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Kohler Magnum 20 Starting problem with video
#1
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Hello all,
I have a Kohler Magnum 20 (or 18) powering a mid-90s Vermeer 620 woodchipper. All was running well 1-2 years ago until it sat over a Northeast winter.
The engine would not move when I tried to start it this summer. I added oil into each cylinder, let it sit, and eventually got the flywheel moving. After replacing the battery, it now cranks well but will not fire. Here's what I've done:
-Swapped out the gas and tank with fresh fuel and a clean pony tank with a new filter.
-Cleaned (fairly well) carb: removed rust and stains. Gasket is not in great condition but it seems to still provide a good seal. I have not adjusted any needles or screws.
-Used starting fluid sparingly (4-5 times); would fire but not start.
-Tested sparkplugs (two different types of plugs): both sparked, small, but still a spark.
As the video shows, there is oil spitting out the breather tube (dirty, too). I assume because there is too much oil in the cylinder from freeing it up. I removed the breather tube cap and gasket while starting in the video. I am going to change the oil next. Not sure what else to do.
I have successfully tinkered with some small engines in the past but I am far from an expert. Looking forward to utilizing this great resource. Thanks for all your advice!
I'm too new to post a link so bear with the copy, paste, and edit.
video: youtu [.] be/vkaayfp5IuE
-Buz
I have a Kohler Magnum 20 (or 18) powering a mid-90s Vermeer 620 woodchipper. All was running well 1-2 years ago until it sat over a Northeast winter.
The engine would not move when I tried to start it this summer. I added oil into each cylinder, let it sit, and eventually got the flywheel moving. After replacing the battery, it now cranks well but will not fire. Here's what I've done:
-Swapped out the gas and tank with fresh fuel and a clean pony tank with a new filter.
-Cleaned (fairly well) carb: removed rust and stains. Gasket is not in great condition but it seems to still provide a good seal. I have not adjusted any needles or screws.
-Used starting fluid sparingly (4-5 times); would fire but not start.
-Tested sparkplugs (two different types of plugs): both sparked, small, but still a spark.
As the video shows, there is oil spitting out the breather tube (dirty, too). I assume because there is too much oil in the cylinder from freeing it up. I removed the breather tube cap and gasket while starting in the video. I am going to change the oil next. Not sure what else to do.
I have successfully tinkered with some small engines in the past but I am far from an expert. Looking forward to utilizing this great resource. Thanks for all your advice!
I'm too new to post a link so bear with the copy, paste, and edit.
video: youtu [.] be/vkaayfp5IuE
-Buz
#2
dfbroxy
dfbroxy
Hi buzbo, let me start off by saying welcome to the forum.
First thing first, the experts on this site will need your make and model number. Its stamped on one of your valve covers. I am not one of the experts, but a tinkerer like yourself. I retired 6 months ago and needed to rebuild my 25hp briggs so I joined this forum and started watching vidios on google. Now after the rebuild she runs like new. Make use of both of those and you will never have a small engine in the shop.
Thats my advice now to your engine. Use gas instead of starter fluid to avoid the chance of engine damage. I would start with checking the pushrods and valve adjustment. There are some very good vidios on google if you dont know how. As I am unfamilar with your engine I dont know if it has a fuel siloniod on the carb, but if it does check the operation of it.(google) After doing this hook jumper cables to it and try to start again, several times. If it doesnt start pull plugs and clean if they are wet with oil. With plugs out turn engine over to clear cylinders. Reinstall plugs and try to start again. If this doesnt work, post again and give us a update.
First thing first, the experts on this site will need your make and model number. Its stamped on one of your valve covers. I am not one of the experts, but a tinkerer like yourself. I retired 6 months ago and needed to rebuild my 25hp briggs so I joined this forum and started watching vidios on google. Now after the rebuild she runs like new. Make use of both of those and you will never have a small engine in the shop.
Thats my advice now to your engine. Use gas instead of starter fluid to avoid the chance of engine damage. I would start with checking the pushrods and valve adjustment. There are some very good vidios on google if you dont know how. As I am unfamilar with your engine I dont know if it has a fuel siloniod on the carb, but if it does check the operation of it.(google) After doing this hook jumper cables to it and try to start again, several times. If it doesnt start pull plugs and clean if they are wet with oil. With plugs out turn engine over to clear cylinders. Reinstall plugs and try to start again. If this doesnt work, post again and give us a update.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
firstly your link is all messed up so you might like to try to upload the URL again.
Next use a teaspoon of fuel down the carb throat.
If it runs through the fuel, should be 10 to 15 seconds then you can assume that the engine is OK and you have a fuel supply problem to the carb.
If your engine has a fuel solenoid, check that it is working by replacing it with a bolt.
