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This is my first post here on the forum so let me start out by saying "howdy folks, thanks for having me"; and apologizing if I'm asking something that's already been covered. I kinda did a quick look around for an answer, but didn't find it and don't seem to know the right string of words to find it with the search feature.

I was wondering about compatibility between FR691V models. My Hustler FasTrak has the FR691V CS14R. There are several FR691V models listed and I was told by one engine sales company that the engine is the same and the suffix to the engine number is specific to the manufacturer and really just determines the size of the shaft.

I have 88 hours on my mower and I bought it 7/31/14 and it's burning a lot of oil. It's in the shop now and it sounds like they're gonna do a compression check to see if the rings are bad or the cylinder walls are scored. They found a lot of dirt in the intake and are trying to say I haven't taken care of the air filter. Also, I use the Rotary aftermarket filters that my uncle gives me. He has a lawn mower/ small engine repair shop next door to me and works on this stuff all the time (I took mine to the dealer because it's under warranty). At any rate, the manual says clean the air filter every so many hours (I don't pay attention to that since I remove it and blow it out with a compressor every time I finish mowing) and change every 200 hours. I just put my 4th air filter in this mower, they are free to me.......I walk over to my uncles shop and get it, no charge.......same with the oil filters. He does charge me 21 bucks for a set of blades.

It seems to all be coming down, for now anyway, to me having done poor maintenance or they think I might have run it low on oil. My fault either way. I'm just wondering, in a worse case scenario how all the 691V variants swap out with each other. If I wind up having to buy a replacement engine, how would I know what is compatible with mine?

Thanks so much,
Rodney

88 hours is nothing! That is about the same as 8,000 miles on an auto engine. If you have put 4 air filters on it in that amount of time it is hard to believe you are not doing proper maintenance.

Rodney, I have a few questions for you.
Have you read and understood the recommendations found in the operators manual?
Particularly where is states "do not use pressurized air to clean paper element"!!!!
Do you understand the engine oil recommendations in the operators manual?
Do you understand how to correctly check the engine oil level?
I am not trying to insult you, just attempting to get to the source of your engine problem.
However, your already expressed maintenance procedures are problematic to say the least.
A few thoughts from a retired mech.

I am assuming the filter discussed is a paper element. If so, the groundrule against air pressure is it will drive and pack the dirt in, not remove it, even if directed in the "proper" direction. The only thing I do with my Intek cartridge is tap it on a flat surface , paper filter "fins" down. Then I give it the daylight test , holding up to the light . Even if light shows I make a further judgement of how clogged/dirty it is. To me the condition of the thin, green, oiled pre-filter is also a clue. After "mowing" in a dirty, dusty area where I am eating dust I often just change the air filter. Although $15 a pop it is cheap insurance as "dust" is an abrasive which can quickly destroy the cylinder and piston rings. After changing to a fresh air filter I can usually hear the engine running smoother, thanking me. The way the filter is seated is also important. The Intek filter has apparently caused a lot of problems because it can appear being properly seated when it is not. I usually also poke a finger into the intake to see if there is a coating. Even if a coating feels very fine, consider auto wax cleaner or glasstop stove cleaner and what they do to surfaces.:thumbsup:

I went back and re-read my post, that was kind of confusing; I should have done a better job proofreading.
I blow the whole mower off with my air compressor when I get finished mowing, I used to wash it but was told that it was really best to just blow it off with air. I do blow out that little foam pre filter with the air hose, but the paper filter I just tap around on until dirt stops falling out of it. I don't know of any way to do a visual inspection to tell when one needs to be replaced or not, whenever they reached a point that they looked like they weren't coming clean when I would shake them out I just replaced them. I have been told to oil that foam pre-filter by some people and not to by other people.... that didn't even come on it from the factory anyway, but it seemed like I shouldn't put oil on it to me because it was going against a paper filter. I just used it dry.
When I check the oil, I do it per instructions on the dipstick (NOT threaded in). I bought oil according to the chart in the book for the temperature range I expected to be operating the mower in.
I drive an 18 wheeler for a living, and have since 1993.... I'm pretty familiar with pre-trip inspection since it's a legal requirement of my job. I am absolutely not a mechanic, I'm a driver.... but fluid checks and pm/service etc... seem like something I don't even think about, it's just part of everyday life for me.

Also, thanks for the replies...I appreciate the help.

This whole thread is bringing back memories from around 1976-77; my dad actually took the belt off a tiller and beat me until my legs were nearly raw ( CPS would have him under the jail for that these days). I was 10 or 11 and thought I was being helpful when I filled that tiller with oil.........I figured out if I'd tilt it over so that the oil fill hole was level I could get more oil in it.....and I did. I sure knew he was gonna be proud when he opened that cap and oil was to the top. It was beyond to the top, it came pouring out.........the whoopin' commenced shortly thereafter with us doing the circle dance and him telling me more oil was as bad as no oil.....I learned to check the oil before I cranked anything. Maybe more kids could use some of that these days, pain is a helluva teacher!!! :wink:

To heck with the dealer, with only 88 hours and less than 2 years of ownership, I'd contact Kawasaki directly and tell them what the dealer is trying to pull on you.

