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Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . . .
#1
G
G_TX
G
G_TX
Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . . .
Hi, first time poster here. I’ve been reading here for a while, and have so far found a lot of good advice in my research for a mower.
So the engine on our riding mower finally crapped out (the infamous Kohler Courage). We have always wanted a Zero Turn and I guess it’s now or never. We will be maintaining about 2 to 2 ½ acres with the mower. I know most of you guys are professionals and use commercial grade units. I would love to get one, but it really looks like you have to spend at least $6,000 or more to get into one of those. I would really like to stay around $4500 to $5500 for a mower with 52" cut. So, it looks like we will probably have to stick with a residential grade mower. I have looked at many brands so far, and have been comparing their features (build quality, engines, hydros). I am kind of leaning towards Scag, Snapper and Gravely, but open to anything.
So my questions are regarding these 3 different residential grade engine series; Kawasaki FR series, Kohler 7000 series and Briggs & Stratton Commercial series. These 3 seem to power just about all of the units that I have looked at in this price range. I know that most people will be biased towards or against a certain brand, but I just want to know (of these particular series) if I should avoid one because it has common major issues, or if I should choose one because it has been shown to last longer. Thanks for any input you may have.
Hi, first time poster here. I’ve been reading here for a while, and have so far found a lot of good advice in my research for a mower.
So the engine on our riding mower finally crapped out (the infamous Kohler Courage). We have always wanted a Zero Turn and I guess it’s now or never. We will be maintaining about 2 to 2 ½ acres with the mower. I know most of you guys are professionals and use commercial grade units. I would love to get one, but it really looks like you have to spend at least $6,000 or more to get into one of those. I would really like to stay around $4500 to $5500 for a mower with 52" cut. So, it looks like we will probably have to stick with a residential grade mower. I have looked at many brands so far, and have been comparing their features (build quality, engines, hydros). I am kind of leaning towards Scag, Snapper and Gravely, but open to anything.
So my questions are regarding these 3 different residential grade engine series; Kawasaki FR series, Kohler 7000 series and Briggs & Stratton Commercial series. These 3 seem to power just about all of the units that I have looked at in this price range. I know that most people will be biased towards or against a certain brand, but I just want to know (of these particular series) if I should avoid one because it has common major issues, or if I should choose one because it has been shown to last longer. Thanks for any input you may have.
#2
John R
John R
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I have a Scag and I'm very happy with it.
Try all of the ones your interested in, then buy the one that calls out to you.
I have a Scag and I'm very happy with it.
Try all of the ones your interested in, then buy the one that calls out to you.
#3
Carscw
Carscw
Do not buy a mower just because of the engine.
I like the Kohler because they have lasted the longest for me. But if I like a mowers deck and other features I will buy it. If it has a Briggs or a Kawasaki engine.
All three make good engines. Like with anything you will get a bad one sometimes.
For a homeowner cutting 2 acres I say just get the mower you like.
I like the Kohler because they have lasted the longest for me. But if I like a mowers deck and other features I will buy it. If it has a Briggs or a Kawasaki engine.
All three make good engines. Like with anything you will get a bad one sometimes.
For a homeowner cutting 2 acres I say just get the mower you like.
#4
G
G_TX
G
G_TX
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
After looking at many different mowers, I am leaning towards one of the following;
Snapper 550Z 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR730V, 24HP or Briggs & Stratton Commercial Series, 25HP)
Gravely ZT HD 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR691V, 23HP or Kohler 7000 series, 25HP)
Skag Freedom Z 52" (Only one engine option = Kohler 7000 series, 24HP)
I wouldn't base my choice on only what engine they had, but with the Snapper and Gravely there are a couple of engine choices. This is why I am curious if one of these engine series has had major issues or would last longer.
The Snapper and Gravely both have ZT-3100s, and the Skag has ZT-2800 but it also weighs less. The snapper does have greasable spindle bearings, but not sure if this will make them last longer, as it is still a residential series mower. They all seem to have heavy chain-hung mower decks. All three have 20" drive tires, the Gravely and Snapper have 13" front tires with the Skag having 11" front tires.
So all three mower options appear to be well made and similar in many ways, with the biggest difference between them being what engine to go with . . . this is why I ask if there is one that I should avoid. I have read here that many of B&S Commercial series have developed oil leaks, but not sure if that should sway my opinion of them. Thanks again for the help.