Runs ok = dodgy solenoid or wiring to it.
Give it a whirl & get back.
B
bertsmobile1
Hello all,
I have a Kohler Magnum 20 (or 18) powering a mid-90s Vermeer 620 woodchipper. All was running well 1-2 years ago until it sat over a Northeast winter.
The engine would not move when I tried to start it this summer. I added oil into each cylinder, let it sit, and eventually got the flywheel moving. After replacing the battery, it now cranks well but will not fire. Here's what I've done:
-Swapped out the gas and tank with fresh fuel and a clean pony tank with a new filter.
-Cleaned (fairly well) carb: removed rust and stains. Gasket is not in great condition but it seems to still provide a good seal. I have not adjusted any needles or screws.
-Used starting fluid sparingly (4-5 times); would fire but not start.
-Tested sparkplugs (two different types of plugs): both sparked, small, but still a spark.
As the video shows, there is oil spitting out the breather tube (dirty, too). I assume because there is too much oil in the cylinder from freeing it up. I removed the breather tube cap and gasket while starting in the video. I am going to change the oil next. Not sure what else to do.
I have successfully tinkered with some small engines in the past but I am far from an expert. Looking forward to utilizing this great resource. Thanks for all your advice!
I'm too new to post a link so bear with the copy, paste, and edit.
video: youtu [.] be/vkaayfp5IuE
-Buz
firstly your link is all messed up so you might like to try to upload the URL again.
Next use a teaspoon of fuel down the carb throat.
If it runs through the fuel, should be 10 to 15 seconds then you can assume that the engine is OK and you have a fuel supply problem to the carb.
If your engine has a fuel solenoid, check that it is working by replacing it with a bolt.
Runs ok = dodgy solenoid or wiring to it.
Give it a whirl & get back.
#4
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Thank you for your advice.
As I'm new- I cannot post a direct link. If you want to watch the video you have to remove the brackets and tighten it up.
I will try the fuel in carb next. Even if the oil is bad (dirty/too much), it should still fire up which narrows it down to a fuel or carb problem--correct?
As I'm new- I cannot post a direct link. If you want to watch the video you have to remove the brackets and tighten it up.
I will try the fuel in carb next. Even if the oil is bad (dirty/too much), it should still fire up which narrows it down to a fuel or carb problem--correct?
#5
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Thanks for the replies.
Adding a shot of gas into the carb results in a fire with the choke out. But it only fires and does not run beyond a second or two.
Kohler model #: M20S
Spec #: 49581
Serial#: 2422402276
The oil that blows out of the breather is grey. That's getting changed today- though I don't believe that's the source of my starting problem.
This model does not have a solenoid carb. I haven't seen a lot of this model engine on YouTube. There are a ton of newer courage engines in small tractors and lawn mowers. I have read that these engines often need a valve adjustment after sitting for extended periods.
As a new member, I can't paste a direct link, hence the the [ ]. If you paste the whole thing into a google search bar it is the first result "kohler Start". Thanks again!
Adding a shot of gas into the carb results in a fire with the choke out. But it only fires and does not run beyond a second or two.
Kohler model #: M20S
Spec #: 49581
Serial#: 2422402276
The oil that blows out of the breather is grey. That's getting changed today- though I don't believe that's the source of my starting problem.
This model does not have a solenoid carb. I haven't seen a lot of this model engine on YouTube. There are a ton of newer courage engines in small tractors and lawn mowers. I have read that these engines often need a valve adjustment after sitting for extended periods.
As a new member, I can't paste a direct link, hence the the [ ]. If you paste the whole thing into a google search bar it is the first result "kohler Start". Thanks again!
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry I did not know about the no-link for new members .
They made some changes a while back to deteer spammers, that must have been one of them.
If you are getting good fuel supply to the carb then.
Your carb is dirty and will need to come off, get fully stripped down and cleaned properly.
Should find step by step instructions here http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/
Grey oil is a sign that there is water in there and most likely some fuel as well so change it right now then again after the first hour or so
They made some changes a while back to deteer spammers, that must have been one of them.
If you are getting good fuel supply to the carb then.
Your carb is dirty and will need to come off, get fully stripped down and cleaned properly.
Should find step by step instructions here http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/
Grey oil is a sign that there is water in there and most likely some fuel as well so change it right now then again after the first hour or so
#7
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Update:
The original carb was beyond cleaning--with rust and broken gaskets. I found a cheap replacement which I installed and got the engine running nicely. I haven't done any adjustments on the new carb.
I changed the dirty and watery oil. I ordered a new filter which I'm still waiting to arrive. After changing the oil--twice--the dipstick is still showing grey oil after running the engine. Hopefully this will change when I put in the new filter?