Hi Rodney,
Now we are getting somewhere!!
The Kawasaki parts manual doesn't show a foam prefilter for your engine.
The Rotary aftermarket air filter P/N 12758 doesn't show it either.
Tapping the air filter is the best way to clean it, however it actually filters dirt better when somewhat dirty.
I judge air filter replacement by looking at the whiteness of the interior of the filter compared to a new one. When the interior starts to darken slightly, then I replace it.
There is inlet piping on your engine that connects the spout of the air filter to the inlet of the carb, is this area OK and secure?
Usually the crankcase breather pipe is connected to the filtered air side of the incoming air. If this pipe is not correctly installed, then dirty air will get into the engine. Using compressed air in the wrong place can blow the breather pipe/tube out of place. I clean my machines with compressed air and I have dislodged the breather tube on my Scag ZTR with a Briggs Commercial Turf engine. Didn't notice it until I saw an oily film accumulating around the area. So when I blow off the machine I avoid that area of the engine.
There may very well be a problem with your engine that you did not cause or contribute to.
After your dealer evaluates the engine, I would call Kawasaki direct regardless of what the dealers diagnosis happens to be.
As for replacement engine information, the spec number of your engine is related to the machine manufacturers requirements. Replacement engines are more generic in their spec numbers although certain spec numbers are a direct replacement for your engine.
The crankshaft length and diameter being the primary concern.
Kawasaki makes three models of the 691V engine. FR691V being the lowest level, FS691V being next and the FX691V being the top of the line. The FX engines have a two stage HD air filtration system as standard equipment. You can go the Kawasaki small engine website and check them out.
Let us know what your dealer diagnosis is.

The foam pre-filter was one my uncle gave me....he told me it would give a little extra protection. I'm usually pretty careful when blowing, but I do cup the opening of the air inlet hose to block anything from being blown down there.....I take the filter off to be able to clean that area......it's totally possible that I dislodged it with my hand not realizing it. I usually tighten the clamp back around the filter pretty good. They were supposed to do the compression leak down test today but didn't, I'm kind of losing patience with them. They've had it two weeks.
I have decided that IF I have to replace the engine, I'll go back with the FX series just for the extra filtration offered in the canister filter. I've found the 1" X 80mm model that corresponds to my current engine.
It's sandy here, I'm painfully aware of that, I thought I was doing good by changing those filters more often and trying to clean them after every use.

I appreciate all the replies and will follow up after hearing from the dealer.

As a side note, the young lady working on my mower told me early on she was out of her element with this issue and seeking help via phone calls with Kawasaki tech. I think she's overwhelmed to tell the truth. The dealer I bought it from has three locations but it seems the others don't want to help her out. I think I'll probably call Kawasaki tomorrow and seek some council on how to proceed. The lady is real nice, but honestly.......my uncle would have had this out of his shop days ago. He's NOT a warranty shop, and that's the ONLY reason I didn't take it to him.

Again, thanks so much guys; I really appreciate all the help,
Rodney

Hi Rodney,
I had a feeling that you were in a dusty area. ZTRs by their nature of design are dusty machines that directly affect the engine incoming air both for combustion and cooling. I use a collection system on my Scag Tiger Cub which increases the dust problem as the collection bags are just inches from the incoming engine air.
As I have been a power equipment mech at various times in my life, I am keenly aware of how important it is to provide the cleanest air possible to an engine. In retirement I do some service work and do lawn care about 3 day a week.
The 26 HP Briggs Intek/ELS that came as original power on my Scag had a problem filtering air and providing sufficient cooling to both cylinders. This engine was replaced at 472 HRS and I had originally intended to repower with an FX730V model which is the engine that is on my Hustler X-ONE. The cost of this repower was almost three times the cost of the 30 HP Briggs Commercial Turf engine that I finally went with, this engine is working out fine for me.
As for repowering your machine if it comes to that, the price of an FR691V is close to the price of an FX691V. The FS and FX engines have a solenoid shift type starter motor whereas the FR is the Bendix type that needs a separate starter solenoid.
I always tell the folks that I do repowers for that they need to make the decision about keeping their repowered machine and using it as they will not get their money back doing an expensive repower and selling the machine. Using the machine is the only way that they will receive any amount of recovery of the cost of repowering.
An upgrade of power on a machine causes it to no longer be a production machine relative to model number and parts identification in manufacturers parts and service manuals. This usually pushes down the resale value of the machine unfortunately even with a new engine on warranty.
Keep us up dated as to the sequence of events that you encounter with this machine.

