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Dumping oil from the bottom seal

#1

A

arch252

17hp twin cylinder liquid cooled Kawi on a JD LX279. Got it out to start the season and used it about 15 minutes and parked it and saw oil dumping from the bottom. Raised it up and removed the PTO and pulley and the bottom seal looked good but that's obviously where the oil came from.

I replaced the seal and ran it about 15 minutes again and parked it and it dumped the oil again. I figured I had just gotten sloppy when replacing the new seal. Raised it up and again I could tell the oil came from the seal but it looked good.

I got another seal. Removed the old one. Checked the shaft very carefully. No burrs, marks or rust, it was very clean. I carefully installed the new seal. Ran it for about 1 minute with the PTO and pulley off, no drips at all. Two days later I got the mower out and ran it again and about the 15 minute mark it started dumping the oil again.

There was an old thread here with someone who had the same exact issue but there was never any cause identified.

I'm using Rotella synthetic, I forget what weight. Mower runs good otherwise, no smoke, no knocking.

There is no oil dripping from the seal. It's not until the mower has been running about 15 minutes and then it dumps the oil, a good steady stream.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on here?


#2

L

Luffydog

Do a leak down test you prob find your problem lies in the top end. Like blow by from the rings or worn cyclinder or blown head gaskets. Also if it has a valve cover with a breather valve and the hose. Check the hose make sure it is good. But do the leak down test it should lead you to the prob.


#3

L

Luffydog

Engine numbers would be a good thing to better help out with the prob.


#4

cpurvis

cpurvis

What did the original seal look like? Could you see any damaged areas on it?

How about the seals you installed? Could you see any damaged areas on them?

If not, as suggested above, you may have a problem with crankcase ventilation.


#5

B

bertsmobile1

arch252 said:
17hp twin cylinder liquid cooled Kawi on a JD LX279. Got it out to start the season and used it about 15 minutes and parked it and saw oil dumping from the bottom. Raised it up and removed the PTO and pulley and the bottom seal looked good but that's obviously where the oil came from.

I replaced the seal and ran it about 15 minutes again and parked it and it dumped the oil again. I figured I had just gotten sloppy when replacing the new seal. Raised it up and again I could tell the oil came from the seal but it looked good.

I got another seal. Removed the old one. Checked the shaft very carefully. No burrs, marks or rust, it was very clean. I carefully installed the new seal. Ran it for about 1 minute with the PTO and pulley off, no drips at all. Two days later I got the mower out and ran it again and about the 15 minute mark it started dumping the oil again.

There was an old thread here with someone who had the same exact issue but there was never any cause identified.

I'm using Rotella synthetic, I forget what weight. Mower runs good otherwise, no smoke, no knocking.

There is no oil dripping from the seal. It's not until the mower has been running about 15 minutes and then it dumps the oil, a good steady stream.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on here?
Click to expand...

Clock the crankshaft
a bent crank will do exactly what is happening to you


#6

L

Luffydog

I also thought about it being bent as well. I have heard of people putting two seals in to stop the leak.


#7

cpurvis

cpurvis

Luffydog said:
I also thought about it being bent as well. I have heard of people putting two seals in to stop the leak.
Click to expand...



Got it out to start the season and used it about 15 minutes and parked it and saw oil dumping from the bottom.
Click to expand...
That statement seems to imply that the mower was not leaking oil when it was put away for the season. One has to wonder when and how the crank may have gotten bent while it was in storage.


#8

L

Luffydog

Some of those r very famous for melting the valve covers and leaking as well.


#9

A

arch252

The engine is a FD501V. The original seal looked great. Both replacement seals looked fine when I put then in. It ran great all summer, never had any leaks. Nothing has been done that would have caused a bent crank, hasn't hit anything. It would have to be an internal issue.

The guy in the previous thread said he had reason to belive his crank was somehow lifting up above the seal, his problem also was occurring after 15 minutes of operation. I think he did an engine swap so never identified the cause of his trouble.

I'm at a loss and I'm not ready to pull the engine and split it open until I have somewhat of an idea of what the cause might be.


#10

B

bertsmobile1

arch252 said:
The engine is a FD501V. The original seal looked great. Both replacement seals looked fine when I put then in. It ran great all summer, never had any leaks. Nothing has been done that would have caused a bent crank, hasn't hit anything. It would have to be an internal issue.

The guy in the previous thread said he had reason to belive his crank was somehow lifting up above the seal, his problem also was occurring after 15 minutes of operation. I think he did an engine swap so never identified the cause of his trouble.

I'm at a loss and I'm not ready to pull the engine and split it open until I have somewhat of an idea of what the cause might be.
Click to expand...

Grab the flywheel and try to lift it up.
There should be 0.010" to 0.040" up and down movement.
Try to move it left right
There should be no movement.

When engines are run low oil it can chew out the bottom seat for the crank.


#11

A

arch252

Thank Bert, I'll try that. It's liquid cooled so you know what a pain that is just to get to the flywheel. I suppose I could remove the PTO and pulley and push up on the bottom shaft and accomplish the same thing.


#12

A

arch252

Sorry it's taken so long to get to this. No up and down play on the crankshaft so I just bit the bullet and went ahead and pulled the engine and split the case. The crankshaft was badly scored and the opening on the sump was also worn. Not sure how those got out of alignment because the engine ran very smoothly. Pics attached. This is my mower and I really like it. Any reason not to find a reasonably priced used crank and sump and fix it?

Attachments







#13

A

arch252

Looks like I can get a good used sump for $45 and a good used crank for $40. Any reason not to do that?


#14

cpurvis

cpurvis

I'm not sure I see the damage to the sump that you describe. It looks to me like there are remnants of a seal that someone has tried to remove by prying.

I think, but not sure, that a good machine shop can turn your crankshaft and install a sleeve to match the original O.D.

This may be more expensive than buying the sump and crank, though. If you go that route, you probably ought to get the rod as well.


#15

B

bertsmobile1

Yep that bearing surface is toast and the crank does not look much better.
Easy way will be new crank & sump.
Stick the old ones on Craigs list when you are finised there is always some semi- retired machinist who will delight in cleaning up the crank and bushing the sump.
If you have a mate who is a machinist that you pay with booze then go that way but the set up cost for a commercial machinist will be more than the cost of replacements.

A new rod is a good idea but will greatly increase the cost as it will involve new rings and head gasket.
Take the old ones with you whev you go to oick up the replacements to ensure they are in fact the same


#16

A

arch252

Sounds good, I'm goimg to replace the crank and sump and I'll let you know how it works out.


#17

A

arch252

Sorry, been meaning to update. I replaced the crank and sump with good used parts. I haven't been able to run it for an extended time but for the few minutes I have had it running it's smooth as silk.

Side note, I don't know why I always try to convince myself that I can remove a crankshaft from a twin cylinder engine without removing one of the pistons but you can get it sooo close that I can't help but spend a half hour trying to wiggle and jiggle it just right and as usual....it never works. A piston has to come out. I wish I could get that through my thick head.


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