After looking at many different mowers, I am leaning towards one of the following;
Snapper 550Z 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR730V, 24HP or Briggs & Stratton Commercial Series, 25HP)
Gravely ZT HD 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR691V, 23HP or Kohler 7000 series, 25HP)
Skag Freedom Z 52" (Only one engine option = Kohler 7000 series, 24HP)
I wouldn't base my choice on only what engine they had, but with the Snapper and Gravely there are a couple of engine choices. This is why I am curious if one of these engine series has had major issues or would last longer.
The Snapper and Gravely both have ZT-3100s, and the Skag has ZT-2800 but it also weighs less. The snapper does have greasable spindle bearings, but not sure if this will make them last longer, as it is still a residential series mower. They all seem to have heavy chain-hung mower decks. All three have 20" drive tires, the Gravely and Snapper have 13" front tires with the Skag having 11" front tires.
So all three mower options appear to be well made and similar in many ways, with the biggest difference between them being what engine to go with . . . this is why I ask if there is one that I should avoid. I have read here that many of B&S Commercial series have developed oil leaks, but not sure if that should sway my opinion of them. Thanks again for the help.
#5
S
Sgreenlee6
S
Sgreenlee6
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
Interested what you ended up going with in the end and how it worked out. I'm in the market for a 48" zero turn (downsize from my 60") have had 2 kawasaki engines in my 2 hustlers and uncertain about the kohler 7000s. Thanks in advance.
After looking at many different mowers, I am leaning towards one of the following;
Snapper 550Z 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR730V, 24HP or Briggs & Stratton Commercial Series, 25HP)
Gravely ZT HD 52" (Engine Options = Kawasaki FR691V, 23HP or Kohler 7000 series, 25HP)
Skag Freedom Z 52" (Only one engine option = Kohler 7000 series, 24HP)
I wouldn't base my choice on only what engine they had, but with the Snapper and Gravely there are a couple of engine choices. This is why I am curious if one of these engine series has had major issues or would last longer.
The Snapper and Gravely both have ZT-3100s, and the Skag has ZT-2800 but it also weighs less. The snapper does have greasable spindle bearings, but not sure if this will make them last longer, as it is still a residential series mower. They all seem to have heavy chain-hung mower decks. All three have 20" drive tires, the Gravely and Snapper have 13" front tires with the Skag having 11" front tires.
So all three mower options appear to be well made and similar in many ways, with the biggest difference between them being what engine to go with . . . this is why I ask if there is one that I should avoid. I have read here that many of B&S Commercial series have developed oil leaks, but not sure if that should sway my opinion of them. Thanks again for the help.
Interested what you ended up going with in the end and how it worked out. I'm in the market for a 48" zero turn (downsize from my 60") have had 2 kawasaki engines in my 2 hustlers and uncertain about the kohler 7000s. Thanks in advance.
#6
J
Jack17
J
Jack17
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
So I was getting some lumber for my project the other day and stumbled onto this beast: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cub-Cade...-Mower-with-Bluetooth-RZT-L-46H-FAB/206495430
Can a "residential" guy ask for anything better then that?:thumbsup:
So I was getting some lumber for my project the other day and stumbled onto this beast: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cub-Cade...-Mower-with-Bluetooth-RZT-L-46H-FAB/206495430
Can a "residential" guy ask for anything better then that?:thumbsup:
#7
NorthBama
NorthBama
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
Wow Bluetooth also
Wow Bluetooth also
#8
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I too have been intrigued by this mower. My local Home Depot finally has one on display and I can say that the front wheels and foot platform are beefy looking. I am a big fan of Honda small engines and would have liked to see this engine in something other than a Cub Cadet; maybe a Toro or Husqvarna. I think the biggest turn-off is the reverse mower lockout that has to be defeated via key and button and the fact that there is no engine guard. Otherwise, if the engine is what you want, this is the only model short of the 42" stamped deck that you can get it on.
