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Craftsman YT3000 no start
#1
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Willy56
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Willy56
Hello all, question on my dads mower. No start one day so we changed the battery. Started three times then no more. Bench tested the solenoid and it checked out. Tried a new solenoid as well and that bench tests ok. Took the starter to local old time starter guru and it checked out fine, just needed some oil. Checked and confirmed ground and continuity on wires. Here is where I am at today....
Running 12 volts from my car battery directly to the starter with starter wire removed. First time it spun the motor around. Then nothing. No click, not much happening at all. I had hoped that by going 12v from a good battery source directly to the starter that something would happen. Also, I took the starter off and direct 12v spins it every time. But when mounted on the mower, not much happening.
On one test, we ran 12v direct to starter (no key, just direct to starter) starter would not engage just kept spinning. had to disconnect battery to stop it. Should also mention that we had an extra overseas starter and 12v on a bench test is ok but when attached to mower same thing...nothing happening. It might spin it 2 out of 10 times. The inconsistency is throwing me off. Looking for advice please and thanks.
Running 12 volts from my car battery directly to the starter with starter wire removed. First time it spun the motor around. Then nothing. No click, not much happening at all. I had hoped that by going 12v from a good battery source directly to the starter that something would happen. Also, I took the starter off and direct 12v spins it every time. But when mounted on the mower, not much happening.
On one test, we ran 12v direct to starter (no key, just direct to starter) starter would not engage just kept spinning. had to disconnect battery to stop it. Should also mention that we had an extra overseas starter and 12v on a bench test is ok but when attached to mower same thing...nothing happening. It might spin it 2 out of 10 times. The inconsistency is throwing me off. Looking for advice please and thanks.
#2
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Rivets
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Rivets
Go through this troubleshooting procedure and post back with results.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
#3
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Willy56
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Willy56
Rivets! Thank you for taking the time to type and share that in depth advice. I am fairly proficient with electrical and have those tools. Performed most of those tests and just went back to get the other items. Per your request here are my findings of the steps you outlined:
1. Fuse is good, both visibly and with continuity. Battery terminals are clean and read 12.63 volts but that is not under load. I ground down the frame to bare metal to ensure good ground from battery to frame. Checked continuity in cables they check out.
2. Solenoid to battery side has power 12.64 volts all the time.
3. Solenoid is 4 wire. Meter hooked up to white wire reads 9.41 volts when turning key.
4. For the other large solenoid terminal (with cable going to starter), when cranking key I get 7.41 volts.
5. Testing directly at starter terminal, power to starter is 7.17 volts when turning key.
6. Not sure exactly the ground test you mean. I get continuity along all the grounds checking at various points.
Please note: I tried a couple different batteries that I have here. The original old weak battery, the new battery my dad just bought at Walmart, and my chevy nova battery which is good and strong. When running 12 volts direct from my car battery to starter terminal (starter installed) , the starter moves sometimes but usually not. No clicking at all. It seems it might want to do something but nothing, sometimes no noise at all. Starter OFF the mower spins fine when connected to 12v battery source.
Trying to attach video here and can not make that happen.
Thanks again for your help and time.
1. Fuse is good, both visibly and with continuity. Battery terminals are clean and read 12.63 volts but that is not under load. I ground down the frame to bare metal to ensure good ground from battery to frame. Checked continuity in cables they check out.
2. Solenoid to battery side has power 12.64 volts all the time.
3. Solenoid is 4 wire. Meter hooked up to white wire reads 9.41 volts when turning key.
4. For the other large solenoid terminal (with cable going to starter), when cranking key I get 7.41 volts.
5. Testing directly at starter terminal, power to starter is 7.17 volts when turning key.
6. Not sure exactly the ground test you mean. I get continuity along all the grounds checking at various points.
Please note: I tried a couple different batteries that I have here. The original old weak battery, the new battery my dad just bought at Walmart, and my chevy nova battery which is good and strong. When running 12 volts direct from my car battery to starter terminal (starter installed) , the starter moves sometimes but usually not. No clicking at all. It seems it might want to do something but nothing, sometimes no noise at all. Starter OFF the mower spins fine when connected to 12v battery source.
Trying to attach video here and can not make that happen.
Thanks again for your help and time.
