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Kohler CH270 Command Pro 7 Electric Start Flywheel / Stator
#1
B
bob58p
B
bob58p
I have an Electric Start Kohler flywheel from what I believe was a CH270 Command Pro 7. I think there is a 3 amp charging system such as on CH270-3021 (with 17-025-30-S Flywheel and 17-085-09-S Stator) and a 10 amp charging system such as on CH270-3120 (with 17-025-21-S Flywheel and 17-085-07-S Stator).
The flywheel I have looks like it says TJ208A 170565, but it is hard to read and and those number could easily be wrong.
The other side says 1730024 F, BOD, YP3.
It has a ring gear, three charging magnets on the inside, and one ignition magnet on the outside.
How do I tell if it is a 3 amp, or 10 amp flywheel so I know which stator to order?
Do both the 3 amp and 10 systems output AC and need a rectifier regulator to charge a battery? Which rectifier/regulator would I need? Any 15 amp one should work right?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
The flywheel I have looks like it says TJ208A 170565, but it is hard to read and and those number could easily be wrong.
The other side says 1730024 F, BOD, YP3.
It has a ring gear, three charging magnets on the inside, and one ignition magnet on the outside.
How do I tell if it is a 3 amp, or 10 amp flywheel so I know which stator to order?
Do both the 3 amp and 10 systems output AC and need a rectifier regulator to charge a battery? Which rectifier/regulator would I need? Any 15 amp one should work right?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
#2
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Can't help with flywheel, but it looks like the 3 amp system may contain a diode to rectify the ac to dc, but is unregulated. the 10 amp system uses a rectifier/regulator.
#3
B
bob58p
Thanks. I'm actually using this flywheel on a Predator 212cc from Harbor Freight. It is a variation of a Honda gx200 clone that uses a crankshaft with the same taper as the Kohler CH270. I bought the a kit with the flywheel, the starter motor, the key box, and it came with a Honda clone coil. The guy I got it from bought an electric start/ charging conversion kit for a 196cc Honda clone engine and then got a Kohler Flywheel.
It just seems as though there are two magnets inside the flywheel on a Honda clone flywheel and three magnets inside this one.
The honda clone 3 amp coil appears to be a single coil with a single wire.
The Kohler 3 amp stator appears to be dual coils?
The Kohler 10 amp stator is of a different type. Star shaped?
Im guessing it is a three amp flywheel and I should use the stator used with the three amp flywheel. Which is the one that looks like two crescent shaped coils wired together. I think often higher amperage charging systems have more magnets inside the flywheel, but I'm just speculating here.
B
bob58p
Can't help with flywheel, but it looks like the 3 amp system may contain a diode to rectify the ac to dc, but is unregulated. the 10 amp system uses a rectifier/regulator.
Thanks. I'm actually using this flywheel on a Predator 212cc from Harbor Freight. It is a variation of a Honda gx200 clone that uses a crankshaft with the same taper as the Kohler CH270. I bought the a kit with the flywheel, the starter motor, the key box, and it came with a Honda clone coil. The guy I got it from bought an electric start/ charging conversion kit for a 196cc Honda clone engine and then got a Kohler Flywheel.
It just seems as though there are two magnets inside the flywheel on a Honda clone flywheel and three magnets inside this one.
The honda clone 3 amp coil appears to be a single coil with a single wire.
The Kohler 3 amp stator appears to be dual coils?
The Kohler 10 amp stator is of a different type. Star shaped?
Im guessing it is a three amp flywheel and I should use the stator used with the three amp flywheel. Which is the one that looks like two crescent shaped coils wired together. I think often higher amperage charging systems have more magnets inside the flywheel, but I'm just speculating here.
#4
NorthBama
NorthBama
I am more familiar with the Briggs coils and the size and number of the magnets the more amperage they put out. The one wire coil you have may have the other wire grounded to the engine. the coils produce ac voltage and use a diode or a voltage regulator to change the voltage to dc voltage to charge the battery. the one diode is unregulated and the coil that use the voltage regulator is regulated dc voltage which doesnt overcharge the battery and bubble out the electrolyte solution.
#5
B
bob58p
Thanks.
