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CV461s 16 HP. New aftermarket carb, won't run correctly?
#1
J
joea99
J
joea99
Sears/Craftsman LT1000 model 917.272061 with Kohler CV461s. As I inherited a JD 240GT I was going to sell the LT1000 as "Ran fine when parked". But, in a fit of "conscience", I found it would not start, even on starter fluid. Pulled my ad.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
#2
M
mechanic mark
Service Manual CV461 above, See section 5 Fuel System.
Aftermarket carb. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-12-853-93-Kohler-Craftsman-Riding/dp/B08LCHVQKF
Non OEM Kohler Carburetor above will not work. If engine part is not OEM Kohler refrain from purchasing.
M
mechanic mark
Free Kohler Service Manual Downloads - OPEengines.com
Listed below are Kohler engine service repair manual in Adobe PDF format that you can download for free. Below we have provided a link to these manuals which can also be download. Click on your engine listed below to download. These service manuals provide general information, adjustment...
www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com
Aftermarket carb. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-12-853-93-Kohler-Craftsman-Riding/dp/B08LCHVQKF
Non OEM Kohler Carburetor above will not work. If engine part is not OEM Kohler refrain from purchasing.
#3
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
My suggestion is to do what you can to try to get original carburetor to work. My experience with aftermarket carburetors in general is good, just not with Kohler engines. You may have to drill out pilot jet to get air/fuel mixture right. If you don’t know how to do this, do not attempt.Service Manual CV461 above.Free Kohler Service Manual Downloads - OPEengines.com
Listed below are Kohler engine service repair manual in Adobe PDF format that you can download for free. Below we have provided a link to these manuals which can also be download. Click on your engine listed below to download. These service manuals provide general information, adjustment...www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com
Aftermarket carb. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-12-853-93-Kohler-Craftsman-Riding/dp/B08LCHVQKF
Non OEM Kohler Carburetor above will not work. If engine part is not OEM Kohler refrain from purchasing.
#4
J
joea99
The big problem with the original carb was the solenoid was pretty rare and the one I found the price of 4 of these aftermarket carbs. I guess I should see if I can adapt one of the new ones.
Nothing to loose to try, or even to drill out the jet.
J
joea99
I've used aftermarket carbs on other gear, chainsaws, splitters and such, with good results. None of them where Kohlers, now that I review them.My suggestion is to do what you can to try to get original carburetor to work. My experience with aftermarket carburetors in general is good, just not with Kohler engines. You may have to drill out pilot jet to get air/fuel mixture right. If you don’t know how to do this, do not attempt.
The big problem with the original carb was the solenoid was pretty rare and the one I found the price of 4 of these aftermarket carbs. I guess I should see if I can adapt one of the new ones.
Nothing to loose to try, or even to drill out the jet.
#5
J
joea99
Already ordered a very similar one. Two in fact, each from different suppliers. Both acted basically the same.
I'll see if I can rustle up the old carb and get it going, even without the solenoid.
J
joea99
Thanks for the link to the manual.Service Manual CV461 above.Free Kohler Service Manual Downloads - OPEengines.com
Listed below are Kohler engine service repair manual in Adobe PDF format that you can download for free. Below we have provided a link to these manuals which can also be download. Click on your engine listed below to download. These service manuals provide general information, adjustment...www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com
Aftermarket carb. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-12-853-93-Kohler-Craftsman-Riding/dp/B08LCHVQKF
Non OEM Kohler Carburetor above will not work. If engine part is not OEM Kohler refrain from purchasing.
Already ordered a very similar one. Two in fact, each from different suppliers. Both acted basically the same.
I'll see if I can rustle up the old carb and get it going, even without the solenoid.
#6
StarTech
StarTech
You can't willy nilly replace carburetor.
Now you didn't post the spec number of the CV461 but if it is the original engine then the spec 26504, which the current carburetor is PN 12 853 179-S (superseded from 12 853 132-S) and it lists for $231.38.
And yes if you have the original Nikki carburetor the fuel solenoid is unique as it has the main fuel jet mounted on the solenoid. This mean that they are going to be costly as Kohler engines were the only ones to use it.
Now you didn't post the spec number of the CV461 but if it is the original engine then the spec 26504, which the current carburetor is PN 12 853 179-S (superseded from 12 853 132-S) and it lists for $231.38.
And yes if you have the original Nikki carburetor the fuel solenoid is unique as it has the main fuel jet mounted on the solenoid. This mean that they are going to be costly as Kohler engines were the only ones to use it.
#7
J
joea99
It is a CV461s code 26504.
Surely there must be a workable replacement does not cost more than the mower is worth(.) (?). I guess that falls between a statement and a question.
J
joea99
You can't willy nilly replace carburetor.
Now you didn't post the spec number of the CV461 but if it is the original engine then the spec 26504, which the current carburetor is PN 12 853 179-S (superseded from 12 853 132-S) and it lists for $231.38.
And yes if you have the original Nikki carburetor the fuel solenoid is unique as it has the main fuel jet mounted on the solenoid. This mean that they are going to be costly as Kohler engines were the only ones to use it.
It is a CV461s code 26504.
Surely there must be a workable replacement does not cost more than the mower is worth(.) (?). I guess that falls between a statement and a question.
#8
V
VegetiveSteam
V
VegetiveSteam
Three different carbs all with the same result would lead me to believe that it's not a carb issue. Are you getting power to the fuel solenoid? Any possibility of posting a video showing how the engine acts?
#9
J
joea99
There were two issues when attempting to get it going. The coil was bad. Replaced and ran on ether or gas dribbled in the carb. The solenoid was bad on the original carb, so, went with aftermarket, as reviews seemed positive.
It crossed my mind that maybe it was some other issue. But what?
I can try and make a video later on, a bit under the weather at the moment.
It does have power to the solenoid. Basically, it will start and run on the choke. After warming a bit, starts to sputter on the choke smooths out when the choke is off but then dies unless put back on the choke, "just a tad". It will run pretty well that way, but not without some fiddling with the choke. Never full on, but not "off" either.
J
joea99
Two actually. Both aftermarket. It ran fine on the original carb, last summer. I just parked it when I got the other mower.Three different carbs all with the same result would lead me to believe that it's not a carb issue. Are you getting power to the fuel solenoid? Any possibility of posting a video showing how the engine acts?
There were two issues when attempting to get it going. The coil was bad. Replaced and ran on ether or gas dribbled in the carb. The solenoid was bad on the original carb, so, went with aftermarket, as reviews seemed positive.
It crossed my mind that maybe it was some other issue. But what?
I can try and make a video later on, a bit under the weather at the moment.
It does have power to the solenoid. Basically, it will start and run on the choke. After warming a bit, starts to sputter on the choke smooths out when the choke is off but then dies unless put back on the choke, "just a tad". It will run pretty well that way, but not without some fiddling with the choke. Never full on, but not "off" either.
#10
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
You know the carb off a SV singles will work right on the CV singles. Have uesd them on several occasions have one on a CV490 right now. Runs fine.
#11
J
joea99
J
joea99
No, did not know that. Do you mean aftermarket carbs or "genuine Kohler" carbs? Any idea what will work on CV461s?You know the carb off a SV singles will work right on the CV singles. Have uesd them on several occasions have one on a CV490 right now. Runs fine.
#12
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Can someone post a picture of this anti afterfire solenoid for this Kohler engine that is apparently so unique only to Kohler and maybe on this particular model number Kohler? Because if the darn solenoid is not working or even “fluttering”, I will bypass it. Probably disabled a dozen this year alone.No, did not know that. Do you mean aftermarket carbs or "genuine Kohler" carbs? Any idea what will work on CV461s?
#13
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Genuine Kohler never tried the AM.No, did not know that. Do you mean aftermarket carbs or "genuine Kohler" carbs? Any idea what will work on CV461s?
#14
StarTech
StarTech
Well I don't one on the shelf for a reason. But is one from the net. Now the one use in this particular Nikki may not have the jet in the solenoid but in the carb. Either way it is the same setup. Now if the OP has a Walbro it uses a different solenoid. Later replacement carbs are usually using a more familiar solenoid design.Can someone post a picture of this anti afterfire solenoid for this Kohler engine that is apparently so unique only to Kohler and maybe on this particular model number Kohler? Because if the darn solenoid is not working or even “fluttering”, I will bypass it. Probably disabled a dozen this year alone.
#15
305
305
I don't have close to the knowledge as the other guys who replied to this post but I've had a similar experience with a generator.
I've used after market carbs, even the cheapest Chinese built carbs on the market on some of my equipment and they worked fine. I bought 3 after markets carbs for my generator and none fixed my problem rather made it worse. I finally spent 5 times the money to get an OEM carb and it solved the problem. It was available and in stock which sounds like yours is much harder to come by.
Anyway, good luck. I hope you get it figured out.
I've used after market carbs, even the cheapest Chinese built carbs on the market on some of my equipment and they worked fine. I bought 3 after markets carbs for my generator and none fixed my problem rather made it worse. I finally spent 5 times the money to get an OEM carb and it solved the problem. It was available and in stock which sounds like yours is much harder to come by.
Anyway, good luck. I hope you get it figured out.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is a one wire solenoid then you need a jumper from the block to the carb body to provide a sound ground connection
You can usually clean them out by spraying with carb cleaner then working the pin in & out
As with the others it is not one I am familiar with
In theory you should be able to replace any carb with another one but some are a lot harder to do
You have the throat size , main jet size, idle jet size and the leverage ratio between the throttle butterfly & the governor rotation plus the direction of the governor rotation to take into account
I have seen some where the hole in the lever on top of the butterfly had to be repositioned .
On some set ups the governor pushes to slow the engine while on others it has to push .
You can usually clean them out by spraying with carb cleaner then working the pin in & out
As with the others it is not one I am familiar with
In theory you should be able to replace any carb with another one but some are a lot harder to do
You have the throat size , main jet size, idle jet size and the leverage ratio between the throttle butterfly & the governor rotation plus the direction of the governor rotation to take into account
I have seen some where the hole in the lever on top of the butterfly had to be repositioned .
On some set ups the governor pushes to slow the engine while on others it has to push .
