Export thread

First of all, can someone tell me why B&S is no longer installing recoil starters on lawnmowers? At least on 17.5 HP and up models. This is very handy when you discover that the battery has bit the dust after the winter and you really need to mow your yard that particular day before going back to work the following day or you're like me and you're too cheap (or frustrated) to buy a new battery every other year.

When did Briggs and Stratton went from using nuts to bolts on the crankshaft/flywheel?

Reason I ask is I have this nutty idea to made a rope starter for one of my lawnmowers. Most likely my MTD 17.5 B&S engine. I also have a 21 hp B&S Husqvarna. I'd like to do both.

I have a 14hp B&S circa 2000 that threw a rod through the block. It looks like the rod bearing nuts were not properly torqued or had Locktite from the factory and vibrated loose which sent the rod through the block. The engine was less than 5 years old.

This engine is on a shelf in my storage building and I'm going to have to move some stuff to get to it and pull the cooling shroud off to find out.

The plan is to:

1) Drill a hole through the side of a socket and the crankshaft bolt for a roll pin or cotter pin.
2) Up through the socket will be a 1/2" carriage bolt threads facing upwards. Maybe a few flat washers to take up any slack in the depth of the socket.
3) Use a pulley that uses a square keystock to keep from spinning
4) Grind a slot in the end of the carriage bolt for the keystock.
5) Cut a groove at an angle for the knot on the end of a rope.

This winter I pulled my batteries off my mowers and hooked them to trickle chargers. Hoping I can get more than 1 to 2 years out of these horribly cheap lawnmower batteries everybody sells.

As long as I have the strength and ability to pull start a lawnmower engine, I'd just soon do that as to keep spending money on these junk batteries.

I think my Interstate battery made it one season. The Husky battery from Lowes (I think) made it 2 years before it bit the dust.

The battery on that same Snapper went bad after a year and I just pulled started it for 10 years until I sold it.

Just go buy a battery dam why try to reinvent the wheel. Some of these motors won't even run without the battery. When you store your mower for the winter disconnect a battery cable. I have a 3 yr old Walmart battery on 1 of my ztr and still works everyday.

RDA.Lawns said:

Just go buy a battery dam why try to reinvent the wheel. Some of these motors won't even run without the battery. When you store your mower for the winter disconnect a battery cable. I have a 3 yr old Walmart battery on 1 of my ztr and still works everyday.

Click to expand...

Ditto I have 2 Walmart batteries both over 2+ years and fire right up ... sure you arent leaving the key switch on ..?? or a wire shorting out somewhere
or ... you could use a battery disconnect switch...

The rectifier could be bad as well.

When the battery goes out on your truck you going to make a hand crank? This is a dumb thread!!!!

No I'm not leaving the key on. The battery starts going bad over a period of time. One battery got to where it wouldn't hold a charge for more than three weeks in July. I pushed it, hoping it would get me by until next spring. Then by September it got to where it wouldn't hold a charge for more than a week so I'd have to drag out a 100 foot extension cord and jump start it off my battery charger.

I checked the voltage on my Craftsman but not my Troy Bilt with the engine was running. It never tested above 13 volts. So I don't think the charging system is overcharging the battery causing it them to crap out.

I pulled that particular battery off my trickle charger that had been hooked up since November and it wouldn't turn the engine over. Maybe it was going bad before last fall. I can't remember which battery came off which mower.

I'm always having to play musical batteries between mowers since neither has a recoil starter. I have to swap batteries because usually one of them is bad. Having a recoil starter would be easier than swapping batteries between mowers. I only use my Troy Bilt as a backup so I really hate to buy a new battery for it.

One other possibility. I have a bumpy yard. I've heard some batteries don't like to be "bounced around". I don't think Optima makes a a battery for lawnmowers. Maybe I could use one from a motorcycle?

But I think it all comes to down to cheaply made batteries. Instead of solid lead plates, now they use lead coated plastic plates where the lead flakes off.

I think the reason B&S is not putting recoil starters on mowers anymore is because people are too fat and lazy to pull a rope. B&S probably figured out if people had a choice, they would use the electric starter over the recoil. So it's a money saving thing. I'll use whatever is available. So if the engine does not have a recoil starter, I have no choice but to use the electric starter and buy a new battery every other year.

Now they are making self propelled push mowers with electric starters. How weak or lazy does a person have to be they need and electric starter on a 6 hp engine? My father is 73 years old and can pull start a push mower just fine.

If you don't consider my Subaru Baja a real "truck", then no I don't own a truck but I can flip the jack handle around and easily hand crank my Citroen 2CV 600cc 2 cylinder engine if the battery goes flat.