Thanks Mackie for the added info. on FX series. Do you see any reason the FX (given proper clearance for the canister filter system) wouldn't be a direct drop in for the FR? I'll keep the machine, I'm otherwise very happy with it. If I have to repower, I won't until this engine totally craps out. I WILL go get my mower today and get it to another shop. The lady told me Saturday that even if it can be repaired with a ring job (instead of trashed), she can't do it.... she'd have to take it to the other location, 100 miles from her.
It's been a fairly frustrating two weeks, I just want to get it to someone competent.
In the final resolution, if they determine the cylinder walls are scored and the engine can't be saved, why not run it until it craps out?...... that could take another 80 hours... or more.

Good morning Rodney,
I understand your frustration having been on both sides of the counter in service shops.
I do repower business with Small Engine Warehouse, Tulsa Engine Warehouse and Equipatron.com. You can go to their websites and checkout the Kawasaki engines that are suitable for your machine and educate yourself. My most recent repower engines have come from Equipatron.com. I usually have the customer place the order and receive the engine, this simplifies the warranty as I am not a dealer for any small engine line. I then pickup the engine, do the repower and deliver the machine back to them.
I'm puzzled as to why the dealer hasn't performed a simple diagnostic test on your engine which is a leakdown test. This test quickly indicates where there is compression leakage and the leakage rate. This test doesn't show why there is excessive oil consumption, but the results will indicate what may be causing the oil consumption.
Kawasaki doesn't provide mufflers, so the exhaust system is a Hustler supplied part. Your muffler should fit onto an FX691V engine and the FX engine should be a direct fit onto your machine as it has Kawasaki power originally. You need to research in the Hustler parts manuals on line to be sure of the repower and be confident and or aware of any situations. Your FR engine has a separate starter solenoid, with an FX repower, this solenoid will be removed as the FX engine has a solenoid shift starter. The positive battery cable will need to be replaced with a longer one and connected to the terminal on the starter motor. Also the small wire on the solenoid that comes from the key switch will need to be extended and connected to the starter motor.
The control cables, fuel line, clutch and drive pulley should swap over to the new engine as long as the crankshaft dimensions are the same.
The suns is shining and I need to get mowing, have a great day!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

My dealer called and said the compression check was good and they really can't find anything wrong with the engine.... They are going to put a Kawasaki air filter back on with an oil foam filter around it, change the spark plugs, change the oil to 20W50 and new oil filter. They want me to take it home and keep an eye on it and just report to them what my findings are after a few hours of operation. I will do my best to post an update after I run it a couple of hours.

Before I left the dealer, they took me into the shop and the mechanic discussed a few things with me...most notably, do not oil the foam pre-filter on Kawasaki engines. Shop notes on my ticket stated both cylinders check at 120 for compression. I will take it home and mow to see how it does, odd to me that the recommendations for oil in the manual don't even mention 20w50, but that's what they put in there.

Hi Rodney,
Run your machine and keep us up to date as to how it is operating!!!

I mowed two hours (according to engine clock) today starting with my oil level where the dealer had it. It was right on the full mark, when I finished I cleaned up and let the engine cool and oil settle for 30 minutes or so and the level is exactly half-way between add and full. It's been compression checked, new plugs, new oil and oil filter, new Kawasaki air filter with new foam pre-filter and carb cleaned out. I looked in the throat of the carb and it had some oil in it. Is there a PCV valve in this engine and could it be clogged?

Also, it clearly states in the manual that using multi-grade oils will increase oil consumption, so why would the dealer use 20W50?

Thanks,
Frustrated (I mean Rodney)

I found this interesting, hope sharing this thread isn't a "no-no"..........I've found others and it seems that I'm not the only one having this problem.

Hi Rodney,
Check the engine oil with the engine in the same condition, the manual says to do it with a cold engine. Keep a record of what your findings are.
It is important for you to be consistent and keeping a record with the date and machine hours.
I know that a lot of dealers are using 20W50 in Kawasaki engines, not sure why. I run straight 30 in my Kawi FX730V. This engine was produced in late 2011 and my Hustler X-ONE is a mid 2012 production model. When this machine is used, it runs for 8-10 hours sometimes up to three days running, no problem with oil consumption at all.
Maintain your "cool", record keeping on this engine will be your best evidence of what is going on.:biggrin:

Finished up the yard the other day for a total of 3 hours (exactly) mow time and it took 8oz. oil to top back off. I've taken it to a different store (same dealer/business in a different town). I know this much for sure, I'm buying another mower in about 18 months, going up to 60" from 54".......I really like this Hustler, but if Kawasaki and the dealer don't make this right, I won't buy Hustler or any other mower with a Kawasaki. I've spent (so far) 138 bucks for the shop to pretty much service the mower and clean the carb because they had no idea what was wrong with it and still don't, 140 miles round trip 3 times now.....to dealer. back from dealer and to other store of dealer.
I'm a little frustrated.........and worried about warranty not being honored. I could actually see some white smoke coming out when I fired it up to load it (it was cold) so the issue is becoming worse.

I'll update when there's more resolution.