#17
V
V-Tran
V
V-Tran
An overlooked problem is bad fuel especially if older than 30 days. Drain whatever fuel you have left over in the tank and dump what's in the gas can. Check tank for debris. Blow out the fuel lines with compressed air. Check petcock. Get fresh gas and retry.
#18
R
ruperthebare
R
ruperthebare
Hi, had exactly the same problem, ended up replacing new aftermarket carb with original, replaced float and inlet needle from (new) and now runs fine again. See my most recent post for details
#19
H
Hoagie12
H
Hoagie12
Sears/Craftsman LT1000 model 917.272061 with Kohler CV461s. As I inherited a JD 240GT I was going to sell the LT1000 as "Ran fine when parked". But, in a fit of "conscience", I found it would not start, even on starter fluid. Pulled my ad.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
#20
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Blowing out the fuel line with compressed air may not work. just had one that the inside of the line had collapsed that you can blow air through but fuel could not run through it. Cut it open and it was totally collapsed. Replaced the line and cured the problem.
#21
H
Hoagie12
H
Hoagie12
I had similar problem. I ended up taking the jet out of the old carburetor and put it in the new carburetor. Fixed the problem! The hole is much larger in the old carburetor
#22
F
Freddie21
F
Freddie21
Post a pic of the fuel solenoid. May have a suggestion. It sounds like the replacement carbs are running too lean. Not enough gas getting through them. Check\replace everything from the carb to the fuel tank and run without cap on the tank. If rthat doesn't help, check the valve lash. If all this fails, you can try boring out the main jet a bit at a time till it gets enough gas.
#23
J
Johner
J
Johner
Sears/Craftsman LT1000 model 917.272061 with Kohler CV461s. As I inherited a JD 240GT I was going to sell the LT1000 as "Ran fine when parked". But, in a fit of "conscience", I found it would not start, even on starter fluid. Pulled my ad.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
Sears/Craftsman LT1000 model 917.272061 with Kohler CV461s. As I inherited a JD 240GT I was going to sell the LT1000 as "Ran fine when parked". But, in a fit of "conscience", I found it would not start, even on starter fluid. Pulled my ad.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
#24
J
Johner
J
Johner
Sears/Craftsman LT1000 model 917.272061 with Kohler CV461s. As I inherited a JD 240GT I was going to sell the LT1000 as "Ran fine when parked". But, in a fit of "conscience", I found it would not start, even on starter fluid. Pulled my ad.
Replaced coil and it would start and run on spritz can. Not getting gas. Found solenoid on carb to be stuck and would not free up.
Ordered and installed an Aftermarket Carb and fuel filter. It ran fine when started up, so embarked on more fixes. New Blades, Belt, an idler pulley and, having snapped it, the clutch actuator cable. Ah, Ready for Freddy.
Oops. Got about 5 feet and it started running rough then quit. See what having a conscience will do for you?
Fiddled around a bit and found it would run ok, but just a bit shy of "choke 100% off". But it was a bit finicky. As in not consistent.
They replaced the carb, no questions asked, no return required. Same deal. I could see the throttle lever "hunting" a lot and decided that having no bushing in the carb hole end allowed too much "slop" for it to be happy, so ordered the only part I could find. That did not really fit well, seeming it would not snap on to the rod and not interfere with the range of motion. Kind of "mirror image" would seem right.
Anyway, that did not resolve the issue, so, ordered another After Market from another supplier, that also claimed to be for this engine. And a number of others, so . . .
It does the same thing. I find these carbs have two adjustment screws, one is fully exposed and appears to control idle speed, the other is "in" the carb and I suspect must be for "richness". Changing that screw seems to do nothing.
Suggestions? Other than "part it out", "cut your losses"? Well, I guess those are valid also, so fire away.
#25
M
MowerNick
M
MowerNick
I would try cutting the plunger off the original fuel solenoid and trying the original arb back on. It may leak afterward but you can always install a shutoff valve.
#26
T
TobyU
T
TobyU
This is a classic example of why I say it's almost always better to keep the carburetor you have, the original one, has opposed to what so many people do in jumping the gun and buying some aftermarket cheap one or even going and buying an oem one because carburetors typically don't wear out. They usually just get clogged up.
Even with OEM stuff, since the quality is much lower today than many of the older machines were working on, you were off and putting on a poorer quality carburetor then you are taking off.
It sounds like there is either an intake air leak somewhere or it is still running lean. My gas is the car is still running late, both of them you've tried.
Even though it's not as common on these, it sounds a little bit like the secondary or what you can call idle speed circuit is also clogged up.
Many of the original carbs had only one mixture screw on them because the other screw was just an idle stop screw..
This mixture screw had little to no effect on the full throttle running but certainly had an effect on the low idle speed.
However if this is passage is totally clogged up it will affect before running speed typically causing a surge.
I have seen people try to make the main jet whole larger to compensate for this when all they really need to do is clean out that secondary idle circuit.
There is also often a little hole or several little holes drilled into the throat / bore of the carburetor closer to the engine side near the main throttle plate.
This is where that passage is drilled to take air to where the screw moves to adjust how much can go through but if that passage gets clogged up it's basically doing nothing.
I run a wire through the inside part of this and on some carburetors like Hondas a wire through the part underneath the screw too but I always blast the whole out and passage out with carb cleaner spray and strong compressed air.
If that doesn't fix it and you don't find an intake leak by spraying carb cleaner around the intake and all other connections to the engine, then you could buy a mini drill kit and enlarge the main jet just a bit.
You have to be very careful because a little bit ends up being too much if you're not.
You basically want to use the bottom sides of the drills to find the one that does go through the current hole size and then go up just to the next one and then put it back together and try it. You hardly ever have to go over two drill sizes otherwise you'll end up in a situation where it runs rich all the time and has low power.
Even with OEM stuff, since the quality is much lower today than many of the older machines were working on, you were off and putting on a poorer quality carburetor then you are taking off.
It sounds like there is either an intake air leak somewhere or it is still running lean. My gas is the car is still running late, both of them you've tried.
Even though it's not as common on these, it sounds a little bit like the secondary or what you can call idle speed circuit is also clogged up.
Many of the original carbs had only one mixture screw on them because the other screw was just an idle stop screw..
This mixture screw had little to no effect on the full throttle running but certainly had an effect on the low idle speed.
However if this is passage is totally clogged up it will affect before running speed typically causing a surge.
I have seen people try to make the main jet whole larger to compensate for this when all they really need to do is clean out that secondary idle circuit.
There is also often a little hole or several little holes drilled into the throat / bore of the carburetor closer to the engine side near the main throttle plate.
This is where that passage is drilled to take air to where the screw moves to adjust how much can go through but if that passage gets clogged up it's basically doing nothing.
I run a wire through the inside part of this and on some carburetors like Hondas a wire through the part underneath the screw too but I always blast the whole out and passage out with carb cleaner spray and strong compressed air.
If that doesn't fix it and you don't find an intake leak by spraying carb cleaner around the intake and all other connections to the engine, then you could buy a mini drill kit and enlarge the main jet just a bit.
You have to be very careful because a little bit ends up being too much if you're not.
You basically want to use the bottom sides of the drills to find the one that does go through the current hole size and then go up just to the next one and then put it back together and try it. You hardly ever have to go over two drill sizes otherwise you'll end up in a situation where it runs rich all the time and has low power.
#27
grumpyunk
grumpyunk
I may have missed it, but am under the impression that the carburetor is a Nikki. I have one so equipped and the ABF solenoid is unique, to say the least. It holds the main jet inside the part that screws into the bottom of the float bowl.
The jet is almost like a coin with a hole drilled.
The aftermarket likely is the more common probe that blocks the fuel to the main jet.
The hunting can be caused by two things in many cases. Loose linkage that has so much slop the governor is always 'chasing' the throttle position, and never 'gets it right'. Solution may be to add a spring to tension the link between the governor arm and the throttle plate bellcrank. Second thing is the holes in the venturi right behind the throttle plate. They allow a smidge of extra fuel when the throttle opens due to load increase and the governor letting the throttle spring pull it more open. If blocked, a 'lean surge' can be caused as the air moves quickly, but the fuel takes a bit more time to get going to catch up to the increased airflow. Make sure the tiny pinholes are open.
A third cause is difference in linkage between the original and the aftermarket. The bellcrank on the throttle shaft will move more or less than the original depending on the radius (distance it is from the shaft center) of the hole the governor link is plopped into. If the hole is closer to the throttle shaft, the governor will move the throttle plate a bit less than the OEM did. If the hole is further away from the throttle shaft, it will move the throttle plate MORE than the OEM. You may have to measure, and select a different hole in the governor arm to get the same amount of motion of the throttle plate for a given motion of the governor arm. Or,you may not have to do anything and it will work out-of-the-box as-is.
I'd check the governor linkage for slop, check the holes in the sidewall of the venturi, and as a last resort get out the tiny drill bits, and work my way up in size in the main jet until it ran well, given everything else is good.
Finally, the idle mixture is used when the engine is running at all speeds. It is not a huge factor, but if it feeds the venturi holes, opening the idle mixture screw a bit may help enrich the fuel mixture and remove the surge.
I personally would not buy a new Nikki, especially for a couple hundred for a mower that is worth maybe $500-600. I would look for a used Walbro from another Kohler/AYP mower, and just plop that on.
tom
The jet is almost like a coin with a hole drilled.
The aftermarket likely is the more common probe that blocks the fuel to the main jet.
The hunting can be caused by two things in many cases. Loose linkage that has so much slop the governor is always 'chasing' the throttle position, and never 'gets it right'. Solution may be to add a spring to tension the link between the governor arm and the throttle plate bellcrank. Second thing is the holes in the venturi right behind the throttle plate. They allow a smidge of extra fuel when the throttle opens due to load increase and the governor letting the throttle spring pull it more open. If blocked, a 'lean surge' can be caused as the air moves quickly, but the fuel takes a bit more time to get going to catch up to the increased airflow. Make sure the tiny pinholes are open.
A third cause is difference in linkage between the original and the aftermarket. The bellcrank on the throttle shaft will move more or less than the original depending on the radius (distance it is from the shaft center) of the hole the governor link is plopped into. If the hole is closer to the throttle shaft, the governor will move the throttle plate a bit less than the OEM did. If the hole is further away from the throttle shaft, it will move the throttle plate MORE than the OEM. You may have to measure, and select a different hole in the governor arm to get the same amount of motion of the throttle plate for a given motion of the governor arm. Or,you may not have to do anything and it will work out-of-the-box as-is.
