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I have a Honda rototiller (around 20 years old). It always fires right up, except this year. I replaced the plug since it had gone a long time. It didn't fire. I pulled the plug and grounded it--still no spark.

I pulled the flywheel and cleaned everything up. Points were moving and everything looked okay. I thought perhaps it was grounding so I pulled the kill switch from the handle. Still nothing.

I have never had a small engine coil go bad, but could this be the problem? Parts are really expensive on these little devils (quoted $88 for the coil and $22 for the points). If I get into too many repairs I can buy a new GX200 for $300 including shipping. The engine is getting on in years.

Anyway, I would appreciate your response.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

Jim, the troubleshooting section of the tiller shop manual is weak, so I looked at the engine manual instead; here's what they show for ignition troubleshooting:



For a breaker-style ignition, the engine shop manual shows:
Ignition coil resistance = 6.6kohms
Condenser capacity 0.24 microfarads.

If both the coil and condenser measure good, not sure where to go from there. There's not a whole lot left that is responsible for making spark. If you could find a dealer who might be willing to let you test with known good parts, that might help.

-Robert@Honda

Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding was my opinion alone.

Thanks so much for your info. I love those Honda engines.

I will check the coil with my ohm meter. Are the coil and condenser in one unit? Can you convert these to CD units?

Is there a way to check the ignition timing?

Should I buy a new engine are these fairly standard. I notice two units. One is listed as a tapered shaft. The other as a tapered shaft with 3" pulley.

Jim

The condenser is pretty close to the coil; there is a wire that connects them. The shop manual lists microfarads as the unit-of-measure for the condenser (since it's a capacitor) but say to use a VOM set to resistance and apply leads to both sides of the condenser. The meter should deflect to 0 ohms, then slowly turn to infinite ohms. When measuring the resistance of the actual coil, be sure to remove the spark plug cap:



I'll need to do some digging to find out which exact G200 is the right one for your tiller, but I'll caution you, there's a chance it may no longer be available.

While it may be technically possible to convert a breaker-style ignition to a solid-state, I'm 99% sure some of the necessary parts are no longer available.

Thanks for the in-depth information. I will give it a try later today.

By the way, the engine I was looking at is a GX200. Will it fit?

Jim

Okay, here are the results:

My meter had a 200mfd scale on it. Putting it on the condensor it went up over 100, dropped to infinite, went up again over 100 and again.

Ignition coil resistance didn't register at the spark plug but when I stuck my probe through the insulation it registered 6.4kohms.

Jim

Coil is barely out of spec; can't believe it's not okay.

How does the spark plug wire and cap appear? Any fraying, cracking, damage? Can you see if the female end looks clean and is making good contact with the tip of the plug?

Condenser seems fine too, but that's a cheap part to swap just in case.

Re-check the ignition timing and confirm the points are opening/closing correctly, and the contacts are parallel where they touch.

A new plug (if not one already) is also a cheap/easy to replace and test.

Beyond that, carefully inspect all the wires associated with the ignition. Make sure none are frayed, cracked or the insulation has not worn off.

If all the above is totally right, there's no reason you should not get a spark. I'm no technician, so it might be time to let somebody who is take a closer look.

Jim:

Due to the belt/clutch and guards design on that tiller, our engineers have told me there is a safety concern if anything but an original engine is used. To swap out with a modern GX-style OHV or lower-cost GC OHV/OHC engine seems ideal, but the different pulleys would present some engineering challenges; I don't have the exact details, but suffice to say, Honda can't legally recommend any other engine except a identical G200 as a replacement for the tiller. The GX200 is not recommended to replace the G200.

Worse yet, the G200 is very, VERY old side-valve design, and has been out of production for many, many years. Honda has none of these engines in stock here in the USA. I'm very sorry. I know the tiller is probably in good running shape otherwise. FYI, the general rule-of-thumb is to maintain stock of replacement engines and parts for a model for 10+ years after the last ones are manufactured. Personally, I think this should be extended to 15, 20 years, as you and I both know Honda stuff lasts for a long time.

There were quite a few thousand G200 engines imported by Honda in the day. It's possible craigslist or ebay might have one somewhere. If not, I'm hopeful you can sort out the ignition woes and keep it running for a while.