Thanks again for all the replies,
Rodney

Rodney,

Yes this engine has a pcv valve.
There is a quick & dirty test for excessive crankcase pressuer and this is to remove the oil filler when you turn the engine off.
If it send up smoke signals then you have excessive crank case pressure and excessive crank case pressure will send a lot of oil through the pcv vlave into the cylinder.
I have a color tune ( Gunsons product ) which is a spark plug with a window in it so I can see the color of the combustion.
If the motor is burning clean the flame is blue white , if the engine is burning rich it will burn yellow, if the engine is burning oil you get funny colours, greens reds & purples.
I double test this by flicking some oil into the carb while the engine is running and see what color that particular oil burns.

Just because you have 120 psi does not mean you do not have a leak into the crankcase.

Rodney, Just an enthusiast here, reading what the pros and you say with interest. Couple things I will volunteer. I run 5W-30 purposely 'cause the thinner oil cools better and that may be why the dealer runs the 20W mulit grade. I have oil pressure and temp gauges on my lowly Intek 24 'cause it pushed a guide and ate a pushrod early on from new. Running thinner oil requires even more diligence . The Intek also will throw out ( invisible spray I believe, no smoke) oil in usage. After a 2-3 hour session here in 85F ambient I will have to top up at least 4 oz, sometimes more. My Intek is old now (2004) and does leak at the pan gasket so crankcase pressure is pushing out some oil. I once had a 1600 cc English Ford based twincam which had such crankcase pressure it would drive raw oil out of the breather tube into the air intake and onto the floor in puddles. Blowby is always a factor in engines. The motoGP road racers hook up a vacuum to the crank case to relieve pressure, and oil "catch tanks" are standard on many race engines. But our low rpm units should not have such a problem. I wonder about the oil scraper rings as they do not play such a big role in leak down results, I believe. Finally the crankcase rubber tube hookup to the intake throat below the air cleaner can indeed be a problem. When the Intek was new I kept wondering why there was a coating in intake. The little rubber coupling (turned away from the owner, invisible) had not been connected at the factory. How the engine survived is beyond me. I use a vacuum to clean up the air cleaner mounting surfaces of the engine. Often when I mow a weedy area with lots of dust I often completely clean up and change out the air cleaner if it is suspect. Hope you are able to find a knowledgeable and fair factory rep to help you.

After just over two weeks I've heard back from the dealer and Kawasaki won't cover the repair. They gave me the number to Kawasaki and encouraged me to raise hell with Kawasaki myself because they seemed to think determining causality and fault was iffy at best Dealer sent pics they requested and Kawasaki decided it had ingested dirt.......they said the green pre-filter was not a Kawasaki filter and they wouldn't stand behind it because of that. I mentioned to the Kawasaki rep that it didn't even come with that pre-filter anyhow and I'd only put it on for extra protection and he said it may have caused the filter to draw improperly or something but that they wouldn't stand behind it. I'm done with Kawasaki, and unfortunately Hustler too since they power with Kawasaki. I'm going to Kohler. I've only to decide now whether to rebuild for 600-700 bucks or run it til it plays out and re-power for twice that. It could run a week or years, no way to know.

RodneyShuffler said:

After just over two weeks I've heard back from the dealer and Kawasaki won't cover the repair. They gave me the number to Kawasaki and encouraged me to raise hell with Kawasaki myself because they seemed to think determining causality and fault was iffy at best Dealer sent pics they requested and Kawasaki decided it had ingested dirt.......they said the green pre-filter was not a Kawasaki filter and they wouldn't stand behind it because of that. I mentioned to the Kawasaki rep that it didn't even come with that pre-filter anyhow and I'd only put it on for extra protection and he said it may have caused the filter to draw improperly or something but that they wouldn't stand behind it. I'm done with Kawasaki, and unfortunately Hustler too since they power with Kawasaki. I'm going to Kohler. I've only to decide now whether to rebuild for 600-700 bucks or run it til it plays out and re-power for twice that. It could run a week or years, no way to know.

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You can go one better than that and also take it up with Rotary.
The after market suppliers get really pissed when engine makers try this stunt as most times what they are supplying is the same filter made from the same materials at the same factory as the ones the engine makers use.
The only difference is the colour which has to be done for patient reasons.
There s a subtle difference between coppying and making a substitute part.
Stens also stands behind all their products and will go to bat for owners who are getting flac for using their products.
Foam wraps should nevr be oiled, they are there to stop sticks & stones, not to filter the air.
Oiling the foam will cause it to clog faster but should not cause any problem other than a clogged filter , rich running .
If the engine was eating dirt and the fliter was not compromised then there was a problem with the manifold or the filter / engine seal.
Do not phone kawakasi but send them a letter, on paper. in an envelope.
Start the letter with words to the effect
" my attorney as adviced me that all further communications about this case must be in writing for reasons of leagal proof thus I am writing to to you............."
However for this ploy to work you must be consistant
If they phone you tell them you can not talk about it and to write back then hang up.
They will run you around for a while and try to call your bluff but once they realisze you might just be serious you will get a totally different attitude.
And make sure you send a copy of everything to Rotary as well.
A bit of stuffing around but worht it in the end.
If it is really dusty where you mow then get Donaldson filter fitted.
kawakasi fit them standard to most of the commercial range.

