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hydrostatic transmission draining oil

#1

M

man00

Can you pump the oil through the fill plug in order to put fresh clean oil in it? This is on a non-serviceable one.
Or maybe the over flow plug?


#2

BlazNT

BlazNT

Model # of your mower will help us see what you have and help.


#3

M

My_guy99

Hopis not talking about a transmission like what I have, they make it difficult in non-serviceable just so you can replace it in a few years and not replace the oil so they burn out


#4

M

man00

Kubota T1670 is the mower.


#5

reynoldston

reynoldston

man00 said:
This is on a non-serviceable one.
QUOTE]

Do was you want. But non-serviceable to me would mean the oil is good for the life of the mower. So to me you are just looking for problems by changing the oil. All you are doing by changing the oil is disturbing the metal chips that form in the bottom of the case. Yes they are there but to remove them you would have to disassemble the complete transmission. Leave well enough alone because it was designed that way. Kubota knows what they are doing.
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#6

M

man00

reynoldston said:
man00 said:
This is on a non-serviceable one.
QUOTE]

Do was you want. But non-serviceable to me would mean the oil is good for the life of the mower. So to me you are just looking for problems by changing the oil. All you are doing by changing the oil is disturbing the metal chips that form in the bottom of the case. Yes they are there but to remove them you would have to disassemble the complete transmission. Leave well enough alone because it was designed that way. Kubota knows what they are doing.
Click to expand...
I made contact with Kubota few months back , they said you can drop the pan and drain oil that way. But use extreme caution so that nothing falls out of place. They said it does have a replaceable filter inside. I didn't mention pumping the oil out to them at that time.
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#7

BlazNT

BlazNT

Well they make it almost impossible to look up your parts so I will need one more thing. On the rear end will be a part number some where. It is normally on a tag. If you can find it I should be able to find the instructions.


#8

M

man00

BlazNT said:
Well they make it almost impossible to look up your parts so I will need one more thing. On the rear end will be a part number some where. It is normally on a tag. If you can find it I should be able to find the instructions.
Click to expand...
thanks, I will try and get that ASAP


#9

M

man00

man00 said:
thanks, I will try and get that ASAP
Click to expand...
Here is the # k1082-11111


#10

BlazNT

BlazNT

I can find an explodes parts view and that is all. They do not want you touching this thing.


#11

M

motoman

Interesting subject. I have only seen the inside of a hydrostatic on youtube. But what with the slow inherent wind blast or fan aided cooling it would seem there is some factory concern about heat. So the question: Heat vs additive depleltion in the original oil or heat vs the transmission housing? Or both. My impression is that the hydrostatic is nowhere the complexity of a car auto transmission. We know they should be serviced regularly, including filter. Enthusiast car buffs change out manual transmission oil regularly though not specified by factory. I have run several manual car 5 speeds 100K with no changeout, Others seemed to benefit from changes where synchro rings needed help for smoother shifting. I feel my own Craftsman DYT 4000 is slipping a little when cold. Please respond, knowledgeable forum people!


#12

M

My_guy99

I asked this question a few years ago on hear and everyone yelled at me!

(Giggles)

I don't like the non serviceable label and couldn't let that ride, found out it was made by tuff torq and called asked them about it and he 110% agree to replace the oil asap! I told him what model I had and she sent me info about the Trans and that there another pan u can buy to make it serviceable or just tap the original pan!

This is just my opinion of course!


#13

BlazNT

BlazNT

I agree with you it should be changed as per TuffTurq. And at regular intervals. I was just looking for a manual and could not find one.

You have a Tuffturq rear end.
Oli is 20w50 engine oil.


#14

M

My_guy99

BlazNT said:
I agree with you it should be changed as per TuffTurq. And at regular intervals. I was just looking for a manual and could not find one. You have a Tuffturq rear end. Oli is 20w50 engine oil.
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The manual for my mower says non-serviceable though! That didn't fit me or make me satisfied:(


#15

BlazNT

BlazNT

My mower manual said the same thing. Tufftorq manual said different.


#16

M

My_guy99

BlazNT said:
My mower manual said the same thing. Tufftorq manual said different.
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Wish I could find the old thread, the guys on here were calling me stupid and I didn't know what I was doing so leave it along... Whatever... I just left this site for a few years now I'm back


#17

reynoldston

reynoldston

man00 said:
reynoldston said:
I made contact with Kubota few months back , they said you can drop the pan and drain oil that way. But use extreme caution so that nothing falls out of place. They said it does have a replaceable filter inside. I didn't mention pumping the oil out to them at that time.
Click to expand...

either it is or isn't serviceable?? I have been in the repair trade gone enough to know if they say non-serviceable leave it alone. But do whatever makes you feel good because you are asking for problems. Trust Kubota because they designed it that way and they know what they are talking about.
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#18