#4
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Rivets
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Rivets
Steps 3&4 tell me your battery is not good. Step 3 you should have 11.5-12.6 VDC. Step 4 you need a minimum of 10 VDC. I would fully charge the battery and then take it to an auto parts store or your auto mechanic and have it load tested. I know you said you tried jumping the system with an car battery, but depending on how you hooked it up the bad battery may be sucking all the power.
#5
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Willy56
Many thanks Rivets! I believe you to be a gentleman and a scholar.
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Willy56
Went to auto parts store and got a decent Diehard battery. I had my meter hooked up to the starter so I could see what kind of juice we were going to have on the first try. Turned it over and was getting 7.85 volts and no start. On the second try, the voltage went to 11.1 and it started. Made three more attempts to start it and everything seems fine! Not sure why I got the lower voltage first try. I am not getting my hopes up yet. Will try again in the morning and report back. If it starts up I will consider things good for now. It is the inconsistency that concerns me.Steps 3&4 tell me your battery is not good. Step 3 you should have 11.5-12.6 VDC. Step 4 you need a minimum of 10 VDC. I would fully charge the battery and then take it to an auto parts store or your auto mechanic and have it load tested. I know you said you tried jumping the system with an car battery, but depending on how you hooked it up the bad battery may be sucking all the power.
Many thanks Rivets! I believe you to be a gentleman and a scholar.
#6
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bertsmobile1
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bertsmobile1
You can get internal corrosion inside battery cables
Most prevelent with ZTR's
To check you need to take voltage readings at the battery post while cranking then at the ends of both cables while cranking
They should all be the same
Can also been corrosion on the terminals inside the plugs .
These are supposed to be self cleaning and the go is to give them a squirt with contact cleaner or WD 40 then plug & unplug a few times
Finally a healthy slather of contact grease ( any lanolin grease will work really well ) to keep moisture out .
Also could be a wire that has broken at the crimp that is making & breaking contact .
Most prevelent with ZTR's
To check you need to take voltage readings at the battery post while cranking then at the ends of both cables while cranking
They should all be the same
Can also been corrosion on the terminals inside the plugs .
These are supposed to be self cleaning and the go is to give them a squirt with contact cleaner or WD 40 then plug & unplug a few times
Finally a healthy slather of contact grease ( any lanolin grease will work really well ) to keep moisture out .
Also could be a wire that has broken at the crimp that is making & breaking contact .
#7
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Rivets
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Rivets
As many on this forum will tell you, I’m not a gentleman or scholar. I just get lucky once in a while. Glad to hear you got it fixed.
#8
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Willy56
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Willy56
Mower worked today. Then it didn't. I see what berts is saying about the cables and wiring. I guess next step is to do those voltage tests on the cables. I will go through thm one by one and see what i see. looking forward to reporting back. Thanks
#9
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Willy56
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Willy56
Howdy folks! It has been some time, finally getting back to checking out the mower. I suppose the grass is getting tall ! Went to start mower and battery is about dead. Actually, it read 2.1 volts. I trickle charged it all day and will try again tomorrow. Afetr all this trouble, it seems to me that somethgn is quickly draining this battery. Solenoid checks out, starter checks out. This is the second battery. I see nowhwre for the battery top drain. Perhaps this is an issue with one of the few safety systems?
Cable voltage seems ok. Visual inspection all around looks good. I can go deeper into looking at each and every connection more thoroughly. In the meantime, I am curious about this extra white wire in the area of the solenoid. I recall always seeing it there, loose and unused. Wondering if this came loose somewhere. I do not see anywhere it would go.
It has been really frustrating not gettign any where with what shoudl be a simple and straightforward electrical issue. I am almost ready to bring this to a local shop. Thanks for everyone help.
Cable voltage seems ok. Visual inspection all around looks good. I can go deeper into looking at each and every connection more thoroughly. In the meantime, I am curious about this extra white wire in the area of the solenoid. I recall always seeing it there, loose and unused. Wondering if this came loose somewhere. I do not see anywhere it would go.
It has been really frustrating not gettign any where with what shoudl be a simple and straightforward electrical issue. I am almost ready to bring this to a local shop. Thanks for everyone help.