I went threw 2 Kawasaki engines on my toro. They are junk.
I went with a kohler pro with hydro lifters. Best engine I have ever used.
100 hours and has used no oil. I change oil at 50 hours but have let this go because the oil is still brown as the day I put it in.
The kohler is 4 hp less than the Kawasaki but has more power.

I would think putting an oiled pre filter on your FR would change the jetting...hmmmm..I usually just tap mine out at the end of the day and give it a light blow inside out till I cant see light through it that good any more.
Kawasakis are alot better then kohler IMO..alot tighter..I have an FC420V with oclose to 2K hours on it,,well see how the FR goes,,Ill be happy with 1000 on that.

577jersey said:

I would think putting an oiled pre filter on your FR would change the jetting...hmmmm..I usually just tap mine out at the end of the day and give it a light blow inside out till I cant see light through it that good any more.
Kawasakis are alot better then kohler IMO..alot tighter..I have an FC420V with oclose to 2K hours on it,,well see how the FR goes,,Ill be happy with 1000 on that.

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Just like valve seat recession from running unleaded this is something that is a problem in a minute area of internal combustion engine use but it gets picked up on by clowns trying to sound intelligent and finally becames a truth by virtue of continued repeating.
Oiling a filter makes very little difference to the air flow on a mower engine of 400cc to 1,200 cc spinning at 4000 rpm or less.
Leaving it in there till it has enough dust on it to carve your name into it might almost cause some slight richness.
You can troll through all the episodes of mythbusters they did this a few times and it was BUSTED every time.

bertsmobile1 said:

Just like valve seat recession from running unleaded this is something that is a problem in a minute area of internal combustion engine use but it gets picked up on by clowns trying to sound intelligent and finally becames a truth by virtue of continued repeating.
Oiling a filter makes very little difference to the air flow on a mower engine of 400cc to 1,200 cc spinning at 4000 rpm or less.
Leaving it in there till it has enough dust on it to carve your name into it might almost cause some slight richness.
You can troll through all the episodes of mythbusters they did this a few times and it was BUSTED every time.

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Well thats good to know because it really bothered me that my FR did not come with a pre filter,always liked the extra filtration.Im sure the engine would last a bit longer with less dirt getting by the throat.I wont oil it,,but will definitely order one now!
Thanks for the info!!

Tom

577jersey said:

Well thats good to know because it really bothered me that my FR did not come with a pre filter,always liked the extra filtration.Im sure the engine would last a bit longer with less dirt getting by the throat.I wont oil it,,but will definitely order one now!
Thanks for the info!!

Tom

Click to expand...

Wraps are not really a filter as such they h=just stop big bits like grass clippings getting in.
They also disperse the air so it gets sucked through a larger area of the filter.

No where in the Kawasaki FR series engines parts manuals is a foam prefilter shown.
The Kawasaki FR operators manual stated that shaking the air filter to clean it is OK. Blowing it out with pressurized air is not OK.
Air filters will filter better with some dust in them.
Kawasaki engines do not have a PCV valve. They do have a crankcase pressure/vacuum control valve and filter with a hose connection to the filtered air entering the carb. Most carburetored engines have a pulse powered fuel pump, the diaphragm in which is pulsed back and forth by pressure changes in the crankcase caused by pistons moving up and down in the cylinder(s). This causes fuel to be drawn into the fuel pump thru and open check valve. When the diaphragm is pulsed to the opposite direction, the incoming check valve closes, the outgoing check valve opens allowing fuel to be pumped into the carb float bowl. The dry side of the fuel pump diaphragm is vented to the atmosphere to allow it to pulse.

Mad Mackie said:

No where in the Kawasaki FR series engines parts manuals is a foam prefilter shown.
The Kawasaki FR operators manual stated that shaking the air filter to clean it is OK. Blowing it out with pressurized air is not OK.
Air filters will filter better with some dust in them.
Kawasaki engines do not have a PCV valve. They do have a crankcase pressure/vacuum control valve and filter with a hose connection to the filtered air entering the carb. Most carburetored engines have a pulse powered fuel pump, the diaphragm in which is pulsed back and forth by pressure changes in the crankcase caused by pistons moving up and down in the cylinder(s). This causes fuel to be drawn into the fuel pump thru and open check valve. When the diaphragm is pulsed to the opposite direction, the incoming check valve closes, the outgoing check valve opens allowing fuel to be pumped into the carb float bowl. The dry side of the fuel pump diaphragm is vented to the atmosphere to allow it to pulse.