Finally, at the risk of sounding like a salesman, Honda makes a nice unit called the F220 that does a great job. I realize it's a sizeable investment ($900 list price) to buy a whole new tiller, but I'm sure it would last even longer as the one you have now. You can learn more about it here:

Honda Tillers: Honda F220 Mid-Tine Tiller

I think it must be somewhere in the ignition wire. It looks good where it contacts the plug and the plug is new but I get no reading with the ohmmeter at the end.

I used to have this on an acreage before we moved into town. Now I don't have much use for it or I would get a new one. Actually I might go look at a smaller one for our large city lot.

Thanks so much for your help on this one.

I will give it one last try and then go from there.

Jim

If a slightly smaller one (9" width) might work, the FG110 is a best-seller. It has a nice 4-stroke engine, is commercial-grade and very durable, lifetime tine warranty, and rolls out of the Honda factory in Swepsonville, NC. $389 list, but can be had for a bit less most places. I've seen 'em for $349 very often.

Again, not trying to be a salesman; google it and you can read Honda's propaganda here:

http://powerequipment.honda.com/tillers/models/fg110

Do you know what to set the points? I think I will clean it up again, set the points and try it once more. If not I am going to put it aside and go look at the FG110.

Regardless, I think I will try to get it running and donate it to a local non-profit arboretum. A friend and I donate time and materials to fix up their old equipment. See my post on resurrecting an old DR Bachtold.

Resurrecting two old DR Bachtold Mowers -- under general discussion category.

Jim

Timing spec is 20 degrees B.T.D.C. (fixed)

Here's a page from the shop manual on how to set the points:

Can you translate that into point gap?

Jim

Hello again Robert,

I followed up on your suggestion about the FG110. I first stopped at a Home Depot nearest our house. I went down the aisle and saw a fellow trying to make up his mind between a Cub Cadet and the FG110. There was only one left. I put in my two cents about my choice would be a Honda from past experience.

My wife pulled me off to the side to look at some kitchen tile and by the time we got back the Honda was gone and the Cub Cadet sitting there.

Being a former retail store owner I really didn't want to buy the FG110 from Home Depot so I found another mower and garden tractor specialty dealer. The price was the same. This was definitely the place to buy.

I started talking to him about the old G200 and this is what the mechanic told me.

His first guess was that the coil was not making a good contact with the engine block. He said in our climate where it gets humid and wet in the winter and dry in the summer the metal rusts and then loses contact. He said clean it up and put it back together.

Then he revealed some other troubleshooting info:

First look at the points. If there is a build up on the fixed side it is probably the coil. If the little build up point is on the moving point it is probably the condenser.

Set the points .012 and the plug from .028 to .032.

I haven't had time to work on it again but I will let you know what happens. In the meantime we are going to purchase the FG110. I want to get the old G200 running. It still has lots of life in it and I plan to donate it to a local non-profit Arboretum.

Anyway, thanks for your information and pointing me to the FG110.

Jim

Victory this morning. I got a new set of points and a condenser. I had to drill out a sleeve to free the old condenser but it left enough of a shoulder to center it. I soldered in the new one on the coil, mounted the points and then looked for a plug gauge. I have most of my tools at my shop (always the ones I need, it seems). My luck the gauge was in metric, so off to the converter to convert .012 inches to metric.

I reassembled it. This Honda G200 is really nicely laid out and easy to work on. I pulled the plug, lay it against the engine--nice spark. A few turns later it fired up. Alas, victory.

I never figured out exactly what the problem was. It could have been either the points or the condenser. It could have been as one suggestion a poor ground of the coil to the chassis. It works and I approach the old tiller with new faith.

There are some things that need to be addressed. The shift mechanism (two gears forward, one reverse) is working with great difficulty. The throttle cable is a bit stiff to operate.

Anyway, I thought I would relay my findings.

I don't know how to time these engines but .012 works great for the points gap. The plug gap is .030. I never found out exactly what to put on the cam but I did dig out an old tube of cam grease and it seemed to be up to the task.

Anyway, thank you Robert for all your help plus my local Honda dealer.

Jim