#10
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Willy56
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Willy56
Picture of extra white wire that seems to have never been hooked up to anything... thanks for looking
Attachments
#11
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Rivets
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Rivets
First make sure the new battery you got is good. After you are sure the battery is fully charged, either after cutting or using a charger, remove the negative cable from the battery and let it sit until the next cutting. If the battery remains fully charged, you have a parasite draw, which can be hell to find, even by an experienced technician. I had one which took weeks to find as it was also intermittent. Ended up being a frayed wire, about a 1/4”, that needed a little TLC to fix the problem. Patience will be your friend if you decide to tackle this type of electrical problem.
#12
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Willy56
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Willy56
Follow up:
I just tested the spare white wire, it gets nothing from the test light or meter. Should have done this already
Pulled spark plug and get reading at white starter wire connected to solenoid: 6.9v while cranking.
Then tested power at solenoid positive battery cable: 7.6 v while cranking.
Think I will take a closer look at the battery cable from battery to solenoid....Actually, its tied into the harness, would it be the worst idea to simply try a new cable? I can wire tie it to the original without having to to pull apart the harness
I just tested the spare white wire, it gets nothing from the test light or meter. Should have done this already
Pulled spark plug and get reading at white starter wire connected to solenoid: 6.9v while cranking.
Then tested power at solenoid positive battery cable: 7.6 v while cranking.
Think I will take a closer look at the battery cable from battery to solenoid....Actually, its tied into the harness, would it be the worst idea to simply try a new cable? I can wire tie it to the original without having to to pull apart the harness
#13
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slomo
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slomo
New battery time.Testing directly at starter terminal, power to starter is 7.17 volts when turning key.
#14
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Willy56
Curious, if I pull the negative cable, wouldn't I WANT or expect the battery to be fully charged? May I ask, where did you find the frayed wire? I have looked all over and with my visual inspection "seems" ok.
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Willy56
I will try the battery test thanks.First make sure the new battery you got is good. After you are sure the battery is fully charged, either after cutting or using a charger, remove the negative cable from the battery and let it sit until the next cutting. If the battery remains fully charged, you have a parasite draw, which can be hell to find, even by an experienced technician. I had one which took weeks to find as it was also intermittent. Ended up being a frayed wire, about a 1/4”, that needed a little TLC to fix the problem. Patience will be your friend if you decide to tackle this type of electrical problem.
Curious, if I pull the negative cable, wouldn't I WANT or expect the battery to be fully charged? May I ask, where did you find the frayed wire? I have looked all over and with my visual inspection "seems" ok.
#15
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slomo
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slomo
Solenoid sounds bad. Making poor contact not carrying enough current to turn the engine. Or you have a poor connection some where.Turned it over and was getting 7.85 volts and no start. On the second try, the voltage went to 11.1 and it started.
#16
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Willy56
This is second solenoid. both this and original check out per the various tests.
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Willy56
Solenoid sounds bad. Making poor contact not carrying enough current to turn the engine. Or you have a poor connection some where.
This is second solenoid. both this and original check out per the various tests.
#17
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slomo
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slomo
Amen to that. I just bought a new battery from O'reallys. Told them to test it first. Test failed. Turns out their tester was worn out with a bad cable. They had another carbon pile tester where it tested good.First make sure the new battery you got is good.
#18
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slomo
You said when you crank, batt voltage drops to 7 volts. No-go in my book.
If your battery drops to 10.5 volts DC or less, either you need a charge or a new battery. That is, if your solenoid and other cables are good.
S
slomo
What test is that exactly?This is second solenoid. both this and original check out per the various tests.
You said when you crank, batt voltage drops to 7 volts. No-go in my book.
If your battery drops to 10.5 volts DC or less, either you need a charge or a new battery. That is, if your solenoid and other cables are good.
#19
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slomo
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slomo
Get your hands and fingers on the cables. Tug a bit to see if something is loose. Remove all connections, clean or polish them all and reinstall. Make sure you have say 1 volt on one end and that same 1 volt on the other end.looked all over and with my visual inspection "seems" ok.
#20
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Rivets
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Rivets
That second white wire gets plugged into a female plug. You’ll have to trace back to where it comes from and let us know. Yes it should stay charged, then we will know if you have a parasitic draw. Slomo, he has installed a new battery and we know the solenoid is good. If you would read and understand my last post you would know we are trying to see if the new battery is bad. If you read post number 5 you would see his second try got 11+ VDC And the unit is starting now. Your posts are confusing the situation. Willy, when you post back, would you include the model number under the seat. I’m trying to locate a wiring diagram. Fray was under the dash.