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Ahh,,I tend to lean toward my own knowledge after working on small engines for over 30 years,,I see the manufactures always trying to get more $$ in their service/parts dept.by telling consumers to do things a certain way,,I think my FR book says to change oil every 100 hours and filter every 200 hours,,thats absurd.Their recommendations mean very little to me,especially after warranty period is over

Having been a mech at a few dealerships in my time, I was involved in a lawsuit against my employer by a customer where aftermarket filters were installed on two large diesel engines in his boat. This got nasty before it was resolved, and my employer was ordered by the court to replace both engines in the customers boat. The company did the repower at a cost of almost $100,000!!! My next paycheck bounced, the business closed up shortly after and all employees were laid off.

Engine oil and filter change intervals in operators manuals are maximum allowable recommendations.

I understand that...things can get real ugly especially during the warranty period.

I just cant see spending more than 3x the amount on a snake oil filter that has 25% less material than an after market filter.
Good example being the spin on that Kawasaki recommends,its cost is enough to make the consumer skip an oil change,,the TG Fram 4967 or a Napa Gold that is factory recommended for a Toyota Rav 4 with a 2100cc engine fits on most all the small Kawasaki engines and IMO is a better choice than the over priced snake oil propaganda filter that just drains my wallet.

If I had to bring my machine in for any warranty work I always keep a stock filter around so there are no questions.We have to play by the rules at least till warranty is over.

I have engines with thousands of hours on them using after market parts and lubricants that are not recommended and run like new.

Tom

577jersey said:

I understand that...things can get real ugly especially during the warranty period.

I just cant see spending more than 3x the amount on a snake oil filter that has 25% less material than an after market filter.
Good example being the spin on that Kawasaki recommends,its cost is enough to make the consumer skip an oil change,,the TG Fram 4967 or a Napa Gold that is factory recommended for a Toyota Rav 4 with a 2100cc engine fits on most all the small Kawasaki engines and IMO is a better choice than the over priced snake oil propaganda filter that just drains my wallet.

If I had to bring my machine in for any warranty work I always keep a stock filter around so there are no questions.We have to play by the rules at least till warranty is over.

I have engines with thousands of hours on them using after market parts and lubricants that are not recommended and run like new.

Tom

Click to expand...

Well yes & no Tom.
I stock 16 different aftermarket filters for small engines.
In that group there is only 3 different threads so I could in theory fit the $ 3 filter to almost everything, but there IS a difference between them
They have different micron sizes and most important different bypass pressures.
Most small engines do not have an oil pressure releif valve and use the filter as a pressure regulator.
Small engine oil pumps work at a lot lower pressures and volumes than car engines.
There is a world of difference between an aftermarket part made to the same specifications and any old part that will fit in the hole.
The filter canister you are using might be suitable but now days the catalocgues do not contain the information needed to compare them properly and engine makers never publish this data for the same reason
Yes that much of your conspiracy theory is valid.
Liquise with air filters. A lot will fit over the hole but not all will work satisfactorily.

Two of my customers have made warrantee claims against Kawakasi which were originally declined because I had fitted Stens oil filters & was using Gripskie oil.
SO I sent this on to both Stens & Gripskie.
In both cases Kawakasi relented & replaced the engines.
In both cases the ( same) dealer who did the first service did not check the vlave lash which he was supposed to do as part of the first in Warantee service.
As such they missed the single retaining bolt on the rocker assmebly working loose.
I did all the rest of the services exactly as per the Kawakasi manual.
Both of the engines had a rocker failure , injested a pushrod and wrecked the cam.
had I been using car filters and car oils the story would have been different as those are not listed by their manufacturer as being suitable for those engines.

I still don't have my lawn mower back, the shop has had it 6 weeks and two days now, well......since it was taken to the "better" store of Southern Tractor in Lufkin after it had been at the not so better store of Southern Tractor in Willis for two weeks. I authorized them to rebuild it on my dime well over 3 weeks ago. I'm done with Kawasaki, I still like my Hustler mower, but I don't feel like Hustler/Excel had my back at all. I have to say, there's just no way I could ever recommend Southern Tractor for anything besides sales. They are just flat out incompetent. My uncle rebuilds engines in less than a day. I was promised my mower last week, I called on Friday evening and it was promised Monday (yesterday), I called to ask if I could pick it up yesterday and he said he'd have it done today.......I've not heard from them and the close of business is just a few minutes away.

When the time comes I'll re-power with Kohler or possibly Vanguard........my opinion: ANY manufacturer can build a bad product, things happen. The real question to ask is how do they stand behind it......Kawasaki, not good for me. They got me once, won't happen again. I think they probably make good engines as a rule, but they don't stand behind them unless you have a way to force their hand.

I know this much, I'll tell my story to everyone I can get to listen, on the internet, on facebook, in person.......however I can reach them. I think Kawasaki does this a lot, and people need to know that...they also need to know the Kawasaki/Hustler service and sales locations of Southern Tractor are poor performers.

I was really looking forward to moving up to the 60" Hustler..........I was also looking at Excel's Big Dog line, I WILL buy a 60" mower in the next year but it won't be powered with a Kawasaki and I don't have enough confidence in Hustler/Big Dog/Excel to buy their products either.