BlazNT

BlazNT

reynoldston said:
man00 said:
either it is or isn't serviceable?? I have been in the repair trade gone enough to know if they say non-serviceable leave it alone. But do whatever makes you feel good because you are asking for problems. Trust Kubota because they designed it that way and they know what they are talking about.
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Kubota did not design Tufftorq rear end. They purchased it. They call it non serviceable in the mower manual. Tufftorq does not call any of their stuff non serviceable. Some they call sealed and not necessary to change oil unless it get contaminated. Well how do you know if its contaminated if you don't look.
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#19

I

ingigo

Easy comparison for the transaxle is it is like a sealed bearing. Only much more complicated. I have taken sealed bearings apart and put them back together with failure and success, but they are not the price or complexity of a hydrostatic transmission. I agree to let the transmission guys do it. Like with automobiles, a transmission is usually sent to a place that just works on transmissions. Just my one cent, for I that is all $ I have. Good luck!!


#20

B

bertsmobile1

there is nothing made by man that I can not take apart and make work again, for a while any way.:confused2:
However most times it is just not economic to do so.
Big problem with hydros is the requirement for a surgically clean assembly room which most workshops, mine included do not have.
Most run filters that are in the 10 to 20 micron range.
the dust floating in through the screens on your windows that you can not see is anything up to 250 microns.
the dust coming off a paper shop towel is around 100 micron.
Talk to some spray painters who do top end show work if you want to know about how to beat dust.

Thus in most cases splitting a lot of hydros will long term do more harm than good.
This is why they call it unserviceable.

Pull it down if you like but don't be suprided ig you only get a short life out of the repair.
OTOH if it don't work now you have nothing to loose.


#21

I

ingigo

I have had experiences opening transmissions. Every time they drop in value to below 0. The tolerances are too tight. If you do not have the tools and the 'sterile' area AND the expertise to do anything to that specific transmission, you just ruined it by opening it. A lot of the transmissions will tolerate a lot of use, if you do not stress or heat them up too much. I had a Hydro-Gear that lasted 20 years and its still going. Before, there were just gear shift transmissions, pretty simple. The hydrostatics now are like the automatic transmissions in vehicles. You just do not change the oil yourself in a automatic transmission. Save yourself time $ and frustration just buy a new one or have the company work on it.


#22

M

man00

Mine is Hydro-Gear, I called them and their service dept said yes you can change the oil either way pumping it out or removing it and draining...You just have to purge it once done. And use 20w-50w good oil


#23

M

motoman

I really do like it when you guys share this stuff. Ok....first the you tube. Even before reading Bert's primer on particulate matter I recoiled at the pitiful condition of the youtube dude's shop-a pig stye. He seemed good with his hands but not with hygiene. I think reynoldson has a point about pumping-it's likely to stir up swarf and dirt, perhaps doing more damage than good. No one has answered the question of additives in gear oil. Does heat kill them, necessitating changeout along with moisture accumulation, or is moisture driven off in operation through the check valve breather ? Are there only screens or are there paper filters inside these little marvels. I personally like the idea of Tufftorque suggesting a new pan for drainage. Your continued responses are greatly appreciated.

Edit, Hey guy 99. Take satisfaction that now your question has generated a good discussion. Obviously a man ahead of his time.


#24

Carscw

Carscw

I have taking 4 of these apart. To do a axle upgrade. Hours on all 4 of them over 1000. The oil looked new. Nice and brown. I see no need to ever change the oil.


#25

M

My_guy99

motoman said:
I really do like it when you guys share this stuff. Ok....first the you tube. Even before reading Bert's primer on particulate matter I recoiled at the pitiful condition of the youtube dude's shop-a pig stye. He seemed good with his hands but not with hygiene. I think reynoldson has a point about pumping-it's likely to stir up swarf and dirt, perhaps doing more damage than good. No one has answered the question of additives in gear oil. Does heat kill them, necessitating changeout along with moisture accumulation, or is moisture driven off in operation through the check valve breather ? Are there only screens or are there paper filters inside these little marvels. I personally like the idea of Tufftorque suggesting a new pan for drainage. Your continued responses are greatly appreciated. Edit, Hey guy 99. Take satisfaction that now your question has generated a good discussion. Obviously a man ahead of his time.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will try to find me pictures I took when I disassemble my tuff torq rear end! When I split the case I was utterly amazed. All I seen was nasty cruddy oil gray and shavings all and it. At this time the oil only had about 25 hours on it and just two years old. I wasn't giving up when the manual stated non-serviceable I figured out who the rear was made by an contacted them and they said that's a piece of crap the best thing you can do is get that old fluid out of there and put fresh the wood and there is soon as possible! Supposedly they ship these things from the manufacturers dry and let the Company who is ever putting them in their tractors fill them up with oil to save money. I was told my particular tractor was filled up with the wrong oil and they know about it yet they can't do anything about it. I manufacture tuff torq told me to put 5W 50 Castro oil motor oil I believe only in it! I believe it was about 10 bucks a quart and took 3 quarts of oil! That was about five years ago when I split the cases and now I have 194 hours on it with no problems. I think I'm I split the case again just for $hits and giggles and replace the oil again? very easy to do just take your time! There are about four magnets in there as well make sure to clean them if you care to take it apart but like I said this was only my tractor and in my opinion needed to be done but I didn't buy yours you do what you feel like you need to do to your equipment I will continue to do this to my equipment and it seems to do me just fine! Just my two cents