I was under the impression that coils with a single wire have a diode included? Thus they put out unregulated, but DC, voltage.
And that coils with two wire put out AC Voltage. This was about Honda coils and may not be correct.
I ordered the stator with dual coils 17 085 09-S. I only found one picture of it not in the diagrams. It appears to have a single wire.
How would I wire a coil with a single wire output to a three prong rectifier / regulator?
Coil Output to one of the AC inputs.
Wire the other AC input to the engine block (ground)?
Connect the positive DC output to the positive terminal on the battery?
B
bob58p
I am more familiar with the Briggs coils and the size and number of the magnets the more amperage they put out. The one wire coil you have may have the other wire grounded to the engine. the coils produce ac voltage and use a diode or a voltage regulator to change the voltage to dc voltage to charge the battery. the one diode is unregulated and the coil that use the voltage regulator is regulated dc voltage which doesnt overcharge the battery and bubble out the electrolyte solution.
Thanks.
I was under the impression that coils with a single wire have a diode included? Thus they put out unregulated, but DC, voltage.
And that coils with two wire put out AC Voltage. This was about Honda coils and may not be correct.
I ordered the stator with dual coils 17 085 09-S. I only found one picture of it not in the diagrams. It appears to have a single wire.
How would I wire a coil with a single wire output to a three prong rectifier / regulator?
Coil Output to one of the AC inputs.
Wire the other AC input to the engine block (ground)?
Connect the positive DC output to the positive terminal on the battery?
#6
B
bertsmobile1
You need 2 connections for electricity to flow so a single wire system uses the engine as the second ( Ground ) wire.
Honda have a habit of using insulated coils so they have 2 wires from the coil.
This system can still use a diode on either one of the wires.
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks.
I was under the impression that coils with a single wire have a diode included? Thus they put out unregulated, but DC, voltage.
And that coils with two wire put out AC Voltage. This was about Honda coils and may not be correct.
I ordered the stator with dual coils 17 085 09-S. I only found one picture of it not in the diagrams. It appears to have a single wire.
How would I wire a coil with a single wire output to a three prong rectifier / regulator?
Coil Output to one of the AC inputs.
Wire the other AC input to the engine block (ground)?
Connect the positive DC output to the positive terminal on the battery?
You need 2 connections for electricity to flow so a single wire system uses the engine as the second ( Ground ) wire.
Honda have a habit of using insulated coils so they have 2 wires from the coil.
This system can still use a diode on either one of the wires.
#7
NorthBama
NorthBama
I was under the impression that coils with a single wire have a diode included? Thus they put out unregulated, but DC, voltage.
And that coils with two wire put out AC Voltage.
your are correct the diode has ac coming in and half wave dc coming out. The 3 prong voltage regulator uses two wire ac in and one dc wire out( positive) and grounded regulator base for dc negative.
And that coils with two wire put out AC Voltage.
your are correct the diode has ac coming in and half wave dc coming out. The 3 prong voltage regulator uses two wire ac in and one dc wire out( positive) and grounded regulator base for dc negative.
#8
B
bob58p
B
bob58p
So If the single wire stator is using the engine block as "ground" for its output,
Can I simply run a jumper wire to the engine block from the second AC input on a three prong rectifier/regulator??? Will the rectifier regulator still work if the input is DC (if there is a diode(s) built into the stator)?
And since the three prong rectifier/regulator is using its mounting as "ground" or "-" for its DC output,
How will that work? Can I have a common ground for both the Coil output and Regulator output? Or will I need to mount the rectifier/regulator to keep it separate from the "ground" the coils use?
Thanks in advance
Bob
Can I simply run a jumper wire to the engine block from the second AC input on a three prong rectifier/regulator??? Will the rectifier regulator still work if the input is DC (if there is a diode(s) built into the stator)?
And since the three prong rectifier/regulator is using its mounting as "ground" or "-" for its DC output,
How will that work? Can I have a common ground for both the Coil output and Regulator output? Or will I need to mount the rectifier/regulator to keep it separate from the "ground" the coils use?