As a side note, for the rebuild, the shop foreman ordered a new rubber intake tube (the one that attaches the air filter to the carb)..........why would that be necessary? It's got 90 hours on it and looks like new money.......that doesn't seem like a part that should need replacing.

Anyone know of an aftermarket fuel filter compatible with the Kawasaki 49019‑0027? Mower is running intermittently. Air filter is in good condition and fuel is good.

I just replaced my fuel filter with one from Auto Zone,it looked identical to the Kawi part,was cheaper and works great!!

Any 1/4" inline filter will work just fine if not better than the stock filter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-4-6mm-I...ash=item3d36f6f226:g:gesAAOSw44BYMs1Z&vxp=mtr

Also FYI Bert,I have a purolator 4967 and a kawi stock filter both NIB.The Purolator check valve opens alot easier than the kawi one.
I tested this by sucking air through the center hole,so IMO I think the Purolator 4967 would be a safe choice but i dont recommend it

I wanted to follow this up, I know it's crazy after this much time, but now that I have some time and hours on the machine I think I can give a good account for my maintenance. This machine now has 270 hours; so....rebuilt at roughly 90 hours and twice that added since the rebuild. I've changed nothing concerning maintenance, I still use the same filters, still clean them the same way, still change them at non-specific intervals based simply on whether or not they clean up. I start the season with a Kawasaki tune-up kit. I use non-ethanol gas on all my small engines around here. This mower and engine have been trouble free.....I've changed a drive belt and a blade belt....that's it. I change oil, I don't add oil because it doesn't use any. I think Kawasaki makes great engines just like I did when I bought it, but I WON'T buy another one. Kawasaki engines are great, their warranty is good except they don't honor it. ANY manufacturer can get it wrong from time to time, I totally get it, but when they won't make it right I can't do business with them again. I know they won't miss my business, but I'm looking at new mowers now and won't buy one with a Kawasaki. Any suggestions on what other engines are comparable to FX series Kawasaki engines? Thanks again for reading and for the suggestions.

They'll all react to your maintenance in the same way. Don't be surprised if you cut the rings out of your next engine if you continue to fiddle with the air filter like you've been doing. Every time you remove and replace an air filter you risk damaging the pleats or the seals. Every time you replace a slightly used air filter with a new one, you replaced it with one that does a worse job of filtering.

Whatever you buy, get one with a filter minder on it and don't mess with the air filter until it tells you to.

Mad Mackie said:

Having been a mech at a few dealerships in my time, I was involved in a lawsuit against my employer by a customer where aftermarket filters were installed on two large diesel engines in his boat. This got nasty before it was resolved, and my employer was ordered by the court to replace both engines in the customers boat. The company did the repower at a cost of almost $100,000!!! My next paycheck bounced, the business closed up shortly after and all employees were laid off.

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Are you kidding? On a boat with $100,000 engines? Why on Earth would someone install aftermarket filters? Customer can't afford OEM filters now after shelling out mega cash?

slomo

RodneyShuffler said:

They found a lot of dirt in the intake and are trying to say I haven't taken care of the air filter.

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Sure sounds like it to me. All that grit inside the engine will polish her right up.

slomo

sjessen said:

88 hours is nothing! That is about the same as 8,000 miles on an auto engine. If you have put 4 air filters on it in that amount of time it is hard to believe you are not doing proper maintenance.

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Aftermarket filter might not of been sealing. Dealer found grit inside the intake. To me case closed.

slomo

slomo, I've changed NOTHING.......still doing what I was doing before the rebuild and I've had zero problems since. The problem isn't me. I have tractors, tillers, other mowers, 4-wheelers.....hell, I drive a 7 axle heavy-haul truck with a 50ton winch pulling 35 ton RGN and FGN trailers for a living; I know how to maintain equipment, it's all I ever seem to be doing. This came from the factory with something not right, it's been fixed properly (on my dime) and been fine since. I suspect the hose between the filter and carb was bad, maybe cracked. and that's what was letting dirt in. Why else would they need to change it?

RodneyShuffler said:

I went back and re-read my post, that was kind of confusing; I should have done a better job proofreading.
I blow the whole mower off with my air compressor when I get finished mowing, I used to wash it but was told that it was really best to just blow it off with air. I do blow out that little foam pre filter with the air hose, but the paper filter I just tap around on until dirt stops falling out of it. I don't know of any way to do a visual inspection to tell when one needs to be replaced or not, whenever they reached a point that they looked like they weren't coming clean when I would shake them out I just replaced them. I have been told to oil that foam pre-filter by some people and not to by other people.... that didn't even come on it from the factory anyway, but it seemed like I shouldn't put oil on it to me because it was going against a paper filter. I just used it dry.
When I check the oil, I do it per instructions on the dipstick (NOT threaded in). I bought oil according to the chart in the book for the temperature range I expected to be operating the mower in.
I drive an 18 wheeler for a living, and have since 1993.... I'm pretty familiar with pre-trip inspection since it's a legal requirement of my job. I am absolutely not a mechanic, I'm a driver.... but fluid checks and pm/service etc... seem like something I don't even think about, it's just part of everyday life for me.