I'd check the governor linkage for slop, check the holes in the sidewall of the venturi, and as a last resort get out the tiny drill bits, and work my way up in size in the main jet until it ran well, given everything else is good.
Finally, the idle mixture is used when the engine is running at all speeds. It is not a huge factor, but if it feeds the venturi holes, opening the idle mixture screw a bit may help enrich the fuel mixture and remove the surge.
I personally would not buy a new Nikki, especially for a couple hundred for a mower that is worth maybe $500-600. I would look for a used Walbro from another Kohler/AYP mower, and just plop that on.
tom
#28
J
joea99
That is pretty much what mine looks like, but it has two leads coming out of it.
Measures about 20 ohms, but does not actuate when putting a battery to it. Sadly the battery has seen better days and only puts out 10 VDC.
I'm gonna soak the solenoid, threads down, in some vinegar and salt solution overnight, maybe that will clean up the corrosion.
J
joea99
Well I don't one on the shelf for a reason. But is one from the net. Now the one use in this particular Nikki may not have the jet in the solenoid but in the carb. Either way it is the same setup. Now if the OP has a Walbro it uses a different solenoid. Later replacement carbs are usually using a more familiar solenoid design.
View attachment 67313
That is pretty much what mine looks like, but it has two leads coming out of it.
Measures about 20 ohms, but does not actuate when putting a battery to it. Sadly the battery has seen better days and only puts out 10 VDC.
I'm gonna soak the solenoid, threads down, in some vinegar and salt solution overnight, maybe that will clean up the corrosion.
#29
J
joea99
I wondered about some of those points. Now that snow has covered the ground, I looked over the carbs and am having difficulty determining which jets should be looked at and maybe drilled. The throttle link I will examine.
J
joea99
I may have missed it, but am under the impression that the carburetor is a Nikki. I have one so equipped and the ABF solenoid is unique, to say the least. It holds the main jet inside the part that screws into the bottom of the float bowl.
The jet is almost like a coin with a hole drilled.
The aftermarket likely is the more common probe that blocks the fuel to the main jet.
The hunting can be caused by two things in many cases. Loose linkage that has so much slop the governor is always 'chasing' the throttle position, and never 'gets it right'. Solution may be to add a spring to tension the link between the governor arm and the throttle plate bellcrank. Second thing is the holes in the venturi right behind the throttle plate. They allow a smidge of extra fuel when the throttle opens due to load increase and the governor letting the throttle spring pull it more open. If blocked, a 'lean surge' can be caused as the air moves quickly, but the fuel takes a bit more time to get going to catch up to the increased airflow. Make sure the tiny pinholes are open.
A third cause is difference in linkage between the original and the aftermarket. The bellcrank on the throttle shaft will move more or less than the original depending on the radius (distance it is from the shaft center) of the hole the governor link is plopped into. If the hole is closer to the throttle shaft, the governor will move the throttle plate a bit less than the OEM did. If the hole is further away from the throttle shaft, it will move the throttle plate MORE than the OEM. You may have to measure, and select a different hole in the governor arm to get the same amount of motion of the throttle plate for a given motion of the governor arm. Or,you may not have to do anything and it will work out-of-the-box as-is.
I'd check the governor linkage for slop, check the holes in the sidewall of the venturi, and as a last resort get out the tiny drill bits, and work my way up in size in the main jet until it ran well, given everything else is good.
Finally, the idle mixture is used when the engine is running at all speeds. It is not a huge factor, but if it feeds the venturi holes, opening the idle mixture screw a bit may help enrich the fuel mixture and remove the surge.
I personally would not buy a new Nikki, especially for a couple hundred for a mower that is worth maybe $500-600. I would look for a used Walbro from another Kohler/AYP mower, and just plop that on.
tom
I wondered about some of those points. Now that snow has covered the ground, I looked over the carbs and am having difficulty determining which jets should be looked at and maybe drilled. The throttle link I will examine.
Attachments
#30
T
TobyU
98 times out of 100 if somebody drills the jet or even attempts to enlarge it at all, they will go too large and the carb will now be too rich forever.
Running a soft wire like a couple strands of copper wire twisted together with the end it snipped off cleanly and chamfered is an ideal way or I use some of the very cheap multi-pack assortment of springs that I unwind until I find one just the right thickness to run through the hole a few times.
I'm guessing that carburetor is aftermarket and I have no desire to mess with any of those because many of them are wrong from the get-go.
I've ended up with a few of them and use them for parts to Frankenstein other things back together before but I don't see removable Jets like should be present in the style carburetor.
The brass jet in the side of the aluminum tube going down into the bowl should stick out more and be removable from a slot in it for a flathead screwdriver.
Regardless, this is where you would run a wire through and blow it out with carb cleaner and compressed air to make sure it's clean.
Many of these style carbs that don't have the jet there will have it up inside of this middle tube and that flat brass looking land up in there won't be visible but rather it will have a brass screw in jet with the slot for a flat head screwdriver again so you can unscrew it and remove it and the emulsion tube above it and clean everything out well with carb cleaner and compressed air.
On this one it looks like you can run your wire up through the bottom there but once it's back on you're going to have to determine whether the engine is running rich or lean.
I haven't read back through the entire thread to see if this was mentioned before but it's usually pretty easy to determine by adding a little bit of choke or my preference is to use my finger or thumb or just a folded over shop cloth to slightly block the throat of the carb to see if that makes it stop surging and smooth out and speed up or if it makes it continue to burble and run even worse which means it's rich.
I tell people to never take off the original carburetor or try to replace it because nine times out of 10 you're putting a worse quality carburetor on than the one you're taking off.
Most carburetors do not wear out or fail, they simply get clogged up.
T
TobyU
No Jets should be drilled at all!I wondered about some of those points. Now that snow has covered the ground, I looked over the carbs and am having difficulty determining which jets should be looked at and maybe drilled. The throttle link I will examine.
98 times out of 100 if somebody drills the jet or even attempts to enlarge it at all, they will go too large and the carb will now be too rich forever.
Running a soft wire like a couple strands of copper wire twisted together with the end it snipped off cleanly and chamfered is an ideal way or I use some of the very cheap multi-pack assortment of springs that I unwind until I find one just the right thickness to run through the hole a few times.
I'm guessing that carburetor is aftermarket and I have no desire to mess with any of those because many of them are wrong from the get-go.
I've ended up with a few of them and use them for parts to Frankenstein other things back together before but I don't see removable Jets like should be present in the style carburetor.
The brass jet in the side of the aluminum tube going down into the bowl should stick out more and be removable from a slot in it for a flathead screwdriver.
Regardless, this is where you would run a wire through and blow it out with carb cleaner and compressed air to make sure it's clean.
Many of these style carbs that don't have the jet there will have it up inside of this middle tube and that flat brass looking land up in there won't be visible but rather it will have a brass screw in jet with the slot for a flat head screwdriver again so you can unscrew it and remove it and the emulsion tube above it and clean everything out well with carb cleaner and compressed air.
On this one it looks like you can run your wire up through the bottom there but once it's back on you're going to have to determine whether the engine is running rich or lean.
I haven't read back through the entire thread to see if this was mentioned before but it's usually pretty easy to determine by adding a little bit of choke or my preference is to use my finger or thumb or just a folded over shop cloth to slightly block the throat of the carb to see if that makes it stop surging and smooth out and speed up or if it makes it continue to burble and run even worse which means it's rich.
I tell people to never take off the original carburetor or try to replace it because nine times out of 10 you're putting a worse quality carburetor on than the one you're taking off.
Most carburetors do not wear out or fail, they simply get clogged up.
#31
J
joea99
J
joea99
Rounded up the original carb. Soaked the frozen solenoid, not up to the electrical "seal" in a mix of vinegar and table salt. This is known to be an effective "corrosion remover". Let is sit for a day, then probed the solenoid plunger with a toothpick, testing if free. Sure enough it move a bit, so soaked it another day. Freed up quite nicely, so rinsed it out well and squirted a bit of WD40, then tested it with a 12v battery. Seemed to click nicely, so, I think it's "good".
Soaked the carb, bowl and main jet in a dilute mix of "Industrial" Simple Green, which is NOT green, per their carb cleaning ratio. Done this before with other carbs and some plastic Gas tanks that were really gummed up. Amazed at how well a water based solution worked.
Let it sit for a few days, ok, I forgot about them, and they cleaned up quite well, too. Rinsed with water and blew out with air, then doused with WD-40 for good measure.
Look good to me, only concern is the float bowl "needle" and the bowl gaskets. With the prices for repair kits being in the "No Way Jose" zone, I pretty much think I will just chance it with what I've got.
In the spring, when it get's a bit warmer and drier outside.
Mean time, I wonder if I should get a eBay special "Ultrasonic Cleaner" as a new toy?
Soaked the carb, bowl and main jet in a dilute mix of "Industrial" Simple Green, which is NOT green, per their carb cleaning ratio. Done this before with other carbs and some plastic Gas tanks that were really gummed up. Amazed at how well a water based solution worked.
Let it sit for a few days, ok, I forgot about them, and they cleaned up quite well, too. Rinsed with water and blew out with air, then doused with WD-40 for good measure.
Look good to me, only concern is the float bowl "needle" and the bowl gaskets. With the prices for repair kits being in the "No Way Jose" zone, I pretty much think I will just chance it with what I've got.
In the spring, when it get's a bit warmer and drier outside.
Mean time, I wonder if I should get a eBay special "Ultrasonic Cleaner" as a new toy?
#32
M
mechanic mark
www.searspartsdirect.com
www.sepw.com
M
mechanic mark
Official Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts | Sears PartsDirect
Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts - manufacturer-approved parts for a proper fit every time! We also have installation guides, diagrams and manuals to help you along the way!
www.searspartsdirect.com
Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
www.sepw.com
#33
J
joea99
Thanks. Hard to say if the cheaper kits will fit the carb I have despite the number not matching exactly. It is kind of unique, from what I have read.
But for a few bucks probably worth a try.