So I was getting some lumber for my project the other day and stumbled onto this beast: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cub-Cade...-Mower-with-Bluetooth-RZT-L-46H-FAB/206495430
Can a "residential" guy ask for anything better then that?:thumbsup:
I too have been intrigued by this mower. My local Home Depot finally has one on display and I can say that the front wheels and foot platform are beefy looking. I am a big fan of Honda small engines and would have liked to see this engine in something other than a Cub Cadet; maybe a Toro or Husqvarna. I think the biggest turn-off is the reverse mower lockout that has to be defeated via key and button and the fact that there is no engine guard. Otherwise, if the engine is what you want, this is the only model short of the 42" stamped deck that you can get it on.
#9
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
As for engines, I cannot say much as I just got into to the rider market, but I do know that my Briggs ELS with the "Nikki" carb may be known for having surging issues and need to be rebuilt after some time; at least mine does.
As for engines, I cannot say much as I just got into to the rider market, but I do know that my Briggs ELS with the "Nikki" carb may be known for having surging issues and need to be rebuilt after some time; at least mine does.
#10
J
Jack17
J
Jack17
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I gave it a "once over" and only thing I didn't like about that set up was the 2200 hundred series transmissions. I'd pay more $ for 3400's if they were available. Other then that...I liked it!
I gave it a "once over" and only thing I didn't like about that set up was the 2200 hundred series transmissions. I'd pay more $ for 3400's if they were available. Other then that...I liked it!
#11
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
You just cannot find anything under $3500 with serviceable hydrostatics and even at that price they would be ZT-2800s. I think this engine would be great, but maybe greater in a different make or model. If you read the online reviews of this exact mower, most give the engine praise over anything else. I would think a great mower would be great with any engine (Kaw, Briggs, Kohler, etc.) so long as it wasn't underpowered. But a really good engine alone cannot make an average mower great. At the end of the day, each person has to choose what is most important, engine, deck style, features, BTS, and so on. I think a 22-24 HP of most any newer v-twins are going to work just fine for most consumers if properly maintained. Little things like reading the ENGINE'S operators manual and not just the mowers will provide some insight into how to maintain based on the manufacturer who actually designed and engineered the engine. For example, I have seen in operators manuals where it says to reduce the engine to minimum throttle and let idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting the engine off. Who does this?
I gave it a "once over" and only thing I didn't like about that set up was the 2200 hundred series transmissions. I'd pay more $ for 3400's if they were available. Other then that...I liked it!
You just cannot find anything under $3500 with serviceable hydrostatics and even at that price they would be ZT-2800s. I think this engine would be great, but maybe greater in a different make or model. If you read the online reviews of this exact mower, most give the engine praise over anything else. I would think a great mower would be great with any engine (Kaw, Briggs, Kohler, etc.) so long as it wasn't underpowered. But a really good engine alone cannot make an average mower great. At the end of the day, each person has to choose what is most important, engine, deck style, features, BTS, and so on. I think a 22-24 HP of most any newer v-twins are going to work just fine for most consumers if properly maintained. Little things like reading the ENGINE'S operators manual and not just the mowers will provide some insight into how to maintain based on the manufacturer who actually designed and engineered the engine. For example, I have seen in operators manuals where it says to reduce the engine to minimum throttle and let idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting the engine off. Who does this?
#12
primerbulb120
primerbulb120
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
Someone may already have suggested this, but if I were you I'd look at a used commercial model instead of a new homeowner model. I paid $1800 for my Gravely Compact Pro 44, which sells for $5500 new. It had around 400 hours on it at the time of purchase.
Of the three models you posted, I'd go with the Gravely. :thumbsup:
Someone may already have suggested this, but if I were you I'd look at a used commercial model instead of a new homeowner model. I paid $1800 for my Gravely Compact Pro 44, which sells for $5500 new. It had around 400 hours on it at the time of purchase.
Of the three models you posted, I'd go with the Gravely. :thumbsup:
#13
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
Some commercial users are "particular" about the care and maintenance of their mowers. If you think about it, some of these guys, especially the smaller companies, cannot afford for equipment failures so they tend to maintain their stuff to the best of their abilities. In this case you may end up with a machine that was well cared for and will have plenty of useful life left. But as with all equipment, there are wearable parts that will ultimately need to be replaced. On the flip side, some bigger companies expect a certain amount of use out of a machine and once it has served it's purpose, they unload them for a newer model. Could be a roll of the dice....