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Running the pre air filter dry does no help. Allows grit to pass through towards the paper filter. No wonder you have to shake the paper filter out. Should never have to shake n bake the paper filter. Pre filter should do most of the work.

Briggs says to apply SAE30 oil thoroughly. Put the foam filter inside a rag. Take a red shop rag and squeeze out the excess oil. Foam should be oily. Much easier to clean the foam than buying filters. Don't worry about over oiling the foam either. Catch all the grit you can.

Also I use grease on the paper filter sealing areas. Most filters even OEM can have poor sealing lips. You'd be surprised to see how much grit you stop going into the engine.

slomo

I asked the tech at Southern Tractor (where I bought it) about oiling the foam filter and was advised against doing that. That was when I picked the unit up after the rebuild. Grease around the hose that clamps onto the filter sounds like a great idea and I'm on that from here on out......thanks for the tip. My next mower will have a canister style filter. I started running the pre-filter as an added help, it didn't even come with that on it new.

Hmmm... i have to disagree with that "tech"... especially, when the manual for one of my Kawasaki engine's says to wash the prefilter in warm soapy water, dry, and then to oil it.
this or cheap SAE30 is what i use for air filter oil.

RodneyShuffler said:

I asked the tech at Southern Tractor (where I bought it) about oiling the foam filter and was advised against doing that. That was when I picked the unit up after the rebuild. Grease around the hose that clamps onto the filter sounds like a great idea and I'm on that from here on out......thanks for the tip. My next mower will have a canister style filter. I started running the pre-filter as an added help, it didn't even come with that on it new.

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The pre filte is just that.
A prefilter
It is not meant to stop sub micron particulates ,
It is there to stops sticks stones & grass clippings that if damp can cause the paper to rot through
The paper is doing the filtering , the foam is screening
General rule is you only oil the foam on foam only filters
And when I fit them, I dip my fingers in the oil then spread some on the carb side of the filter only so the inital air enters vial the dry foam hat prevents very large bits and the closer to the carb the air gets the finer the filtering .

Back in the 60's manometers came into popular useage because they got a lot cheaper .
This then allowed tuners to measure the actual amount of air being sucked into an engine.
Shortly latter racers started to fit foam filters to the carbs which previously had no filteration at all.
Because of the totally irrational "if racers use it it must be better for my engine " foam filters ended up being used everywhere and in a lot of cases places where they were totally inappropriate.
If you are old enough you would remember the advertising, More power, , less fuel consumption, same old same old for every do dad marketed to car owners .
On most carburettored engines no great problem other than a bit more cylinder wear due to more fine dust entering the engine.
Remember that paper filters only came into popular useage in the late 60's replacing the oil bath filters used previously .
The big problem was when they got fitted to the early fuel injected engines and in particular to engines with variable stroke pumps because better air flow meant these engines started to run lean.
Lean enough to destroy many from over heating & lean burn detonation .
Not so much a problem on single barrel carbs but was a bugger with multi barrel carbs where the high speed barrels had different jetting .
By & large the invention & application of electronic fuel injection and in particular mass air flow meters ended this lean burn problem.

However this whole arguement is some what out of place when we are talking about mower engines.
Most mowers are over filtered and with a single barrel cab a higher air flow rate makes no difference because the carb is a fixed rate device so the volume of air passing through makes absolutely no difference .
The caveat to this is ZTR's fitted with baggers because the bags dump a massive amount of very fine dust right on top of the engine which sucks it right in.
Any ZTR fitted with a bagger either needs a proper double stage filter or a snorkel to draw in clean air.
Down here all of the local mowers were fitted with snorkels till B & S took over Victa.
Honda used to charge a fortune for their snorkel kit which included a smaller jet to compensate for the reduced air flow,,,,,, total tosh unless you were at 1000' or better elevation .
Down side is mowers with snorkels never ever need new filters and as Slowmo has mentioned, continual removal of the filter for cleaning, damaged the seals thus rendering the filter useless, but as the mower is sucking clean air it made no difference as the air bypssing the filter was fairly clean

RodneyShuffler said:

I asked the tech at Southern Tractor (where I bought it) about oiling the foam filter and was advised against doing that. That was when I picked the unit up after the rebuild. Grease around the hose that clamps onto the filter sounds like a great idea and I'm on that from here on out......thanks for the tip. My next mower will have a canister style filter. I started running the pre-filter as an added help, it didn't even come with that on it new.

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I agree with ScrubCadet10. Foam needs oil.

Briggs and Stratton says it needs oil.

I know this is not your exact filter but should be followed in general.

But it is not a foam only filter he is talking about
It is a paper filter with a foam wrap
They get fitted dry

bertsmobile1 said:

But it is not a foam only filter he is talking about
It is a paper filter with a foam wrap
They get fitted dry

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Exactly.....I was advised to NOT oil the foam filter and have that oil pulling through into the paper element.