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Kohler Oil?
#1
R
Rickcin
R
Rickcin
I bought a new CC lawn tractor with a Kohler V Twin. Should I use Kohler oil when saving the engine or another high quality 10-30 motor oil?
#2
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Everybody will argue over what is the best oil. The truth is find a good quality oil and use it. Kohler oil is good but any name brand oil is to.
#3
TonyPrin
TonyPrin
There is a basis for using small engine motor oil versus motor oil designed for vehicles. That said, I don't believe it's decisive and millions of people use vehicle motor oil in their small engines without issue. Beyond that, if you go for a small engine oil there still is no substantive reason to use Kohler versus another brand. All that said, if you go for small engine oil my suggestion is to go for a synthetic small engine oil like Amsoil because synthetics provide measurable benefits.
#4
R
Rickcin
I use and have been using synthetic oil for years in all of my cars, however on this site, I have read all kinds of controversy regarding synthetic oil in small engines! The bottom line seems to be the synthetics are thinner and small engines are not designed to use them otherwise it would be stated in their maintenance recommendations.
Several manufacturers mechanics have stated this and there are even a few you tube videos that attest to this.
This may be true or not, the debate goes on forever while I just want to play it safe. I know Kohler most likely does not make their own oil and it is a little more inconvenient to purchase it since it's not sold at many retail locations but I can get it at Amazon.
Bottom line in my mind is if I use convention oil, instead of synthetic and change the oil slightly sooner then recommend, my engine is then getting the best care it can.
Also, for a lawn mower that gets used only in warm weather, 30 W oil is recommended but not easy to find even in the Kohler brand, what is up with that? Synthetics as well, they usually have a more varied viscosity and don't think there is one with a straight 30w but I could be wrong. Thanks for your input!
R
Rickcin
There is a basis for using small engine motor oil versus motor oil designed for vehicles. That said, I don't believe it's decisive and millions of people use vehicle motor oil in their small engines without issue. Beyond that, if you go for a small engine oil there still is no substantive reason to use Kohler versus another brand. All that said, if you go for small engine oil my suggestion is to go for a synthetic small engine oil like Amsoil because synthetics provide measurable benefits.
I use and have been using synthetic oil for years in all of my cars, however on this site, I have read all kinds of controversy regarding synthetic oil in small engines! The bottom line seems to be the synthetics are thinner and small engines are not designed to use them otherwise it would be stated in their maintenance recommendations.
Several manufacturers mechanics have stated this and there are even a few you tube videos that attest to this.
This may be true or not, the debate goes on forever while I just want to play it safe. I know Kohler most likely does not make their own oil and it is a little more inconvenient to purchase it since it's not sold at many retail locations but I can get it at Amazon.
Bottom line in my mind is if I use convention oil, instead of synthetic and change the oil slightly sooner then recommend, my engine is then getting the best care it can.
Also, for a lawn mower that gets used only in warm weather, 30 W oil is recommended but not easy to find even in the Kohler brand, what is up with that? Synthetics as well, they usually have a more varied viscosity and don't think there is one with a straight 30w but I could be wrong. Thanks for your input!
#5
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
I have heard that the Kohler oil was made by Quaker State. The only Kohler engines that are recommended using 30w are the K and M series. All others recommend 10w30 except the big block 38-40 hp which require 20w50. The small engine makers are just now starting to warm up to synthetic oil. Briggs has synthetic blend in 5w30 and full synthetic in 20w50. Kohler hasn't came out with their own version yet, but I am sure they will in time.
And using dino oil for break in is kind of out of date. When synthetics started becoming popular, at first the small engine makers didn't recommend it, then said that you could use it but use dino oil for the first 50 hours because synthetic may not allow proper seating of parts, but that is now gone from all the owners manuals, and Briggs is actually pushing the use of synthetics now.
And using dino oil for break in is kind of out of date. When synthetics started becoming popular, at first the small engine makers didn't recommend it, then said that you could use it but use dino oil for the first 50 hours because synthetic may not allow proper seating of parts, but that is now gone from all the owners manuals, and Briggs is actually pushing the use of synthetics now.
#6
C
cashman
C
cashman
Kohler did a very indepth study of oils before they came out with their own brand of oils. Synthetic oil while able to withstand the higher crankcase temps in air cooled engines didn't offer any more wear resistance than a good quality carbon based oil due to the cost according to their study. Also their study revealed that regular automotive oils didn't offer the wear resistance that an oil refined to operate at the crankcase temps that were typically found in operation of air cooled engines. Typical automotive oils their study revealed remained stable up to about 230 degrees then started breaking down. They found that crankcase temps on an air cooled engine could reach upwards of 280 degrees in some conditions. Air cooled engine oil is refined from a higher grade base stock than typical automotive oils thus the higher cost. All of the full synthetic oils they tested easily handled 300 degree crankcase temps but again didn't offer any more wear resistance than the carbon based oils refined with additives to withstand the 280 degree crankcase temps. All of this data was based on routine maintenance intervals. Interestingly, all of the lubricating oil brands are refined from just a few refiners in the world. Conoco Phillips and Pennsoil Quaker State being among the largest. Kohler did put out a bulletin that listed all this data back in the mid 1990's.