#21
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slomo
And if it is fully charged you don't have a draw either. You have a fully charged battery.
Don't even mention parasitic to the OP. No offense but I think he knows a few words and is dangerous with them. All these things test good but his mower still doesn't crank, doesn't add up.
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slomo
If you pull the - battery cable, no chance in Russia you can have a parasitic draw.remove the negative cable from the battery and let it sit until the next cutting. If the battery remains fully charged, you have a parasite draw
And if it is fully charged you don't have a draw either. You have a fully charged battery.
Don't even mention parasitic to the OP. No offense but I think he knows a few words and is dangerous with them. All these things test good but his mower still doesn't crank, doesn't add up.
#22
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Rivets
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Rivets
Slomo, your posts are not helping anyone, mainly because you don’t understand the direction I’m trying to take Willy to resolve his problem.
#23
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slomo
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slomo
Yes an untested battery.Slomo, he has installed a new battery
And the engine still doesn't crank proper.we know the solenoid is good
All good.If you would read and understand my last post you would know we are trying to see if the new battery is bad.
First crank was 7 volts.If you read post number 5 you would see his second try got 11+ VDC
I missed this. My bad. Congratulations on getting her going again. Job well done sir.Made three more attempts to start it and everything seems fine!
#24
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Willy56
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Willy56
Me and dad appreciate the help. He has the battery which has been charging all night and he is coming here later to try it out. In the meantime i thought I would run a new battery cable from battery to solenoid. Any idea what gauge wire that is? I see some 6 gauge cable available locally. Figuring a few bucks spent on new cable could eliminate that as an issue. Many thanks...
#25
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Rivets
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Rivets
6 gauge should work fine, but I doubt that that cable would be the problem, as I hate throwing parts at something if I don’t have to.
#26
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Willy56
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Willy56
Agreed. but for the $8 it will bring me some piece of mind to this frustrating situation. thanks Rivets!6 gauge should work fine, but I doubt that that cable would be the problem, as I hate throwing parts at something if I don’t have to.
#27
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bertsmobile1
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bertsmobile1
The ground cable is usually the one that causes grief because it is out of the way so no one does any maintenance on it .Agreed. but for the $8 it will bring me some piece of mind to this frustrating situation. thanks Rivets!
#28
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Willy56
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Willy56
Update. Auto parts store confirmed battery is charged and has proper amperage under load. I am getting 12.6 volts at the battery and solenoid. When cranking, the motor is struggling to turn and I get 8.6 volts at the solenoid. It will spin one time then silence, nothing happens. Next time I try to turn the key silence./..nothing. After two or three attempts at cranking it will try to turn but just seems to not have enough juice. I am at my wits end with this possible electrical gremlin. Starting to wonder if it is a flywheel or mechanical issue. But I am just not sure. At this point I am considering calling a local shop as this seems to be beyond my abilities. Thanks to all for your help!
#29
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Rivets
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Rivets
First I’m assuming that the +&- battery cable are good, clean and tight, as well as the cable from the solenoid to the starter. Battery dropping to 8.6VDC during cranking tells me to replace the battery. I don’t care what the parts guy says. One or more of the cells are bad. Option is up to you, read my signature.
#30
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bertsmobile1
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bertsmobile1
Run a jumper from the battery - to a good ground point on the mower engine
The drain plug is a good place or lifting hooks if your engine has them
Then try again
Engine cranks fine = bad ground cable
I would replace 10 times as many grounds as I replace power cables .
I have even seen some where the only ground was the throttle cable which would glow red hot when cranking the engine .
The drain plug is a good place or lifting hooks if your engine has them
Then try again
Engine cranks fine = bad ground cable
I would replace 10 times as many grounds as I replace power cables .
I have even seen some where the only ground was the throttle cable which would glow red hot when cranking the engine .
#31
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BobHog
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BobHog
Always check your gaps - these mowers are finicky about the compression - intake vs exhaust not exact, too much compression, which many diagnose as the battery. I have had more than one shop throw a new battery at this problem, with no resolution (maybe one or two starts - all depending on the position of the piston during the initial crank). Symptoms will tell you there is not enough amps - but the compression is too high. You can try to turn the flywheel by hand and you should be able to "feel" that the compression is too high. Very easy fix with feeler guage.