J
joea99
Official Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts | Sears PartsDirect
Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts - manufacturer-approved parts for a proper fit every time! We also have installation guides, diagrams and manuals to help you along the way!Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
Thanks. Hard to say if the cheaper kits will fit the carb I have despite the number not matching exactly. It is kind of unique, from what I have read.
But for a few bucks probably worth a try.
#34
T
TobyU
For some reason, in the past 15 or so years are you at handful of people have bought these and they kind of insist on using them to clean out carburetors when it's a lot more time and effort on their part plus the expensive buying the cleaner.
Then there's the big discussion about different things they use as the cleaning fluid but it's all irrelevant to me.
I understand not everyone does this for a living and needs to be or wants to be as efficient as possible but even when you're peddling and tinkering with things and have lots of free time, why wouldn't you want to apply that to doing other things instead of wasting all the extra time to clean carbs this way?
All you really need is a can of spray carb cleaner which I've been using the super tech from Walmart almost exclusively for a number of years because it's the cheapest one out there. It works just as well as gumout or any other brand and even though it's gone up three different times since covid, it's still the cheapest I can get per ounce.
This, and some paper towels, or the thicker white rags from a box, or the blue shop disposable shop clothes or regular red shop cloths or microfiber towels or old t-shirts etc..... fit the bill nicely for cleaning out bowls etc.
The issue I have with the way most people approach a carburetor problem is the first thing they do is spend a bunch of time and risk messing things up by taking the entire carburetor off the machine.
This is unnecessary at least 85-90% of the time.
On most of these Kohler CV series on riders or zero turns, if you put a pad down and kneel on it or sit on the ground, they are right at eye level.
Cleaning one of these out and getting them to run properly is somewhere between a 7 and 12 minute procedure if that.
If it's a gravity fed one where it's going to leak, you can either pinch the fuel line if it's still soft and pliable or just remove the fuel line from the carburetor and sticky 5/16 bolt in it or whatever to plug it.
Then remove the ball and spray off the insides of the carb and the float etc and wipe out the inside of the bowl.
They're the most important part is the main jet which is usually screwed into the side of the center part of the carb that dips down into the bowl.
You can easily blast that out with the straw tube attachment on the carb cleaner can and I often use strong compressed air from my compressor blow gun also and I like to run a soft copper wire or something through there that soft enough that's not going to enlarge the brass jet.
Usually, the gaskets are reusable.
I typically like to but the fuel line back on and let a little bit of gas run through it as I work the float up and down with the top of my fingernail lightly and also make sure the float is adjusted properly but it usually is.
Then you put the bowl back on and the machine typically starts right up.
There's just no reason in the vast majority of these cases to remove the carburetor and risk tearing other gaskets or creating intake leaks and or mess up the adjustment of the linkage and governor as happens so commonly when people take these apart without lots of experience of putting them back together.
Very rarely I need for an ultrasonic cleaner or even soaking these.
Even on your typical Honda push mower which gets clogged up quite easily, even if you do have to take the carb off to clean out all of the passages, when simply cleaning the main jet won't get it running smoothly without surging, there's no reason to soak.
I have a couple of small, correctly sized wires, but I can reach into the smooth bore and clean out the small air bleed holes.
Once the carburetor is in my hand it takes no more than 4 minutes to fully clean it out and have it ready to put back on.
These Hondas are pretty simple so it's only about a minute and a half to two minutes to take it off and put it back on so again I'm right back at about the 8 or 9 minute mark.
I know it's not really a race and as I said earlier people who only have one to do have plenty of time they can take on it but I just don't see any reason to make it take longer than needed or to have to soak something overnight or days etc or even 20 or 30 minutes or to buy a device that isn't really necessary to get the desired goal.
I'll be doing one of those Hondas a little bit later today. Lol
Of course I'll also be doing a Tecumseh on a snowblower too.
T
TobyU
No you shouldn't. LolRounded up the original carb. Soaked the frozen solenoid, not up to the electrical "seal" in a mix of vinegar and table salt. This is known to be an effective "corrosion remover". Let is sit for a day, then probed the solenoid plunger with a toothpick, testing if free. Sure enough it move a bit, so soaked it another day. Freed up quite nicely, so rinsed it out well and squirted a bit of WD40, then tested it with a 12v battery. Seemed to click nicely, so, I think it's "good".
Soaked the carb, bowl and main jet in a dilute mix of "Industrial" Simple Green, which is NOT green, per their carb cleaning ratio. Done this before with other carbs and some plastic Gas tanks that were really gummed up. Amazed at how well a water based solution worked.
Let it sit for a few days, ok, I forgot about them, and they cleaned up quite well, too. Rinsed with water and blew out with air, then doused with WD-40 for good measure.
Look good to me, only concern is the float bowl "needle" and the bowl gaskets. With the prices for repair kits being in the "No Way Jose" zone, I pretty much think I will just chance it with what I've got.
In the spring, when it get's a bit warmer and drier outside.
Mean time, I wonder if I should get a eBay special "Ultrasonic Cleaner" as a new toy?
For some reason, in the past 15 or so years are you at handful of people have bought these and they kind of insist on using them to clean out carburetors when it's a lot more time and effort on their part plus the expensive buying the cleaner.
Then there's the big discussion about different things they use as the cleaning fluid but it's all irrelevant to me.
I understand not everyone does this for a living and needs to be or wants to be as efficient as possible but even when you're peddling and tinkering with things and have lots of free time, why wouldn't you want to apply that to doing other things instead of wasting all the extra time to clean carbs this way?
All you really need is a can of spray carb cleaner which I've been using the super tech from Walmart almost exclusively for a number of years because it's the cheapest one out there. It works just as well as gumout or any other brand and even though it's gone up three different times since covid, it's still the cheapest I can get per ounce.
This, and some paper towels, or the thicker white rags from a box, or the blue shop disposable shop clothes or regular red shop cloths or microfiber towels or old t-shirts etc..... fit the bill nicely for cleaning out bowls etc.
The issue I have with the way most people approach a carburetor problem is the first thing they do is spend a bunch of time and risk messing things up by taking the entire carburetor off the machine.
This is unnecessary at least 85-90% of the time.
On most of these Kohler CV series on riders or zero turns, if you put a pad down and kneel on it or sit on the ground, they are right at eye level.
Cleaning one of these out and getting them to run properly is somewhere between a 7 and 12 minute procedure if that.
If it's a gravity fed one where it's going to leak, you can either pinch the fuel line if it's still soft and pliable or just remove the fuel line from the carburetor and sticky 5/16 bolt in it or whatever to plug it.
Then remove the ball and spray off the insides of the carb and the float etc and wipe out the inside of the bowl.
They're the most important part is the main jet which is usually screwed into the side of the center part of the carb that dips down into the bowl.
You can easily blast that out with the straw tube attachment on the carb cleaner can and I often use strong compressed air from my compressor blow gun also and I like to run a soft copper wire or something through there that soft enough that's not going to enlarge the brass jet.
Usually, the gaskets are reusable.
I typically like to but the fuel line back on and let a little bit of gas run through it as I work the float up and down with the top of my fingernail lightly and also make sure the float is adjusted properly but it usually is.
Then you put the bowl back on and the machine typically starts right up.
There's just no reason in the vast majority of these cases to remove the carburetor and risk tearing other gaskets or creating intake leaks and or mess up the adjustment of the linkage and governor as happens so commonly when people take these apart without lots of experience of putting them back together.
Very rarely I need for an ultrasonic cleaner or even soaking these.
Even on your typical Honda push mower which gets clogged up quite easily, even if you do have to take the carb off to clean out all of the passages, when simply cleaning the main jet won't get it running smoothly without surging, there's no reason to soak.
I have a couple of small, correctly sized wires, but I can reach into the smooth bore and clean out the small air bleed holes.
Once the carburetor is in my hand it takes no more than 4 minutes to fully clean it out and have it ready to put back on.
These Hondas are pretty simple so it's only about a minute and a half to two minutes to take it off and put it back on so again I'm right back at about the 8 or 9 minute mark.
I know it's not really a race and as I said earlier people who only have one to do have plenty of time they can take on it but I just don't see any reason to make it take longer than needed or to have to soak something overnight or days etc or even 20 or 30 minutes or to buy a device that isn't really necessary to get the desired goal.
I'll be doing one of those Hondas a little bit later today. Lol
Of course I'll also be doing a Tecumseh on a snowblower too.
#35
T
TobyU
They only have like a minor, major, and complete kit.
You're almost better off to buy an aftermarket carburetor online because you can get those cheaper and they usually work just fine however don't assume you can take the parts and interchange them because sometimes the design is completely different.
It is a shame there's no real good aftermarket sources for these kohlers and there may never be..
Another problem is when they just can't get it right like on the tecumsehs.
I don't think I've seen an aftermarket bowel gasket or needle valve that was right yet!
The needle valves will work even though they're too short because you can adjust the float but most of the time the top bowl gasket is too thin that you can't even get them to seal so it's unusable.
I can get plenty of different brakes ones that work just fine and I can get the Hauyi rubber ones easily and cheaply and sometimes even some Honda paper ones but those are kind of hard to find too that aren't Honda brand and they always cost more.
T
TobyU
Unfortunately, these Kohler carb parts are overpriced and they don't sell just the two gaskets you need etc like Tecumseh does or individually like Briggs does.Thanks. Hard to say if the cheaper kits will fit the carb I have despite the number not matching exactly. It is kind of unique, from what I have read.
But for a few bucks probably worth a try.
They only have like a minor, major, and complete kit.
You're almost better off to buy an aftermarket carburetor online because you can get those cheaper and they usually work just fine however don't assume you can take the parts and interchange them because sometimes the design is completely different.
It is a shame there's no real good aftermarket sources for these kohlers and there may never be..
Another problem is when they just can't get it right like on the tecumsehs.
I don't think I've seen an aftermarket bowel gasket or needle valve that was right yet!
The needle valves will work even though they're too short because you can adjust the float but most of the time the top bowl gasket is too thin that you can't even get them to seal so it's unusable.
I can get plenty of different brakes ones that work just fine and I can get the Hauyi rubber ones easily and cheaply and sometimes even some Honda paper ones but those are kind of hard to find too that aren't Honda brand and they always cost more.