---Two new issues are getting fuel into the carb and excessive smoking while running.
The engine seems to run healthily. A couple of high revs produced some rusty-looking exhaust, but it seems to run and idle fairly well....The gas problem allowed me to run it for about five minutes until the tank ran low. Upon starting up the first few times, then after shutting down, there was quite a bit of white smoke exiting out of and around the exhaust. I'm thinking once I get the filter and some continuously clean oil, that may subside.
Gas problem-- the gas only flows from a gravity-fed auxiliary tank I set up. When trying to feed from the factory tank, located below the engine, it will not draw fuel. Is there a mechanical fuel pump that could be stuck?
Thanks for the responses so far. They definitely got me on the right track!
--Buz
The original carb was beyond cleaning--with rust and broken gaskets. I found a cheap replacement which I installed and got the engine running nicely. I haven't done any adjustments on the new carb.
I changed the dirty and watery oil. I ordered a new filter which I'm still waiting to arrive. After changing the oil--twice--the dipstick is still showing grey oil after running the engine. Hopefully this will change when I put in the new filter?
---Two new issues are getting fuel into the carb and excessive smoking while running.
The engine seems to run healthily. A couple of high revs produced some rusty-looking exhaust, but it seems to run and idle fairly well....The gas problem allowed me to run it for about five minutes until the tank ran low. Upon starting up the first few times, then after shutting down, there was quite a bit of white smoke exiting out of and around the exhaust. I'm thinking once I get the filter and some continuously clean oil, that may subside.
Gas problem-- the gas only flows from a gravity-fed auxiliary tank I set up. When trying to feed from the factory tank, located below the engine, it will not draw fuel. Is there a mechanical fuel pump that could be stuck?
Thanks for the responses so far. They definitely got me on the right track!
--Buz
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
There could be either a mechanical or impulse fuel pump, kohler used both of them from time to time.
There is a kit available to convert from mechanical to impulse which will cause far fewer problems.
Follow the fuel lines from the tank.
If it goes into a "box" with 2 other tubes plugged into it it is an impulse pump.
If there are just 2 fuel lines then it is a mechanical pump.
Water will continue to come out for a long time.
I generally advise buying some cheap ( K-mart , HF, Walmart etc ) oil and do multiple oil changes with about 1/2 our to 1 hour between them.
When the last of the cheap oil goes in replace the filter and then after an hours mowing replace the oil with good quality mower oil.
Oil in the muffler & air box will ake some time to burn off but will do it eventually.
Run the moower for a good 5 to 10 minutes, shut it down then wait another minute.
Remove the dip stick.
If smoke comes out of the dip stick hole then the head gasket or rings are toast.
There is a kit available to convert from mechanical to impulse which will cause far fewer problems.
Follow the fuel lines from the tank.
If it goes into a "box" with 2 other tubes plugged into it it is an impulse pump.
If there are just 2 fuel lines then it is a mechanical pump.
Water will continue to come out for a long time.
I generally advise buying some cheap ( K-mart , HF, Walmart etc ) oil and do multiple oil changes with about 1/2 our to 1 hour between them.
When the last of the cheap oil goes in replace the filter and then after an hours mowing replace the oil with good quality mower oil.
Oil in the muffler & air box will ake some time to burn off but will do it eventually.
Run the moower for a good 5 to 10 minutes, shut it down then wait another minute.
Remove the dip stick.
If smoke comes out of the dip stick hole then the head gasket or rings are toast.
#9
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
It's a mechanical fuel pump. Do these just wear out over time/extended storage? The engine was running well about 2 years ago before it sat..
The kohler online parts catalog was useful in IDing it, and it's 70% cheaper on amazon...I'm still trying to locate the kit that converts to impulse --which is the same as a vacuum pump?
My gravity fed aux fuel tank has been helpful in getting the engine running but it burns through fuel. Is this because the fuel runs straight through the pump, unregulated?
The kohler online parts catalog was useful in IDing it, and it's 70% cheaper on amazon...I'm still trying to locate the kit that converts to impulse --which is the same as a vacuum pump?
My gravity fed aux fuel tank has been helpful in getting the engine running but it burns through fuel. Is this because the fuel runs straight through the pump, unregulated?
#10
B
bertsmobile1
Yes the vacuum pump & the impulse pump are one & the same thing,
The parts you need are a rocker cover with a hole in it , a pump & a cover plate to go over where the original pump was.
There was a kit that had a spigot in the cover plate but it is not a genuine Kohler part.
The amount of fuel you use has noting to do with what type of pump you are using, the carburettor controls the fuel.
If the float valve in the carb is not working properly then the fuel will vanish but it is most likely just an illusion if the gravity tank is small.