Are your batteries bolted or strapped down or just setting there free to move around? The 2 new mowers I bought this year have AGM batteries on them . 6 years of factory warranty on them

The only mowers that you could use a recoil starter on would be the engines without a fuel shutoff solenoid on the carb, and manual pto engagement. The solenoid would require 12v to operate and the charging system with a regulator would not have output to run either the solenoid or pto clutch, because it requires a minimum voltage to close the trigger for output.

The main reason riders don't have a recoil backup is it cost extra money, and people are looking for the cheapest mower they can buy. And the complain if the mower goes BANG at shutoff. Which requires some way to stop fuel flow through the carb into the engine at shutdown. That could be done with the system they use on generators, it used the residual output from the windings to close the solenoid at shutdown. And we are back to costing extra money, and people are looking for price point items.

RDA.Lawns said:

Are your batteries bolted or strapped down or just setting there free to move around? The 2 new mowers I bought this year have AGM batteries on them . 6 years of factory warranty on them

Click to expand...

I know that my Craftsman did not come with a top strap because I bought it new. I don't know about the Troy bilt. The Troy Bilt has two bars that act as cradles. Is there supposed to be something that goes over the battery to strap it down from bouncing up and down?

ILENGINE said:

The only mowers that you could use a recoil starter on would be the engines without a fuel shutoff solenoid on the carb, and manual pto engagement. The solenoid would require 12v to operate and the charging system with a regulator would not have output to run either the solenoid or pto clutch, because it requires a minimum voltage to close the trigger for output.

The main reason riders don't have a recoil backup is it cost extra money, and people are looking for the cheapest mower they can buy. And the complain if the mower goes BANG at shutoff. Which requires some way to stop fuel flow through the carb into the engine at shutdown. That could be done with the system they use on generators, it used the residual output from the windings to close the solenoid at shutdown. And we are back to costing extra money, and people are looking for price point items.

Click to expand...

I've heard that mowers with power take offs (button/pull switch) to engage the blades require a battery. Both of my mowers have manual levers to engage the blades. The Craftsman has a hydrostatic transmission, I don't know if that matters. The Troy Bilt uses one of those 7 speed forward/reverse transmissions where I have to come to a complete stop to change speeds.

The fuel shut off solenoid on the bottom of the fuel bowel requiring a battery does not make any sense to me. I was thinking the solenoid valve at the base of the fuel bowl got it's power from the magento off the engine and not the battery. Unless they have made a design change in the last 15 years.

Speaking of the valve's purpose:

Reason being, the 14 hp B&S engine that blew up on my Snapper had a solenoid valve on the fuel bowel and so did the replacement 14 hp Kohler engine I put on it. But both engines had recoil starters. I left the old battery on my Snapper but it was totally dead and used the recoil starter for about 10 years.

My father has a Snapper with a 15hp Kohler engine with a solenoid valve that has a recoil starter. All of three of these engines were produced around 2000.

I thought these solenoid valves in the fuel bowl were supposed to replace the tank or in-line manual fuel shutoff valves they used to install on lawnmowers years ago to prevent the head pressure from the fuel tank from over riding the float valve and leaking fuel or filling the crankcase up with fuel when the engine was not running.

I did not know it was an anti-backfire device.

Speaking of batteries. It's not just lawnmower batteries but car batteries. It seems Interstates are the worst. Buying batteries is a crap shoot. I've bought car batteries that didn't last two years, then others that surpassed their two year warranty and are still working after 5 years.

I've dumped the acid out and found flakes of lead that has fallen off the plastic plates.

The fuel solenoid requires a minimum of 9v to operate, and the regulator/rectifier requires 10v to close the internal switch to allow power to reach the battery. Some engines are set up for the regulator to output power without a battery for various operations( wide area mower) so it is doable, which would also power the fuel solenoid.

You can get some mowers to run without a battery, but if you momentarily get the voltage to drop below that magic number, say kicking in the pto, the charge system will open the micro switch, and kill output from the regulator, and therefore shut down the engine because no power is reaching the solenoid.

The fuel solenoid job is to help prevent the BANG it will no stop a carb from overflowing and flooding the engine and crankcase with gas. Now there are others systems out there that shut off the fuel flow to the carb Some are electric, some work on engine cranking vacuum pulses.

ILENGINE said:

The fuel solenoid requires a minimum of 9v to operate, and the regulator/rectifier requires 10v to close the internal switch to allow power to reach the battery. Some engines are set up for the regulator to output power without a battery for various operations( wide area mower) so it is doable, which would also power the fuel solenoid.

You can get some mowers to run without a battery, but if you momentarily get the voltage to drop below that magic number, say kicking in the pto, the charge system will open the micro switch, and kill output from the regulator, and therefore shut down the engine because no power is reaching the solenoid.

The fuel solenoid job is to help prevent the BANG it will no stop a carb from overflowing and flooding the engine and crankcase with gas. Now there are others systems out there that shut off the fuel flow to the carb Some are electric, some work on engine cranking vacuum pulses.

Click to expand...