#36
StarTech
StarTech
I haven't had a can dip or spray carburetor in my since 2014. Matter of fact I gave away my Berryman's but 2014. All I use is soap and water in an ultra sonic cleaner. I primary use now Dawn Platinum. Now are few badly corroded carburetors that I use Sulfuric Acid to clean the corrosion but are few in between.
#37
J
joea99
Looks like those are for the "walbro" carb, I seem to have the other one. Don't recall name, but starts with an "n" I think.
part number is 12-757-27-s
J
joea99
Official Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts | Sears PartsDirect
Kohler CV461-26504 lawn & garden engine parts - manufacturer-approved parts for a proper fit every time! We also have installation guides, diagrams and manuals to help you along the way!Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
Kohler 12 853 68-S Kit, Carburetor W/Gasket
Looks like those are for the "walbro" carb, I seem to have the other one. Don't recall name, but starts with an "n" I think.
part number is 12-757-27-s
#38
T
TobyU
And for those badly corroded ones, lol... Sulfuric acid instead of a can of carb spray or Barrymans....
That's a really big straining a gnat and swallowing a camel situation.
In that situation of cleaning that carburetor, carb cleaner is far safer to use than sulfuric acid.
T
TobyU
I can't possibly imagine why you would choose to go this way!I haven't had a can dip or spray carburetor in my since 2014. Matter of fact I gave away my Berryman's but 2014. All I use is soap and water in an ultra sonic cleaner. I primary use now Dawn Platinum. Now are few badly corroded carburetors that I use Sulfuric Acid to clean the corrosion but are few in between.
And for those badly corroded ones, lol... Sulfuric acid instead of a can of carb spray or Barrymans....
That's a really big straining a gnat and swallowing a camel situation.
In that situation of cleaning that carburetor, carb cleaner is far safer to use than sulfuric acid.
#39
T
TobyU
T
TobyU
Nikki Is the other common one.Looks like those are for the "walbro" carb, I seem to have the other one. Don't recall name, but starts with an "n" I think.
part number is 12-757-27-s
#40
J
joea99
J
joea99
I managed to clean up the OEM carb and freed up the solenoid, but, after getting it to start. I let it sit for a week, due to weather.
Then, it would only start on starter fluid.
Found the solenoid was not working. Again. It was stuck. Gummed up. Got it freed up again and ready to try again.
I should note that when removing the bowl this last time, the gas was "dirty", had a brownish tint. This was after fresh gas to dry tank, new hoses, and a new filter. Also added a shutoff valve after pulling the solenoid and bowl. Just to make life easier later. All Amazon and Ebay bargains. The gas in the filter does appear a bit darker that I think it should be.
Opening the valve with the carb bowl off, there is a about a drop every second or half second and the gas that accumulates in the catch can is definitely brownish. The gas in the tank appears to be fine.
Any known issues with (likely) asian hose, etc, (all marked as if "real") breaking down and plugging things up? Worth going to napa, etc to get real gas hose.
Then, it would only start on starter fluid.
Found the solenoid was not working. Again. It was stuck. Gummed up. Got it freed up again and ready to try again.
I should note that when removing the bowl this last time, the gas was "dirty", had a brownish tint. This was after fresh gas to dry tank, new hoses, and a new filter. Also added a shutoff valve after pulling the solenoid and bowl. Just to make life easier later. All Amazon and Ebay bargains. The gas in the filter does appear a bit darker that I think it should be.
Opening the valve with the carb bowl off, there is a about a drop every second or half second and the gas that accumulates in the catch can is definitely brownish. The gas in the tank appears to be fine.
Any known issues with (likely) asian hose, etc, (all marked as if "real") breaking down and plugging things up? Worth going to napa, etc to get real gas hose.
#41
kbowley
kbowley
I have been in this business for 16 years. I have never had an engine run properly with a Chinese junk carburetor. All the reviews are BS. If the aftermarket came with a solenoid, you could try that but with the main jet from the junk carb, that was likely causing the surging so it may not work but it's worth a try. Alternatively, you could spray the original solenoid well with carb cleaner after soaking the solenoid overnight with a solvent such as brake cleaner or Liquid Wrench. After soaking, blow out the solenoid well and blast some carb cleaner in it until it sprays back clear. Remove the fuel line from the carburetor and turn it on, if it still flows slowly, get some 1/4" small engine fuel line and a fuel filter from Napa, With the new emission regs requiring low permeation lines, it’s 75 cents a foot or so. Sounds like the fuel inlet, tank outlet, the filter is clogged, or the line is junk. After replacing/cleaning the system and lines so it flows well, hook the line back up to the carb and check flow, it should run out steadily through the needle valve as well as clear. The Kohler Command is as bulletproof as they come if maintained, fix it right the first time and get rid of the headaches. Just get the OEM carb and be done. Guaranteed fix.
#42
T
TobyU
I have seen plenty of these cheap Chinese carburetors since then that ran just perfectly.
I have seen a lot of problems with the small cube carburetors for string trimmers and blowers etc where they don't even drill the passages right and when they have a high and low speed adjustment on them you can take the low one out and hold it in your hand or turn it all the way in until it seeds and it makes no difference whatsoever so these are mostly junk.
I never believe in replacing a carburetor unless you absolutely have to like because someone took it off and lost it!
Even if you replace it with an oem carburetor, it is likely that the new carburetor you're putting on is nowhere near as good of quality as the old one was when it was new.
Most of the time and I mean like 98 plus percent of the time, carburetors don't wear out. They simply get gummed up or clogged.
I always recommend keeping the carburetor that's on the machine and simply fixing the problem.
But I did want to point out that I have bought a number of eBay and Amazon carburetors that work just flawlessly after I installed them.
A very happy day for me was when a customer brought me a John Deere sb14 or something like that with a Kawasaki on it with no carburetor because he had moved and the shop did not include it when he picked up the mower.
This was a number of years ago and at that current time the cheapest Kawasaki carburetor online was $138 from Amazon maybe that was 158 but it was high.
It had been this way for a number of years. Even used ones on eBay we're going for 85 and 95 bucks but that wasn't really worth the risk because if one person makes one hole just slightly too big you'll never really be able to fix it.
To my happiness and much surprise, I found some cheap aftermarket ones for $36.
I ordered it and installed it and it literally started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
That has been 5 years ago and in fact I just talked to that gentleman today.
Well, he texted me yes, on Easter Sunday because I had that mower in here last year when he had a blade strike and luckily he didn't damage things enough to put the mower out of commission or the engine.
He said it had been in storage all winter long and he just today tried to start it and couldn't get it to fire up.
I ran him through the basic procedure of priming his fuel system a little bit with some spray carb cleaner or just a tablespoon of gas after he removed the air filter and within 15 minutes he texted me back saying he got it running.
I have no doubt that this aftermarket carburetor isn't quite as good or as durable as the original Kawasaki but I've only seen such a few numbers of carburetors actually wear out that I could hold them all in one hand so that number is like maybe three or four max.
These were all on engines well over 15 years old that were used more often than once a week to cut the grass and they all had excessive play and the throttle shaft so it was doing far more than just leaking air around it but the entire throttle shaft was rocking excessively on the top because the hole was either no longer round or was much bigger then it was supposed to be.
So technically, these carburetors wore out.
I'm sure I could have fixed them if it had been a necessity with drilling it out and pressing a bushing in but there was no point because these were Briggs & Stratton carbs on a push mower and a replacement isn't that expensive even for OEM but I did need to point out that while your experience may be your accurate experience, it is not indicative of the entire market of cheap Chinese carburetors online.
In fact, Huayi is one of the most common brand of carburetors that comes from the factory on Chinese built engines including most snow blowers today and for almost 10 years.
Huayi is made in China and they are a very good quality brand of carburetor.
Some of the replacement carburetors for them are not nearly as good as they are but they are all made in China and sold on eBay and Amazon etc so you simply can't use the fact that they are cheap Chinese or eBay and Amazon carburetors to determine if they will be any good or not.
T
TobyU
I have been working on these engines a good bit longer than 16 years but started doing it professionally with high volumes of numbers in 2011.I have been in this business for 16 years. I have never had an engine run properly with a Chinese junk carburetor. All the reviews are BS. If the aftermarket came with a solenoid, you could try that but with the main jet from the junk carb, that was likely causing the surging so it may not work but it's worth a try. Alternatively, you could spray the original solenoid well with carb cleaner after soaking the solenoid overnight with a solvent such as brake cleaner or Liquid Wrench. After soaking, blow out the solenoid well and blast some carb cleaner in it until it sprays back clear. Remove the fuel line from the carburetor and turn it on, if it still flows slowly, get some 1/4" small engine fuel line and a fuel filter from Napa, With the new emission regs requiring low permeation lines, it’s 75 cents a foot or so. Sounds like the fuel inlet, tank outlet, the filter is clogged, or the line is junk. After replacing/cleaning the system and lines so it flows well, hook the line back up to the carb and check flow, it should run out steadily through the needle valve as well as clear. The Kohler Command is as bulletproof as they come if maintained, fix it right the first time and get rid of the headaches. Just get the OEM carb and be done. Guaranteed fix.
I have seen plenty of these cheap Chinese carburetors since then that ran just perfectly.
I have seen a lot of problems with the small cube carburetors for string trimmers and blowers etc where they don't even drill the passages right and when they have a high and low speed adjustment on them you can take the low one out and hold it in your hand or turn it all the way in until it seeds and it makes no difference whatsoever so these are mostly junk.
I never believe in replacing a carburetor unless you absolutely have to like because someone took it off and lost it!
Even if you replace it with an oem carburetor, it is likely that the new carburetor you're putting on is nowhere near as good of quality as the old one was when it was new.
Most of the time and I mean like 98 plus percent of the time, carburetors don't wear out. They simply get gummed up or clogged.
I always recommend keeping the carburetor that's on the machine and simply fixing the problem.
But I did want to point out that I have bought a number of eBay and Amazon carburetors that work just flawlessly after I installed them.
A very happy day for me was when a customer brought me a John Deere sb14 or something like that with a Kawasaki on it with no carburetor because he had moved and the shop did not include it when he picked up the mower.