#7
NorthBama
NorthBama
I have used Mobil 1 10-30 synthetic oil for ten years in my Toro with a Kawasaki engines with not issues. Just saying
#8
TonyPrin
Clearly there is debate about using synthetic oil in small engines. In terms of their use in Kohler engines, though, I agree with much of what you say but not all. The Kohler website on FAG says:
TonyPrin
I use and have been using synthetic oil for years in all of my cars, however on this site, I have read all kinds of controversy regarding synthetic oil in small engines! The bottom line seems to be the synthetics are thinner and small engines are not designed to use them otherwise it would be stated in their maintenance recommendations.
Several manufacturers mechanics have stated this and there are even a few you tube videos that attest to this.
This may be true or not, the debate goes on forever while I just want to play it safe. I know Kohler most likely does not make their own oil and it is a little more inconvenient to purchase it since it's not sold at many retail locations but I can get it at Amazon.
Bottom line in my mind is if I use convention oil, instead of synthetic and change the oil slightly sooner then recommend, my engine is then getting the best care it can.
Also, for a lawn mower that gets used only in warm weather, 30 W oil is recommended but not easy to find even in the Kohler brand, what is up with that? Synthetics as well, they usually have a more varied viscosity and don't think there is one with a straight 30w but I could be wrong. Thanks for your input!
Clearly there is debate about using synthetic oil in small engines. In terms of their use in Kohler engines, though, I agree with much of what you say but not all. The Kohler website on FAG says:
Synthetic oils meeting the classifications listed in your owner's manual may be used; however, you should still perform oil changes at the recommended intervals. To allow the piston rings to seat properly, we recommend operating a new or rebuilt engine for at least 50 hours on standard oil before switching to synthetic oil.
#9
R
Rickcin
R
Rickcin
Interesting regarding Kohler new take on synthetics however I am thinking I will stay with conventional oil since my lawn is only 1/2 acre so my tractor runs for approximately 35 minutes per week. I don't really think the higher heat capacity of the synthetic oil would be a real benefit in my situation so I will use traditional oil and change it as recommended or sooner.
My manual recommends the first oil and filter change to occur after 5 hrs if my memory is correct?
My manual recommends the first oil and filter change to occur after 5 hrs if my memory is correct?
#10
I
ILENGINE
Synthetic oils meeting the classifications listed in your owner's manual may be used; however, you should still perform oil changes at the recommended intervals. To allow the piston rings to seat properly, we recommend operating a new or rebuilt engine for at least 50 hours on standard oil before switching to synthetic oil.
This information not included in the owners manuals or service manuals for at least the newer engines. I know it was there at one time, but searching the manuals for the word synthetic only appears once in the manuals under oil recommendations.
I
ILENGINE
Clearly there is debate about using synthetic oil in small engines. In terms of their use in Kohler engines, though, I agree with much of what you say but not all. The Kohler website on FAG says:
Synthetic oils meeting the classifications listed in your owner's manual may be used; however, you should still perform oil changes at the recommended intervals. To allow the piston rings to seat properly, we recommend operating a new or rebuilt engine for at least 50 hours on standard oil before switching to synthetic oil.
This information not included in the owners manuals or service manuals for at least the newer engines. I know it was there at one time, but searching the manuals for the word synthetic only appears once in the manuals under oil recommendations.
#12
TonyPrin
I'm not aware of that. What's your basis for saying "SJ" and not "SJ or later"?
TonyPrin
use oil with API seal and rated S,J for air cooled engine
I'm not aware of that. What's your basis for saying "SJ" and not "SJ or later"?
#14
cpurvis
cpurvis
Oil-related failures are rare, especially if you follow these rules:
#1. ANY oil is better than no oil. Keep the oil level in your engine where it needs to be, even if you have to temporarily use the wrong stuff. Almost all oil-related failures are a result of having too little oil in the engine.
#2. Use the right oil. Find out what API spec and viscosity the manufacturer recommends and use it. If you're not willing to check to see whether a particular oil meets those requirements, use the 'brand name' oil, such as Koher, Kubota, etc. That's mower manufacturers have oil bottled with their name on it--some people just don't want to bother with finding their own.
#3. Change the oil at least as often as the manufacturer recommends.
Do that and the odds against having an oil related problem with your engine are stacked heavily in your favor.