How come the older model lawnmowers don't have this solenoid mounted in the fuel bowl and they didn't backfire? I'm not disputing you on it's purpose, just trying to figure how why they started putting these on carburetors at some time or another?

I've rebuilt some Weber carbs that had something similar. It's purpose was to prevent dieseling after shutting the engine off when unleaded gas was horrible back in the 80s. I've heard these solenoid valves can go back and leave you stranded so I just cut the tip off mine. It has to have power before it will open. I've never had any issues with dieseling. My father's truck use to "diesel" back in the 1980s. Then for some reason it stopped.

My Trabant had a petcock valve coming of the dash. I ended up installing a fuel solenoid shut off valve to I wouldn't have to remember to shut/open the valve. The brass thing. Ignore that Mr. Gasket filter.

In part to get emission compliance they redesigned the fuel supply systems and carbs. That required the fuel shut off solenoid.

Part of the afterfire could be due to engines running leaner to meet emissions standards therefore run hotter. Lawnmower engines will actually make the muffler glow on riders and pushmowers more so than years ago. Use to have a 71 CC 106 that would afterfire if your didn't idle it down for a few seconds before turning off the key.

People may of just become less tolerate of the BANG and wanted it gone.

It is EPA regulations to prevent fuel being sucked into the carb & blown out unburned in the dozen or so revolutions between when you turn off the the engine & it stops spinning.
Hard to believe I know just think of Mr Pencildick from the original Ghostbusters.

AS previously stated mufflers run red not to after burn any unburned fuel during use then when you turn it off, air enters the muffler which has fuel vapours in there and a red hot ignition source so when the air:fuel ratio becomes correct for burning at atmospheric pressure it goes bang

bertsmobile1 said:

It is EPA regulations to prevent fuel being sucked into the carb & blown out unburned in the dozen or so revolutions between when you turn off the the engine & it stops spinning.
Hard to believe I know just think of Mr Pencildick from the original Ghostbusters.

AS previously stated mufflers run red not to after burn any unburned fuel during use then when you turn it off, air enters the muffler which has fuel vapours in there and a red hot ignition source so when the air:fuel ratio becomes correct for burning at atmospheric pressure it goes bang

Click to expand...

Thanks guys for the explanation.

turbofiat124 said:

First of all, can someone tell me why B&S is no longer installing recoil starters on lawnmowers? At least on 17.5 HP and up models. This is very handy when you discover that the battery has bit the dust after the winter and you really need to mow your yard that particular day before going back to work the following day or you're like me and you're too cheap (or frustrated) to buy a new battery every other year.

When did Briggs and Stratton went from using nuts to bolts on the crankshaft/flywheel?

Reason I ask is I have this nutty idea to made a rope starter for one of my lawnmowers. Most likely my MTD 17.5 B&S engine. I also have a 21 hp B&S Husqvarna. I'd like to do both.

I have a 14hp B&S circa 2000 that threw a rod through the block. It looks like the rod bearing nuts were not properly torqued or had Locktite from the factory and vibrated loose which sent the rod through the block. The engine was less than 5 years old.

This engine is on a shelf in my storage building and I'm going to have to move some stuff to get to it and pull the cooling shroud off to find out.

The plan is to:

1) Drill a hole through the side of a socket and the crankshaft bolt for a roll pin or cotter pin.
2) Up through the socket will be a 1/2" carriage bolt threads facing upwards. Maybe a few flat washers to take up any slack in the depth of the socket.
3) Use a pulley that uses a square keystock to keep from spinning
4) Grind a slot in the end of the carriage bolt for the keystock.
5) Cut a groove at an angle for the knot on the end of a rope.

This winter I pulled my batteries off my mowers and hooked them to trickle chargers. Hoping I can get more than 1 to 2 years out of these horribly cheap lawnmower batteries everybody sells.

As long as I have the strength and ability to pull start a lawnmower engine, I'd just soon do that as to keep spending money on these junk batteries.

I think my Interstate battery made it one season. The Husky battery from Lowes (I think) made it 2 years before it bit the dust.

The battery on that same Snapper went bad after a year and I just pulled started it for 10 years until I sold it.

Click to expand...

I think you're thinking SOMETHING along these lines ... ???

......

Boobala said:

I think you're thinking SOMETHING along these lines ... ???

......View attachment 31885

Click to expand...

Yeah I seen a YouTube video where someone did that. Quite clever if you ask me.


Both of my engines looks a bit different than this particular model so I wasn't sure if I could do the same until I remove the cooling shroud to see if there is a lip on the piece that goes under the crankshaft bolt to bolt a pulley to.

I've got an old Snapper deck in my scrap metal pile I'm going to scavenge the pulleys from and give it a shot.

I'm definitely giving this a shot. I'm tired of playing musical batteries between riding mowers and paying $50 for a battery than only lasts 1 or 2 years.