#26

M

My_guy99

Carscw said:
I have taking 4 of these apart. To do a axle upgrade. Hours on all 4 of them over 1000. The oil looked new. Nice and brown. I see no need to ever change the oil.
Click to expand...

I really need to show you the pictures of the wall in my case. All I'll say is thick gray milkshake! And instead of sprinkles shavings!


#27

reynoldston

reynoldston

My_guy99 said:
Thanks, I will try to find me pictures I took when I disassemble my tuff torq rear end! When I split the case I was utterly amazed. All I seen was nasty cruddy oil gray and shavings all and it. At this time the oil only had about 25 hours on it and just two years old. I wasn't giving up when the manual stated non-serviceable I figured out who the rear was made by an contacted them and they said that's a piece of crap the best thing you can do is get that old fluid out of there and put fresh the wood and there is soon as possible! Supposedly they ship these things from the manufacturers dry and let the Company who is ever putting them in their tractors fill them up with oil to save money. I was told my particular tractor was filled up with the wrong oil and they know about it yet they can't do anything about it. I manufacture tuff torq told me to put 5W 50 Castro oil motor oil I believe only in it! I believe it was about 10 bucks a quart and took 3 quarts of oil! That was about five years ago when I split the cases and now I have 194 hours on it with no problems. I think I'm I split the case again just for $hits and giggles and replace the oil again very easy to do just take your time! There are about four magnets in there as well make sure to clean them if you care to take it apart but like I said this was only my tractor and in my opinion needed to be done but I didn't buy yours you do what you feel like you need to do to your equipment I will continue to do this to my equipment and it seems to do me just fine! Just my two cents
Click to expand...

If your oil is full of shavings you got more problems then a oil change


#28

M

motoman

Well, we know (don't we?) that oil topics are almost as nasty as politics and just as hard to understand. MAYBE gear oil is a little easier to understand than engine oil. We know the additive pak in manual transmissions includes stuff to address shock and that moisture and blowby are not so relevant. Also that eetsy beetsy particles can clog auto car auto transmissions. Someone chime in on 1(shavings and swarf-how much is ok and should it all be found as a little pile of powder at the bottom of the sump where gravity put it or?) (2) sources and prices on FACTORY recommended brands and exact formulas.

Yes it is shocking that gear oil can be so expensive. It took years for me to adjust to German callouts of hydraulic fluid @ $17/ qt (l960), then synchromesh synthetic @ $12/liter, but nothing prepared me for a bullsxxx quart of limited slip fluid @ $75!!! But...if it truly works and preserves the gear sets...buy it.:confused2:

Thick grey milkshake sounds like car head gasket leaking cooland into oil, no?


#29

M

My_guy99

Thick grey milkshake sounds like car head gasket leaking cooland into oil, no?[/QUOTE]

No coolant in a hydrostatic transaxle. Per the manufacture tuff torq they ship them dry, oil is added when it gets to the other company to be attached to the mower an it's the wrong/ lower end oil, his words!!!! It's Been 6 years and 170 hrs later it runs like a top!


#30

B

bertsmobile1

Sounds like an oil/water emulsion to me.
So unless some one put water in there it should nevery happen.
Only time I have seen this was flood salvaged mowers and a couple of clots who washed their mowers with a pressure washer.

So if the op has an emulsion in his box he has to change the oil and will need to do it several times.


#31

M

man00

I plan on trying this next weekend (pumping oil) seen one video on youtube seem to work okay. If not I will drop the pan and clean filter or replace.
I guess the purging is pretty much the same on all of these


#32

BlazNT

BlazNT

Yes lift tires off ground and run them forward and backwards 5 or 10 times.


#33

M

man00

worked okay with the pump I got almost 3.5qts out. All I did was pump all the oil I could from the filler open, then raise the front of mower as high as I could then pump some more...Runs great..seems a bit faster to me.


#34

M

man00

Ran all summer without any issue at all. I forgot to mention the oil was in need of change definitely not as clean as new oil.


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