This was a number of years ago and at that current time the cheapest Kawasaki carburetor online was $138 from Amazon maybe that was 158 but it was high.
It had been this way for a number of years. Even used ones on eBay we're going for 85 and 95 bucks but that wasn't really worth the risk because if one person makes one hole just slightly too big you'll never really be able to fix it.
To my happiness and much surprise, I found some cheap aftermarket ones for $36.
I ordered it and installed it and it literally started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
That has been 5 years ago and in fact I just talked to that gentleman today.
Well, he texted me yes, on Easter Sunday because I had that mower in here last year when he had a blade strike and luckily he didn't damage things enough to put the mower out of commission or the engine.
He said it had been in storage all winter long and he just today tried to start it and couldn't get it to fire up.
I ran him through the basic procedure of priming his fuel system a little bit with some spray carb cleaner or just a tablespoon of gas after he removed the air filter and within 15 minutes he texted me back saying he got it running.
I have no doubt that this aftermarket carburetor isn't quite as good or as durable as the original Kawasaki but I've only seen such a few numbers of carburetors actually wear out that I could hold them all in one hand so that number is like maybe three or four max.
These were all on engines well over 15 years old that were used more often than once a week to cut the grass and they all had excessive play and the throttle shaft so it was doing far more than just leaking air around it but the entire throttle shaft was rocking excessively on the top because the hole was either no longer round or was much bigger then it was supposed to be.
So technically, these carburetors wore out.
I'm sure I could have fixed them if it had been a necessity with drilling it out and pressing a bushing in but there was no point because these were Briggs & Stratton carbs on a push mower and a replacement isn't that expensive even for OEM but I did need to point out that while your experience may be your accurate experience, it is not indicative of the entire market of cheap Chinese carburetors online.
In fact, Huayi is one of the most common brand of carburetors that comes from the factory on Chinese built engines including most snow blowers today and for almost 10 years.
Huayi is made in China and they are a very good quality brand of carburetor.
Some of the replacement carburetors for them are not nearly as good as they are but they are all made in China and sold on eBay and Amazon etc so you simply can't use the fact that they are cheap Chinese or eBay and Amazon carburetors to determine if they will be any good or not.
#43
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
On some of the old flat heads I have needed to ream out the throttle butterfly shaft hole because it it oval and leaking air .
I got a pile of small plastic bushes in a grab bag of stuff at a swap meet some time ago and wadda know one of them is a perfect fit for the shaft .
I never buy carbs from aAmazon or ebay, just had way too many turn up that were defective.
OTOH I do buy a lot from Made In China . com and Alibaba ( not ali express )
Both of these platforms hold your payment in escrow till either 90 days after they are delivered or you reply back that they were good .
And a couple of times I had some arrive damaged in transit so they were replaced and I was refunded to compensate me for my troubles so you can not ague about that.
Down side is searching is quite difficult and most have a MOQ but 10 carbs for the price of 3 is good value in any case and if it is one I am not likely to need again the I keep 2 & put the rest on evilpay with the description "these are not factory rejects they actually work " and they all go in a day or two .
Cube carbs generally come from Farmer Tech they are a tad dearer but I can order a singe carb and they are always plug & play
I got a pile of small plastic bushes in a grab bag of stuff at a swap meet some time ago and wadda know one of them is a perfect fit for the shaft .
I never buy carbs from aAmazon or ebay, just had way too many turn up that were defective.
OTOH I do buy a lot from Made In China . com and Alibaba ( not ali express )
Both of these platforms hold your payment in escrow till either 90 days after they are delivered or you reply back that they were good .
And a couple of times I had some arrive damaged in transit so they were replaced and I was refunded to compensate me for my troubles so you can not ague about that.
Down side is searching is quite difficult and most have a MOQ but 10 carbs for the price of 3 is good value in any case and if it is one I am not likely to need again the I keep 2 & put the rest on evilpay with the description "these are not factory rejects they actually work " and they all go in a day or two .
Cube carbs generally come from Farmer Tech they are a tad dearer but I can order a singe carb and they are always plug & play
#44
kbowley
kbowley
I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.I have been working on these engines a good bit longer than 16 years but started doing it professionally with high volumes of numbers in 2011.
I have seen plenty of these cheap Chinese carburetors since then that ran just perfectly.
I have seen a lot of problems with the small cube carburetors for string trimmers and blowers etc where they don't even drill the passages right and when they have a high and low speed adjustment on them you can take the low one out and hold it in your hand or turn it all the way in until it seeds and it makes no difference whatsoever so these are mostly junk.
I never believe in replacing a carburetor unless you absolutely have to like because someone took it off and lost it!
Even if you replace it with an oem carburetor, it is likely that the new carburetor you're putting on is nowhere near as good of quality as the old one was when it was new.
Most of the time and I mean like 98 plus percent of the time, carburetors don't wear out. They simply get gummed up or clogged.
I always recommend keeping the carburetor that's on the machine and simply fixing the problem.
But I did want to point out that I have bought a number of eBay and Amazon carburetors that work just flawlessly after I installed them.
A very happy day for me was when a customer brought me a John Deere sb14 or something like that with a Kawasaki on it with no carburetor because he had moved and the shop did not include it when he picked up the mower.
This was a number of years ago and at that current time the cheapest Kawasaki carburetor online was $138 from Amazon maybe that was 158 but it was high.
It had been this way for a number of years. Even used ones on eBay we're going for 85 and 95 bucks but that wasn't really worth the risk because if one person makes one hole just slightly too big you'll never really be able to fix it.
To my happiness and much surprise, I found some cheap aftermarket ones for $36.
I ordered it and installed it and it literally started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
That has been 5 years ago and in fact I just talked to that gentleman today.
Well, he texted me yes, on Easter Sunday because I had that mower in here last year when he had a blade strike and luckily he didn't damage things enough to put the mower out of commission or the engine.
He said it had been in storage all winter long and he just today tried to start it and couldn't get it to fire up.
I ran him through the basic procedure of priming his fuel system a little bit with some spray carb cleaner or just a tablespoon of gas after he removed the air filter and within 15 minutes he texted me back saying he got it running.
I have no doubt that this aftermarket carburetor isn't quite as good or as durable as the original Kawasaki but I've only seen such a few numbers of carburetors actually wear out that I could hold them all in one hand so that number is like maybe three or four max.
These were all on engines well over 15 years old that were used more often than once a week to cut the grass and they all had excessive play and the throttle shaft so it was doing far more than just leaking air around it but the entire throttle shaft was rocking excessively on the top because the hole was either no longer round or was much bigger then it was supposed to be.
So technically, these carburetors wore out.
I'm sure I could have fixed them if it had been a necessity with drilling it out and pressing a bushing in but there was no point because these were Briggs & Stratton carbs on a push mower and a replacement isn't that expensive even for OEM but I did need to point out that while your experience may be your accurate experience, it is not indicative of the entire market of cheap Chinese carburetors online.
In fact, Huayi is one of the most common brand of carburetors that comes from the factory on Chinese built engines including most snow blowers today and for almost 10 years.
Huayi is made in China and they are a very good quality brand of carburetor.
Some of the replacement carburetors for them are not nearly as good as they are but they are all made in China and sold on eBay and Amazon etc so you simply can't use the fact that they are cheap Chinese or eBay and Amazon carburetors to determine if they will be any good or not.
#45
T
TobyU
I would prefer a shop that gives customers options instead of doing it one way, their way and charging top dollar for it.
But I guess everybody does what they want to do.
You're going to have to clarify though what caught your attention so much in my post and how you fix them right when you seem to infer that I don't.
If you are saying that putting cheap Chinese carburetors or other aftermarkets on a machine is not the right way, you didn't really pay attention to all of my post.
My post was mainly to say I have had good luck with the cheap carburetors on everything larger than the small cube ones but I DID NOT say or infer I made a habit of replacing them on customers machines.
The one specific one I mentioned on the John Deere is the only carb I can actually remember replacing in many years with an aftermarket and one of only two or three I have replaced it all even with OEM in well over a decade.
NOW if you somehow think that keeping the original carburetor on the machine and cleaning and repairing that one so it runs properly is not correct and that putting a new OEM carburetor on would be the "right" then we're going to have to disagree there.
You will notice that I specifically said
"I always recommend keeping the original carburetor on the machine and simply repairing it"
T
TobyU
Lol.. "right" is very subjective.I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.
I would prefer a shop that gives customers options instead of doing it one way, their way and charging top dollar for it.
But I guess everybody does what they want to do.
You're going to have to clarify though what caught your attention so much in my post and how you fix them right when you seem to infer that I don't.
If you are saying that putting cheap Chinese carburetors or other aftermarkets on a machine is not the right way, you didn't really pay attention to all of my post.
My post was mainly to say I have had good luck with the cheap carburetors on everything larger than the small cube ones but I DID NOT say or infer I made a habit of replacing them on customers machines.
The one specific one I mentioned on the John Deere is the only carb I can actually remember replacing in many years with an aftermarket and one of only two or three I have replaced it all even with OEM in well over a decade.
NOW if you somehow think that keeping the original carburetor on the machine and cleaning and repairing that one so it runs properly is not correct and that putting a new OEM carburetor on would be the "right" then we're going to have to disagree there.
You will notice that I specifically said
"I always recommend keeping the original carburetor on the machine and simply repairing it"
#46
T
TobyU
Never is a very specific word.
I get it, you were offended that I somehow disagreed with what you said even though I wasn't being critical of you or your repairs in any way.
I simply pointed out that I have had fine results with a number of those cheap carburetors on walk behind mowers and riders inferring that just because you have never had any luck with them, does not mean they are all bad!
Sorry that that pushed your buttons or whatever and then you felt the need to make a negative comment about my repairs or pitying my customers. Lol
I have been nothing but polite and professional in this thread.
You may pity my customers if you choose but they really do seem to love me as I do have by far the highest rated mower repair business in a hundred mile radius and I have the third most reviews by number in the whole area.
I am known for my attention to detail, doing extras above and beyond without charge and for being extremely great value and economical compared to all the other shops often being half price of what another place would charge if you took your mower to them.
I tried to train my customers all the time not to use that evil word "tune-up" because it's a good way for a shop to list all these points of inspection and checking etc to try to justify their $100 plus and normally more like 124 to 148 to get a standard walk behind push or self-propelled mower in for an annual service or general maintenance.