#1. ANY oil is better than no oil. Keep the oil level in your engine where it needs to be, even if you have to temporarily use the wrong stuff. Almost all oil-related failures are a result of having too little oil in the engine.
#2. Use the right oil. Find out what API spec and viscosity the manufacturer recommends and use it. If you're not willing to check to see whether a particular oil meets those requirements, use the 'brand name' oil, such as Koher, Kubota, etc. That's mower manufacturers have oil bottled with their name on it--some people just don't want to bother with finding their own.
#3. Change the oil at least as often as the manufacturer recommends.
Do that and the odds against having an oil related problem with your engine are stacked heavily in your favor.
#15
M
MowManMow
M
MowManMow
fwiw-
Retired now but my eldest Brother was designing Turbine Jet engines right out of college for Babcock in the mid 60's. He told me over 40 yrs ago when the Turbine jet engines were first tested they couldn't run long at all due to the heat cooking all the oil and they simply seized. It took a long while for the oil industry to catch up and develop an oil that could withstand the heat produced by the jet turbine engines. The oil they came up for the turbines was Synthetic oil. The military kept this oil technology under lock/key for many many years to keep other countries behind our jet engine development. It wasn't brought to the mass market until a fighter pilot brought it to market in early 70's as we now call Amsoil. (No affiliation at all here).
Regardless' what anyone ever tells you, any engine in a mower,tiller, gen etc.. will last longer for lack of oil breakdown using a full syn. Regardless of syn brand it still flows,cleans and protects better than any Dino oil can, besides its longevity is so much better. Maybe the higher Zinc oil Kohler offers can hold a candle for wear longer than other dino oils but only to a certain temp, but' then any Syn just walks all over it. Reason I doubt Kohler oil? 1st its Quaker State which has always been the lowest grade oils on the world's market, 2nd "What % zinc is actually in it?" It don't take much to say it has more Zinc than competitors when others have no zinc to speak of?... Same with Syn blend, now' is that a single drop of syn in a tanker load of dino? Unless its changed no law says it has to be anymore than a drop to say "blend" on a bottle. See that % in writing?
I've ran 10w-30 full syn in my Kohler Wheel Horses over 2 decades now without issue one, no smoke, never re-ring/rebuilt one yet. Most times Mobil 1 now days as its easy to locate, I ran Amsoil yrs ago. Keep in mind the manuals of yesterday's engines all say SAE 30 because locating full syn oil was very hard for any customer yrs ago, just wasn't used then. Understand too, Oil corps and engine makers have contracts to promote each others products so just beware these contracts may not end for yrs to come to even change recommended oils without lawsuits. Most likely their huge contracts never were in their consumers best interest when greed comes into play we all pay, do they really think of you? Look at your gas prices, same people...lol
Peace
Retired now but my eldest Brother was designing Turbine Jet engines right out of college for Babcock in the mid 60's. He told me over 40 yrs ago when the Turbine jet engines were first tested they couldn't run long at all due to the heat cooking all the oil and they simply seized. It took a long while for the oil industry to catch up and develop an oil that could withstand the heat produced by the jet turbine engines. The oil they came up for the turbines was Synthetic oil. The military kept this oil technology under lock/key for many many years to keep other countries behind our jet engine development. It wasn't brought to the mass market until a fighter pilot brought it to market in early 70's as we now call Amsoil. (No affiliation at all here).
Regardless' what anyone ever tells you, any engine in a mower,tiller, gen etc.. will last longer for lack of oil breakdown using a full syn. Regardless of syn brand it still flows,cleans and protects better than any Dino oil can, besides its longevity is so much better. Maybe the higher Zinc oil Kohler offers can hold a candle for wear longer than other dino oils but only to a certain temp, but' then any Syn just walks all over it. Reason I doubt Kohler oil? 1st its Quaker State which has always been the lowest grade oils on the world's market, 2nd "What % zinc is actually in it?" It don't take much to say it has more Zinc than competitors when others have no zinc to speak of?... Same with Syn blend, now' is that a single drop of syn in a tanker load of dino? Unless its changed no law says it has to be anymore than a drop to say "blend" on a bottle. See that % in writing?
I've ran 10w-30 full syn in my Kohler Wheel Horses over 2 decades now without issue one, no smoke, never re-ring/rebuilt one yet. Most times Mobil 1 now days as its easy to locate, I ran Amsoil yrs ago. Keep in mind the manuals of yesterday's engines all say SAE 30 because locating full syn oil was very hard for any customer yrs ago, just wasn't used then. Understand too, Oil corps and engine makers have contracts to promote each others products so just beware these contracts may not end for yrs to come to even change recommended oils without lawsuits. Most likely their huge contracts never were in their consumers best interest when greed comes into play we all pay, do they really think of you? Look at your gas prices, same people...lol
Peace