Thanks in advance
Bob
Attachments
#9
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Why are you trying to make it complicated. the 3 amp single wire stator uses the diode to rectifier it from AC to half wave DC. It will not work with a regulator. Plug the single wire straight into the positive post of the battery, and don't over think it. 3 Amp is about the same as a battery maintainer. It will recharge the battery after starting, and will actually take an hour or two to fully recharge the battery after starting.
I would have to research it for the 10 amp regulator, but I know for a fact that the Kohler 15 amp regulator/rectifier is actually half wave rectified. What you are proposing could either not work, and cause it to drain the battery to creating a short to ground from the stator and letting the smoke out.
I would have to research it for the 10 amp regulator, but I know for a fact that the Kohler 15 amp regulator/rectifier is actually half wave rectified. What you are proposing could either not work, and cause it to drain the battery to creating a short to ground from the stator and letting the smoke out.
#10
NorthBama
NorthBama
i agree with Ilengine if you need more than 3 amps you will need a coil with matching flywheel and voltage regulator
#11
B
bob58p
B
bob58p
I was afraid that I couldn't connect the output of the coil directly to the battery with no voltage regulator.
My engine will turn 6000 RPMs, not the governed 3600 or 4000 RPM.
I'm not sure the voltage or amperage output I might see at 6000 RPMs, which is why I wasn't sure If I could run directly to the battery.
The Key Box thing I have for the honda clone includes a key switch, a 5 amp - 125/250V AC 32V DC circuit breaker, and an inline fuse. The honda diagrams I see online also have a rectifier/diode in inside the keybox, but I don't see one in the box I have (unless it is inside the actual switch, or on the wire coming out of the box).
The wiring diagram makes it look like the coil goes to a diode/rectifier, then the circuit breaker, then the switch, then the fuse.
Then the other side of the switch goes to the starter solenoid, which is where I also connect the positive battery terminal if I am not mistaken.
Hoping I can just plug the Kohler Stator into the wire on the Honda Clone Key Box thing, then wire it up to the starter and battery as if it was a clone coil.
I will start playing around with this today, hopefully, but it is cold in Chicago.
My engine will turn 6000 RPMs, not the governed 3600 or 4000 RPM.
I'm not sure the voltage or amperage output I might see at 6000 RPMs, which is why I wasn't sure If I could run directly to the battery.
The Key Box thing I have for the honda clone includes a key switch, a 5 amp - 125/250V AC 32V DC circuit breaker, and an inline fuse. The honda diagrams I see online also have a rectifier/diode in inside the keybox, but I don't see one in the box I have (unless it is inside the actual switch, or on the wire coming out of the box).
The wiring diagram makes it look like the coil goes to a diode/rectifier, then the circuit breaker, then the switch, then the fuse.
Then the other side of the switch goes to the starter solenoid, which is where I also connect the positive battery terminal if I am not mistaken.
Hoping I can just plug the Kohler Stator into the wire on the Honda Clone Key Box thing, then wire it up to the starter and battery as if it was a clone coil.
I will start playing around with this today, hopefully, but it is cold in Chicago.
Attachments
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It does not matter where the diode is, just so long as it is in there and wired in the right direction.
Now if you think you are going to run the engine at 6000 rpm you are in for a shock.
they are not balanced well enough to do those speeds
they are not flowed to handle that volume of gas
the crank is not supported well enough to run those speeds
the crank is most likely not stiff enough to pull those speeds , particularly as it is a Preditor.
Now a Preditor self destructing is no great loss as they are throw away engines but just be wary of what is near the engine as flywheels have been known to shatter on over reved engines.
Also the power of the engine will drop off as revs increase and may very well be less than 1/2 the rated Hp fr the engine.
And if you think I am talking rubbish pop over to the racing mower forums and read some of the disasters that have happened to people who over reved the engines without substantial strengthening.
If you need more revs at whatever you are powering, gear up the engine's PTO.
Now if you think you are going to run the engine at 6000 rpm you are in for a shock.
they are not balanced well enough to do those speeds
they are not flowed to handle that volume of gas
the crank is not supported well enough to run those speeds
the crank is most likely not stiff enough to pull those speeds , particularly as it is a Preditor.
Now a Preditor self destructing is no great loss as they are throw away engines but just be wary of what is near the engine as flywheels have been known to shatter on over reved engines.