B
bertsmobile1
It's a mechanical fuel pump. Do these just wear out over time/extended storage? The engine was running well about 2 years ago before it sat..
The kohler online parts catalog was useful in IDing it, and it's 70% cheaper on amazon...I'm still trying to locate the kit that converts to impulse --which is the same as a vacuum pump?
My gravity fed aux fuel tank has been helpful in getting the engine running but it burns through fuel. Is this because the fuel runs straight through the pump, unregulated?
Yes the vacuum pump & the impulse pump are one & the same thing,
The parts you need are a rocker cover with a hole in it , a pump & a cover plate to go over where the original pump was.
There was a kit that had a spigot in the cover plate but it is not a genuine Kohler part.
The amount of fuel you use has noting to do with what type of pump you are using, the carburettor controls the fuel.
If the float valve in the carb is not working properly then the fuel will vanish but it is most likely just an illusion if the gravity tank is small.
#11
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Great information, thanks. Now that I've had some time to dedicate to it, it has been a fun little project. Very satisfying when it started and ran strong today. It even survived engaging the clutch for the spinning-knife-death-wheel. Now to investigate why the feeder is not engaging..
After tinkering more today, the disappearing gas was definitely an illusion from the tank. The spare tank seems to be working just fine until I can get the new pump. The smoke issue has also cleared up. So far I've changed the oil about 5 times. It's still dirty and very gray, less watery/more oily. I wonder if the old filter (been on for several years) is doing more harm than good?
I'm also not certain whether I should adjust the new carb. I haven't made any adjustments. It seems to run fine--though the throttle / governor sounds like its set low--I recall being able to rev higher.
This is one resilient little engine. From sitting and seized a few months ago it's great bringing it back from the dead.
After tinkering more today, the disappearing gas was definitely an illusion from the tank. The spare tank seems to be working just fine until I can get the new pump. The smoke issue has also cleared up. So far I've changed the oil about 5 times. It's still dirty and very gray, less watery/more oily. I wonder if the old filter (been on for several years) is doing more harm than good?
I'm also not certain whether I should adjust the new carb. I haven't made any adjustments. It seems to run fine--though the throttle / governor sounds like its set low--I recall being able to rev higher.
This is one resilient little engine. From sitting and seized a few months ago it's great bringing it back from the dead.
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yes, please change the filter.
Any mower filter will fit and the briggs one will be cheaper than the Kohler.
All the after market companies do a full range of mower filters @ about 1/2the price of the brand name ones
Get some of that Gray oil and wash it with some fuel then let it sit for a little while.
Pour off the oil / fuel mix enough to leave the grey in the bottom
Rub it between your fingers.
If it just feels slimey then it is just water.
If it feels grainy then it could be aluminium.
Any mower filter will fit and the briggs one will be cheaper than the Kohler.
All the after market companies do a full range of mower filters @ about 1/2the price of the brand name ones
Get some of that Gray oil and wash it with some fuel then let it sit for a little while.
Pour off the oil / fuel mix enough to leave the grey in the bottom
Rub it between your fingers.
If it just feels slimey then it is just water.
If it feels grainy then it could be aluminium.
#13
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
Not sure why that wasn't more obvious: installed new filter= clean oil... duh!
Question about the carburetor adjustment: I haven't made any adjustments to the replacement carb. Should I? Not sure why, but now engine cranks, fires, and runs for a few seconds before grumbling out. This is with low throttle. Any adjustment to the throttle/choke and it would sound like it wanted to rev up but instead it shutdown. Gas supply is good.
Question about the carburetor adjustment: I haven't made any adjustments to the replacement carb. Should I? Not sure why, but now engine cranks, fires, and runs for a few seconds before grumbling out. This is with low throttle. Any adjustment to the throttle/choke and it would sound like it wanted to rev up but instead it shutdown. Gas supply is good.
#15
B
buzbo
B
buzbo
So I've backed out the idle screw to set the idle as low as possible with no luck. I've also screwed it in to set the idle higher to see if it would fire and run. The main jet needle is set to two full turns in. I had it running for close to a minute with the choke out/half-way. Ultimately it shut down and I'm unable to get it running again.
A few drops of fuel in the intake will fire, run for 2-5 seconds, and putter out. I don't see any obstruction in the fuel supply. Engine was running well a few days ago-- but I shut it down because the oil was still watery. Now the oil is clean with a new filter, but I'm back to a carb problem..
A few drops of fuel in the intake will fire, run for 2-5 seconds, and putter out. I don't see any obstruction in the fuel supply. Engine was running well a few days ago-- but I shut it down because the oil was still watery. Now the oil is clean with a new filter, but I'm back to a carb problem..