Then we could discuss the fee for a no start when someone brings a lawn mower in that simply won't start and run. Do most shops even do this? Or do they say it needs a tune-up?
Most customers are simply interested in results.
If all they want was to mow their grass and the mower won't start and they want you to make it start they don't really care how you do it as long as it starts and runs properly and continues to do so for the whole season like any other mower would.
I charge under half of what everyone else in my market charges to accomplish this end result and sometimes I even feel bad about that.
But then again I'm a self-proclaimed human oddity and it's not all about the money for me.
T
TobyU
Oh, I get it now. You are the one that said in your 16 years you have "never" had an engine run properly with a cheap Chinese junk carburetor.I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.
Never is a very specific word.
I get it, you were offended that I somehow disagreed with what you said even though I wasn't being critical of you or your repairs in any way.
I simply pointed out that I have had fine results with a number of those cheap carburetors on walk behind mowers and riders inferring that just because you have never had any luck with them, does not mean they are all bad!
Sorry that that pushed your buttons or whatever and then you felt the need to make a negative comment about my repairs or pitying my customers. Lol
I have been nothing but polite and professional in this thread.
You may pity my customers if you choose but they really do seem to love me as I do have by far the highest rated mower repair business in a hundred mile radius and I have the third most reviews by number in the whole area.
I am known for my attention to detail, doing extras above and beyond without charge and for being extremely great value and economical compared to all the other shops often being half price of what another place would charge if you took your mower to them.
I tried to train my customers all the time not to use that evil word "tune-up" because it's a good way for a shop to list all these points of inspection and checking etc to try to justify their $100 plus and normally more like 124 to 148 to get a standard walk behind push or self-propelled mower in for an annual service or general maintenance.
Then we could discuss the fee for a no start when someone brings a lawn mower in that simply won't start and run. Do most shops even do this? Or do they say it needs a tune-up?
Most customers are simply interested in results.
If all they want was to mow their grass and the mower won't start and they want you to make it start they don't really care how you do it as long as it starts and runs properly and continues to do so for the whole season like any other mower would.
I charge under half of what everyone else in my market charges to accomplish this end result and sometimes I even feel bad about that.
But then again I'm a self-proclaimed human oddity and it's not all about the money for me.
#47
kbowley
Of course, I always try to thoroughly clean the original with a strong solvent (Purple Power and Berryman's B-12) in an ultrasonic machine as well as manually when it comes out. I am 97% successful in doing so, however, sometimes you get one that's been sitting for years with bad fuel and completely corroded and not repairable. When it comes to that, I use an OEM carb. I can honestly say that I have never used a cheap knockoff that runs properly throughout the rpm range, some have run "good enough" for my own use, but not for a customer's machine. Customers want them fixed right when they hand over the money and I have never had anyone complain about the cost when it runs as new. Respectfully, Kevin.
kbowley
Lol.. "right" is very subjective.
I would prefer a shop that gives customers options instead of doing it one way, their way and charging top dollar for it.
But I guess everybody does what they want to do.
You're going to have to clarify though what caught your attention so much in my post and how you fix them right when you seem to infer that I don't.
If you are saying that putting cheap Chinese carburetors or other aftermarkets on a machine is not the right way, you didn't really pay attention to all of my post.
My post was mainly to say I have had good luck with the cheap carburetors on everything larger than the small cube ones but I DID NOT say or infer I made a habit of replacing them on customers machines.
The one specific one I mentioned on the John Deere is the only carb I can actually remember replacing in many years with an aftermarket and one of only two or three I have replaced it all even with OEM in well over a decade.
NOW if you somehow think that keeping the original carburetor on the machine and cleaning and repairing that one so it runs properly is not correct and that putting a new OEM carburetor on would be the "right" then we're going to have to disagree there.
You will notice that I specifically said
"I always recommend keeping the original carburetor on the machine and simply repairing it"
Of course, I always try to thoroughly clean the original with a strong solvent (Purple Power and Berryman's B-12) in an ultrasonic machine as well as manually when it comes out. I am 97% successful in doing so, however, sometimes you get one that's been sitting for years with bad fuel and completely corroded and not repairable. When it comes to that, I use an OEM carb. I can honestly say that I have never used a cheap knockoff that runs properly throughout the rpm range, some have run "good enough" for my own use, but not for a customer's machine. Customers want them fixed right when they hand over the money and I have never had anyone complain about the cost when it runs as new. Respectfully, Kevin.
#48
T
TobyU
I was quite impressed with the one I put on the Kawasaki engine on the John Deere walk behind mower.
I was skeptical at first and I even told the customer the situation because they had just become available and explain to him that the actual Kawasakis were $138-158 and that we couldn't risk a used one at $95 plus because you never know what someone had done to it before you got it.
I explained that the $36 was a Gamble that might just be wasting our time because we might have to send it back or possibly even eat the cost but that we then might have to go with the OEM carburetor.
He said he was certainly willing to give it a try and wasn't worried about the $36 so I ordered one and was pleasantly surprised when it started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
I have seen this mower twice since then so it's been between 2 and 3 years now that it's been on there and still running just fine.
But as I said, only a small handful of these have I even had to replace because I just don't replace that many carburetors.
You are correct that occasionally you will come across one that is just so old and cruddy or rusty inside that you can't even get them disassembled to attempt to clean so those are just the loss.
I've only had two or three of those though in the past 15 or so years and I certainly done thousands of these machines.
I have had to cannibalize some carbs for parts and sometimes even the new cheapies that I end up with just for some of their parts.
I know a lot of people love ultrasonic cleaners and some people like lemon juice or simple Green etc but I don't own a ultrasonic cleaner and never plan on having one.
I've seen them work and use them but I just see no need to own one myself because I just don't have a desire to use one.
As you said, it's all about getting them running properly because that's what the customer expects and I've always been able to do that without an ultrasonic cleaner...
In fact... Hold on and you might want to sit down....lol.. many, many times even the majority, I don't even remove the carburetor from the machine!
--GASP- I KNOW.... And I've even had some people try to chastise me for this and try to tell me I'm doing it the wrong way or not doing right by my customers etc. Lol
I literally can't laugh hard enough at this.
Now, some of these people are probably the same people who have taken a carburetor off of a machine and thoroughly cleaned it or "rebuilt" it
And then stuck it back on to that same old fuel line without even thoroughly inspecting it etc.
Anyone who would dare criticize my cleaning out a carburetor and making a machine run perfectly without removing it from the machine better first be replacing the entire fuel line (on a push mower you know all 8 to 9 in of it) and they also better be thoroughly flushing out the fuel tank and more than likely removing it from the machine and tilting it all which directions and shaking it around etc.
BEFORE they ever consider criticizing my methods of getting a machine up and running properly.
All the cleaning in the world or even replacing a carburetor isn't going to have the desired long-term results if the fuel line has degraded and pieces are flaking off and self clogging the system.
Yes, I know I'm off on a slight tangent but the point is this really rarely happens.
Some people, especially a lot of shops but even just techs or people with some experience working on their own stuff go way overboard and yes, I consider replacing 8 in of fuel line that isn't bad going way overboard....lol..
It may sound funny or harsh but I'm high volume here or at least I feel the need to be very efficient when I do actually work on things so a piece of fuel line that looks decent and is supple enough that I can squeeze it with my fingers isn't getting replaced.
I'll put my methods and any comebacks and my record and reputation up against absolutely anyone's.
BTW... How many repairs or items do you think the average lawn mower shop repairs each year or each season or each month for the month they actually have business?
You kind of have to take into account that in many places, there is no business for several months out of the year.
A friend of mine likes to watch the Chickanik girl on YouTube and I've watched a grand total of about 72 seconds of one of her videos.
Can't say I'm against her but I can't stand YouTube videos...
He told me one time the numbers she quoted as doing on an annual basis in her shop so can you either share the numbers you have experienced if you do this as a professional shop or if it's just a smaller friends and family thing whatever please specify that and how many items do you think the average shop does or the average tech at a shop and then we can figure out how many text the average shop has.
I like numbers....
T
TobyU
Yes, starting easily and running properly is what the customer is looking for but I have used at least a few but let's just say a handful of these cheap carburetors that did work just fine.Of course, I always try to thoroughly clean the original with a strong solvent (Purple Power and Berryman's B-12) in an ultrasonic machine as well as manually when it comes out. I am 97% successful in doing so, however, sometimes you get one that's been sitting for years with bad fuel and completely corroded and not repairable. When it comes to that, I use an OEM carb. I can honestly say that I have never used a cheap knockoff that runs properly throughout the rpm range, some have run "good enough" for my own use, but not for a customer's machine. Customers want them fixed right when they hand over the money and I have never had anyone complain about the cost when it runs as new. Respectfully, Kevin.
I was quite impressed with the one I put on the Kawasaki engine on the John Deere walk behind mower.
I was skeptical at first and I even told the customer the situation because they had just become available and explain to him that the actual Kawasakis were $138-158 and that we couldn't risk a used one at $95 plus because you never know what someone had done to it before you got it.
I explained that the $36 was a Gamble that might just be wasting our time because we might have to send it back or possibly even eat the cost but that we then might have to go with the OEM carburetor.
He said he was certainly willing to give it a try and wasn't worried about the $36 so I ordered one and was pleasantly surprised when it started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
I have seen this mower twice since then so it's been between 2 and 3 years now that it's been on there and still running just fine.
But as I said, only a small handful of these have I even had to replace because I just don't replace that many carburetors.
You are correct that occasionally you will come across one that is just so old and cruddy or rusty inside that you can't even get them disassembled to attempt to clean so those are just the loss.
I've only had two or three of those though in the past 15 or so years and I certainly done thousands of these machines.
I have had to cannibalize some carbs for parts and sometimes even the new cheapies that I end up with just for some of their parts.
I know a lot of people love ultrasonic cleaners and some people like lemon juice or simple Green etc but I don't own a ultrasonic cleaner and never plan on having one.
I've seen them work and use them but I just see no need to own one myself because I just don't have a desire to use one.
As you said, it's all about getting them running properly because that's what the customer expects and I've always been able to do that without an ultrasonic cleaner...