Also the power of the engine will drop off as revs increase and may very well be less than 1/2 the rated Hp fr the engine.
And if you think I am talking rubbish pop over to the racing mower forums and read some of the disasters that have happened to people who over reved the engines without substantial strengthening.
If you need more revs at whatever you are powering, gear up the engine's PTO.
#13
B
bob58p
I build up Predators. I have used a stock Predator Flywheel for an engine that spins 7000 RPM. On a minibike. Right under my manhood.
Predator Flywheels do not come apart. Show me one and I'll believe it. Otherwise it is just Propaganda spread by OMB.com.
Installed correctly and lapped to the crank, PREDATOR Flywheels do fine at 7k RPM. Stock Connecting Rods are way more likely to let go than the flywheel.
I have been on forums for years, with people who race karts, and nobody has ever witnessed a Predator 212 flywheel explode. Not one person. Everybody says that they do, but find me someone that witnessed it. I'll hold my breath. Big block engines or verticle shaft engines might be different. Predator Flywheels do not explode at 6 or 7k RPM.
Now I have never tried with a flywheel with magnets, so this will be new.
B
bob58p
It does not matter where the diode is, just so long as it is in there and wired in the right direction.
Now if you think you are going to run the engine at 6000 rpm you are in for a shock.
they are not balanced well enough to do those speeds
they are not flowed to handle that volume of gas
the crank is not supported well enough to run those speeds
the crank is most likely not stiff enough to pull those speeds , particularly as it is a Preditor.
Now a Preditor self destructing is no great loss as they are throw away engines but just be wary of what is near the engine as flywheels have been known to shatter on over reved engines.
Also the power of the engine will drop off as revs increase and may very well be less than 1/2 the rated Hp fr the engine.
And if you think I am talking rubbish pop over to the racing mower forums and read some of the disasters that have happened to people who over reved the engines without substantial strengthening.
If you need more revs at whatever you are powering, gear up the engine's PTO.
I build up Predators. I have used a stock Predator Flywheel for an engine that spins 7000 RPM. On a minibike. Right under my manhood.
Predator Flywheels do not come apart. Show me one and I'll believe it. Otherwise it is just Propaganda spread by OMB.com.
Installed correctly and lapped to the crank, PREDATOR Flywheels do fine at 7k RPM. Stock Connecting Rods are way more likely to let go than the flywheel.
I have been on forums for years, with people who race karts, and nobody has ever witnessed a Predator 212 flywheel explode. Not one person. Everybody says that they do, but find me someone that witnessed it. I'll hold my breath. Big block engines or verticle shaft engines might be different. Predator Flywheels do not explode at 6 or 7k RPM.
Now I have never tried with a flywheel with magnets, so this will be new.
#14
B
bob58p
I build up Predators. I have used a stock Predator Flywheel for an engine that spins 7000+ RPM. On a minibike. Right under my manhood.
Predator Flywheels do not come apart. Show me one and I'll believe it. Otherwise it is just Propaganda spread by OMB.com.
Installed correctly and lapped to the crank, PREDATOR Flywheels do fine at 7k RPM. Stock Connecting Rods are way more likely to let go than the flywheel.
I have been on forums for years, with people who race karts, and nobody has ever witnessed a Predator 212 flywheel explode. Not one person. Everybody says that they do, but find me someone that witnessed it. I'll hold my breath. Big block engines (390cc or 420cc) or verticle shaft engines might be different. Predator 212 Flywheels do not explode at 6 or 7k RPM.
Now I have never tried with a flywheel with charging magnets, so this will be new.
Stock Crankshafts do fine.
Blocks start to break around 30HP on these 6.5 HP engines.
My heads are usually ported and flow enough to spin 10,000 RPM if I had a camshaft to make power there.
My current engine spins 8500 RPM - using a billet flywheel and makes peak HP around 7k RPM and peak TQ over 4000 RPM.
B
bob58p
It does not matter where the diode is, just so long as it is in there and wired in the right direction.
Now if you think you are going to run the engine at 6000 rpm you are in for a shock.
they are not balanced well enough to do those speeds
they are not flowed to handle that volume of gas
the crank is not supported well enough to run those speeds
the crank is most likely not stiff enough to pull those speeds , particularly as it is a Preditor.