Someone may already have suggested this, but if I were you I'd look at a used commercial model instead of a new homeowner model. I paid $1800 for my Gravely Compact Pro 44, which sells for $5500 new. It had around 400 hours on it at the time of purchase.
Of the three models you posted, I'd go with the Gravely. :thumbsup:
Some commercial users are "particular" about the care and maintenance of their mowers. If you think about it, some of these guys, especially the smaller companies, cannot afford for equipment failures so they tend to maintain their stuff to the best of their abilities. In this case you may end up with a machine that was well cared for and will have plenty of useful life left. But as with all equipment, there are wearable parts that will ultimately need to be replaced. On the flip side, some bigger companies expect a certain amount of use out of a machine and once it has served it's purpose, they unload them for a newer model. Could be a roll of the dice....
#14
Ric
Ric
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I have a question... why are you as a residential owner worrying about serviceable hydro-statics drives??
You just cannot find anything under $3500 with serviceable hydrostatics and even at that price they would be ZT-2800s. I think this engine would be great, but maybe greater in a different make or model. If you read the online reviews of this exact mower, most give the engine praise over anything else. I would think a great mower would be great with any engine (Kaw, Briggs, Kohler, etc.) so long as it wasn't underpowered. But a really good engine alone cannot make an average mower great. At the end of the day, each person has to choose what is most important, engine, deck style, features, BTS, and so on. I think a 22-24 HP of most any newer v-twins are going to work just fine for most consumers if properly maintained. Little things like reading the ENGINE'S operators manual and not just the mowers will provide some insight into how to maintain based on the manufacturer who actually designed and engineered the engine. For example, I have seen in operators manuals where it says to reduce the engine to minimum throttle and let idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting the engine off. Who does this?
I have a question... why are you as a residential owner worrying about serviceable hydro-statics drives??
#15
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I personally don't worry about them as none of my mowers have had them. I was just saying that there are not many options below that price point with them. Having something that can be services should offer greater reliability/longer service life. Plus, you do not get anything over 7mph ground speed until you get up into a serviceable unit because of the higher capacity pump and what not. If someone wants to cut their mowing time down via increased speed, without the worry of being too hard on their machine, then a serviceable hydrostatic should help in that regard.
I have a question... why are you as a residential owner worrying about serviceable hydro-statics drives??
I personally don't worry about them as none of my mowers have had them. I was just saying that there are not many options below that price point with them. Having something that can be services should offer greater reliability/longer service life. Plus, you do not get anything over 7mph ground speed until you get up into a serviceable unit because of the higher capacity pump and what not. If someone wants to cut their mowing time down via increased speed, without the worry of being too hard on their machine, then a serviceable hydrostatic should help in that regard.
#16
Ric
Ric
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I was just curious because many residential users think the oil in drives need changing every year and that's fine if your accumulating the hours on the mower but 400 plus hours a year is hard to get unless you have a load of land to be mowed. Both my mowers needed service (first change) at 75 hrs then again every 500 hours according to Toro and the ZM are 3400 drives and the stander is separate pumps and wheel motors.
I personally don't worry about them as none of my mowers have had them. I was just saying that there are not many options below that price point with them. Having something that can be services should offer greater reliability/longer service life. Plus, you do not get anything over 7mph ground speed until you get up into a serviceable unit because of the higher capacity pump and what not. If someone wants to cut their mowing time down via increased speed, without the worry of being too hard on their machine, then a serviceable hydrostatic should help in that regard.
I was just curious because many residential users think the oil in drives need changing every year and that's fine if your accumulating the hours on the mower but 400 plus hours a year is hard to get unless you have a load of land to be mowed. Both my mowers needed service (first change) at 75 hrs then again every 500 hours according to Toro and the ZM are 3400 drives and the stander is separate pumps and wheel motors.
#17
7394
7394
Re: Known major problems; Kohler 7000, Kawasaki FR, Briggs & Stratton Commercial . .
I do, & mainly because I build H-D engines. And my Kawasaki engine is being operated as Kaw intended for it to be.
For example, I have seen in operators manuals where it says to reduce the engine to minimum throttle and let idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting the engine off. Who does this?
I do, & mainly because I build H-D engines. And my Kawasaki engine is being operated as Kaw intended for it to be.