In fact... Hold on and you might want to sit down....lol.. many, many times even the majority, I don't even remove the carburetor from the machine!
--GASP- I KNOW.... And I've even had some people try to chastise me for this and try to tell me I'm doing it the wrong way or not doing right by my customers etc. Lol
I literally can't laugh hard enough at this.
Now, some of these people are probably the same people who have taken a carburetor off of a machine and thoroughly cleaned it or "rebuilt" it
And then stuck it back on to that same old fuel line without even thoroughly inspecting it etc.
Anyone who would dare criticize my cleaning out a carburetor and making a machine run perfectly without removing it from the machine better first be replacing the entire fuel line (on a push mower you know all 8 to 9 in of it) and they also better be thoroughly flushing out the fuel tank and more than likely removing it from the machine and tilting it all which directions and shaking it around etc.
BEFORE they ever consider criticizing my methods of getting a machine up and running properly.
All the cleaning in the world or even replacing a carburetor isn't going to have the desired long-term results if the fuel line has degraded and pieces are flaking off and self clogging the system.
Yes, I know I'm off on a slight tangent but the point is this really rarely happens.
Some people, especially a lot of shops but even just techs or people with some experience working on their own stuff go way overboard and yes, I consider replacing 8 in of fuel line that isn't bad going way overboard....lol..
It may sound funny or harsh but I'm high volume here or at least I feel the need to be very efficient when I do actually work on things so a piece of fuel line that looks decent and is supple enough that I can squeeze it with my fingers isn't getting replaced.
I'll put my methods and any comebacks and my record and reputation up against absolutely anyone's.
BTW... How many repairs or items do you think the average lawn mower shop repairs each year or each season or each month for the month they actually have business?
You kind of have to take into account that in many places, there is no business for several months out of the year.
A friend of mine likes to watch the Chickanik girl on YouTube and I've watched a grand total of about 72 seconds of one of her videos.
Can't say I'm against her but I can't stand YouTube videos...
He told me one time the numbers she quoted as doing on an annual basis in her shop so can you either share the numbers you have experienced if you do this as a professional shop or if it's just a smaller friends and family thing whatever please specify that and how many items do you think the average shop does or the average tech at a shop and then we can figure out how many text the average shop has.
I like numbers....
#49
kbowley
kbowley
I have two employees and we are busy year-round. You can research me here if you wish.Yes, starting easily and running properly is what the customer is looking for but I have used at least a few but let's just say a handful of these cheap carburetors that did work just fine.
I was quite impressed with the one I put on the Kawasaki engine on the John Deere walk behind mower.
I was skeptical at first and I even told the customer the situation because they had just become available and explain to him that the actual Kawasakis were $138-158 and that we couldn't risk a used one at $95 plus because you never know what someone had done to it before you got it.
I explained that the $36 was a Gamble that might just be wasting our time because we might have to send it back or possibly even eat the cost but that we then might have to go with the OEM carburetor.
He said he was certainly willing to give it a try and wasn't worried about the $36 so I ordered one and was pleasantly surprised when it started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
I have seen this mower twice since then so it's been between 2 and 3 years now that it's been on there and still running just fine.
But as I said, only a small handful of these have I even had to replace because I just don't replace that many carburetors.
You are correct that occasionally you will come across one that is just so old and cruddy or rusty inside that you can't even get them disassembled to attempt to clean so those are just the loss.
I've only had two or three of those though in the past 15 or so years and I certainly done thousands of these machines.
I have had to cannibalize some carbs for parts and sometimes even the new cheapies that I end up with just for some of their parts.
I know a lot of people love ultrasonic cleaners and some people like lemon juice or simple Green etc but I don't own a ultrasonic cleaner and never plan on having one.
I've seen them work and use them but I just see no need to own one myself because I just don't have a desire to use one.
As you said, it's all about getting them running properly because that's what the customer expects and I've always been able to do that without an ultrasonic cleaner...
In fact... Hold on and you might want to sit down....lol.. many, many times even the majority, I don't even remove the carburetor from the machine!
--GASP- I KNOW.... And I've even had some people try to chastise me for this and try to tell me I'm doing it the wrong way or not doing right by my customers etc. Lol
I literally can't laugh hard enough at this.
Now, some of these people are probably the same people who have taken a carburetor off of a machine and thoroughly cleaned it or "rebuilt" it
And then stuck it back on to that same old fuel line without even thoroughly inspecting it etc.
Anyone who would dare criticize my cleaning out a carburetor and making a machine run perfectly without removing it from the machine better first be replacing the entire fuel line (on a push mower you know all 8 to 9 in of it) and they also better be thoroughly flushing out the fuel tank and more than likely removing it from the machine and tilting it all which directions and shaking it around etc.
BEFORE they ever consider criticizing my methods of getting a machine up and running properly.
All the cleaning in the world or even replacing a carburetor isn't going to have the desired long-term results if the fuel line has degraded and pieces are flaking off and self clogging the system.
Yes, I know I'm off on a slight tangent but the point is this really rarely happens.
Some people, especially a lot of shops but even just techs or people with some experience working on their own stuff go way overboard and yes, I consider replacing 8 in of fuel line that isn't bad going way overboard....lol..
It may sound funny or harsh but I'm high volume here or at least I feel the need to be very efficient when I do actually work on things so a piece of fuel line that looks decent and is supple enough that I can squeeze it with my fingers isn't getting replaced.
I'll put my methods and any comebacks and my record and reputation up against absolutely anyone's.
BTW... How many repairs or items do you think the average lawn mower shop repairs each year or each season or each month for the month they actually have business?
You kind of have to take into account that in many places, there is no business for several months out of the year.
A friend of mine likes to watch the Chickanik girl on YouTube and I've watched a grand total of about 72 seconds of one of her videos.
Can't say I'm against her but I can't stand YouTube videos...
He told me one time the numbers she quoted as doing on an annual basis in her shop so can you either share the numbers you have experienced if you do this as a professional shop or if it's just a smaller friends and family thing whatever please specify that and how many items do you think the average shop does or the average tech at a shop and then we can figure out how many text the average shop has.
I like numbers....
Attachments
#50
T
TobyU
It's obvious you have a typical average repair shop that's open to the public and not just some guy who happens to work on things 3 or 4 days a week in a spare time like many do.
There's nothing wrong with either way of doing it or even other ways I was just trying to gauge what you consider medium or high volume levels are.
T
TobyU
Okay but you still didn't answer my question. I was just trying to get your opinion on how many items a year the average mower repair shop does.I have two employees and we are busy year-round. You can research me here if you wish.
It's obvious you have a typical average repair shop that's open to the public and not just some guy who happens to work on things 3 or 4 days a week in a spare time like many do.
There's nothing wrong with either way of doing it or even other ways I was just trying to gauge what you consider medium or high volume levels are.
#51
T
TobyU
I think you said you've been doing the 16 years. I opened my shop in April of 2011 and currently have 204 reviews.
I have no employees as I am a one man show.
Your reviews read a lot like mine. Those people say I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
More than one has called me the lawn mower whisperer.
They're just happy because I do good work and I'm super cheap compared to everyone else.
Lol
T
TobyU
Looks like you have a nice facility.I have two employees and we are busy year-round. You can research me here if you wish.
I think you said you've been doing the 16 years. I opened my shop in April of 2011 and currently have 204 reviews.
I have no employees as I am a one man show.
Your reviews read a lot like mine. Those people say I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
More than one has called me the lawn mower whisperer.
They're just happy because I do good work and I'm super cheap compared to everyone else.
Lol
#52
Tiger Small Engine
Chickanik on YouTube claims they used to work on over 2000 pieces of equipment each year (maybe 4 employees, guessing). That is 500/employee and sounds high to me. How many pieces of equipment handheld versus larger equipment, can an efficient small engine mechanic service and repair per year?
TobyU-Everyone does things differently in life. Perhaps spend less time comparing and more helping. If you are as good as you say you are, you are leaving money on the table, “being so much cheaper than the competition.” Knowledge, experience and the right tools should be fairly compensated.
Tiger Small Engine
Looks like you have a nice facility.
I think you said you've been doing the 16 years. I opened my shop in April of 2011 and currently have 204 reviews.
I have no employees as I am a one man show.
Your reviews read a lot like mine. Those people say I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
More than one has called me the lawn mower whisperer.
They're just happy because I do good work and I'm super cheap compared to everyone else.
Lol
Chickanik on YouTube claims they used to work on over 2000 pieces of equipment each year (maybe 4 employees, guessing). That is 500/employee and sounds high to me. How many pieces of equipment handheld versus larger equipment, can an efficient small engine mechanic service and repair per year?
TobyU-Everyone does things differently in life. Perhaps spend less time comparing and more helping. If you are as good as you say you are, you are leaving money on the table, “being so much cheaper than the competition.” Knowledge, experience and the right tools should be fairly compensated.
#53
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I do around 300 jobs a year when the health allows it
1 person sole trader & independent
And that is individual jobs , not uncommon for some one to turn up with 3 or more items
This excludes blade sharpening ( both mower & saws )
I could do more if I wanted to but headache customers get told to go away and I have stopped working on a lot of brands .
Because I work through the christmas holiday break I get a lot of builders & bricklayers who will drop off a truck load of gear & pick it up in 2 weeks when they go back to work
I now have every mowing contractor in the surrounding district because I do overnight servicing ( not repairs ) so they drop off on their way home & I leave them out with a gate key so they can pick up at whatever ungodly hour they go past in the morning .
This also means I need to have all the common parts for all their machines in stock all the time .
And they pay a premium price for this service
1 person sole trader & independent
And that is individual jobs , not uncommon for some one to turn up with 3 or more items
This excludes blade sharpening ( both mower & saws )
I could do more if I wanted to but headache customers get told to go away and I have stopped working on a lot of brands .
Because I work through the christmas holiday break I get a lot of builders & bricklayers who will drop off a truck load of gear & pick it up in 2 weeks when they go back to work
I now have every mowing contractor in the surrounding district because I do overnight servicing ( not repairs ) so they drop off on their way home & I leave them out with a gate key so they can pick up at whatever ungodly hour they go past in the morning .
This also means I need to have all the common parts for all their machines in stock all the time .
And they pay a premium price for this service