Now a Preditor self destructing is no great loss as they are throw away engines but just be wary of what is near the engine as flywheels have been known to shatter on over reved engines.
Also the power of the engine will drop off as revs increase and may very well be less than 1/2 the rated Hp fr the engine.
And if you think I am talking rubbish pop over to the racing mower forums and read some of the disasters that have happened to people who over reved the engines without substantial strengthening.
If you need more revs at whatever you are powering, gear up the engine's PTO.
I build up Predators. I have used a stock Predator Flywheel for an engine that spins 7000+ RPM. On a minibike. Right under my manhood.
Predator Flywheels do not come apart. Show me one and I'll believe it. Otherwise it is just Propaganda spread by OMB.com.
Installed correctly and lapped to the crank, PREDATOR Flywheels do fine at 7k RPM. Stock Connecting Rods are way more likely to let go than the flywheel.
I have been on forums for years, with people who race karts, and nobody has ever witnessed a Predator 212 flywheel explode. Not one person. Everybody says that they do, but find me someone that witnessed it. I'll hold my breath. Big block engines (390cc or 420cc) or verticle shaft engines might be different. Predator 212 Flywheels do not explode at 6 or 7k RPM.
Now I have never tried with a flywheel with charging magnets, so this will be new.
Stock Crankshafts do fine.
Blocks start to break around 30HP on these 6.5 HP engines.
My heads are usually ported and flow enough to spin 10,000 RPM if I had a camshaft to make power there.
My current engine spins 8500 RPM - using a billet flywheel and makes peak HP around 7k RPM and peak TQ over 4000 RPM.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
No experience with Preditor engines.
Have seen quite a few briggs & kohler let go when owners tried to "make em rev".
Sold quite a few used engines to the said same unfortunates.
Built up a couple of fast Briggs for the local mower racers but there is not much left of the original left by the time get finished .
I play with vintage & veteran motrcycles mainly and have seen countless blow up cause by owners who thought they could get 2000 more rpm out of an engine without rebalancing the engine.
Seen a few spend thousands and end up with less Hp than the stock engine.
If you know what you are dong fine but from the tone of your original posts seemed you were a bit out on a limb.
remember we only know what you tell us and have to make judgements on technical compenticy based upon what we read.
B
bertsmobile1
I build up Predators. I have used a stock Predator Flywheel for an engine that spins 7000+ RPM. On a minibike. Right under my manhood.
Predator Flywheels do not come apart. Show me one and I'll believe it. Otherwise it is just Propaganda spread by OMB.com.
Installed correctly and lapped to the crank, PREDATOR Flywheels do fine at 7k RPM. Stock Connecting Rods are way more likely to let go than the flywheel.
I have been on forums for years, with people who race karts, and nobody has ever witnessed a Predator 212 flywheel explode. Not one person. Everybody says that they do, but find me someone that witnessed it. I'll hold my breath. Big block engines (390cc or 420cc) or verticle shaft engines might be different. Predator 212 Flywheels do not explode at 6 or 7k RPM.
Now I have never tried with a flywheel with charging magnets, so this will be new.
Stock Crankshafts do fine.
Blocks start to break around 30HP on these 6.5 HP engines.
My heads are usually ported and flow enough to spin 10,000 RPM if I had a camshaft to make power there.
My current engine spins 8500 RPM - using a billet flywheel and makes peak HP around 7k RPM and peak TQ over 4000 RPM.
No experience with Preditor engines.
Have seen quite a few briggs & kohler let go when owners tried to "make em rev".
Sold quite a few used engines to the said same unfortunates.
Built up a couple of fast Briggs for the local mower racers but there is not much left of the original left by the time get finished .
I play with vintage & veteran motrcycles mainly and have seen countless blow up cause by owners who thought they could get 2000 more rpm out of an engine without rebalancing the engine.
Seen a few spend thousands and end up with less Hp than the stock engine.
If you know what you are dong fine but from the tone of your original posts seemed you were a bit out on a limb.
remember we only know what you tell us and have to make judgements on technical compenticy based upon what we read.