from a fresh one. On the Repair or the Toro forum. It is hard to get carbs worked on now days under warranty. Seems most of the time the owner neglect to keep fuel fresh enough is to blame. The Chinese engines were bad to corrode the needles due to poor coatings the last couple of years. The Toro snowblowers had trouble with it as well. It is supposed to be fixed. Kohler was supposed to warranty the problem. However I have seen many Husqvarna lawn mowers the last two years setting at the curb or going to the scrap pile with those Kohler engines on them. Most of them had no carb on them. My dealer scrapped about a half dozen of them . His excuse was he could not get parts for them, and new carbs cost to much.

Better get furious, It's a Cohler

I realize this is a old post but I wanted to add the chinese engines aren't that bad once you understand them. The problem with float valves and bowls is common to all engines and is caused by alcohol in the fuel. The carbs for these engines are typically less than 40.00. The biggest change in working on these engines is they tend to be more modular, for example replacement carbs instead of rebuilding same thing with recoils. So far in my shop, the chinese
engines have been holding up pretty well.This year 80% of the snow equipment will be powered by chinese .
I really hate to see it but customers want to buy snow throwers for the same price they did 20 years ago.