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Craftsman lawn tractor starting problem
#1
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
I have a Craftsman lawn tractor with a 17 1/2 HP Briggs and Stratton engine that has been experiencing starting problems for a couple of years. Basically, the problem is this: I have to charge up the battery before I can start the tractor - if I don't, then the starter doesn't turn the engine over fast enough to start. Now, I assumed the obvious - that the battery was wearing out. This fall I bought a new battery and the problem persists. I am now starting to suspect that I have a bad starter solenoid or a weak starter. I checked my battery before starting the tractor this weekend and the charge was 12.56 volts, which from looking on the internet, seems to be a normal charge for a 12 volt battery. However, the starter wouldn't turn the engine over fast enough for it to start. Then I charged the battery for awhile and checked the charge again. The battery measured 13.48 volts, which then was able to turn the motor over fast enough for starting. Even at this voltage, the starter hesitates a bit - when you turn the key, the starter turns over once, then hesitates for a second or two, then starts cranking the engine. Does anybody agree with my suspicions, and what should I do to remedy this?
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I would check the valve clearance. Do this after you have checked to make sure that all connections are clean and tight.
#3
metz12
Do you leave the key in the mower when your not using it? that wears on the battery. also did you clean the spark plugs? or buy new ones? that might be your problem
metz12
I have a Craftsman lawn tractor with a 17 1/2 HP Briggs and Stratton engine that has been experiencing starting problems for a couple of years. Basically, the problem is this: I have to charge up the battery before I can start the tractor - if I don't, then the starter doesn't turn the engine over fast enough to start. Now, I assumed the obvious - that the battery was wearing out. This fall I bought a new battery and the problem persists. I am now starting to suspect that I have a bad starter solenoid or a weak starter. I checked my battery before starting the tractor this weekend and the charge was 12.56 volts, which from looking on the internet, seems to be a normal charge for a 12 volt battery. However, the starter wouldn't turn the engine over fast enough for it to start. Then I charged the battery for awhile and checked the charge again. The battery measured 13.48 volts, which then was able to turn the motor over fast enough for starting. Even at this voltage, the starter hesitates a bit - when you turn the key, the starter turns over once, then hesitates for a second or two, then starts cranking the engine. Does anybody agree with my suspicions, and what should I do to remedy this?
Do you leave the key in the mower when your not using it? that wears on the battery. also did you clean the spark plugs? or buy new ones? that might be your problem
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
How in ?.??? Does leaving the key in the unit wear down the battery? I may be an old fart, but that is a ridiculous statement. The key never makes an electrical connection.
#5
Carscw
Carscw
The key makes more sense then cleaning the spark plugs
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
#6
reynoldston
I can sure see what you are saying and agree with you. but I have learned years ago what is a ridiculous statement. About the time I think that something is ridiculous in the repair business it comes back and hits me in the face. I would say it is likely the key never makes a electric connection. Never be sure of anything in the repair business. If there is a volage draw on the battery find it.
reynoldston
How in ?.??? Does leaving the key in the unit wear down the battery? I may be an old fart, but that is a ridiculous statement. The key never makes an electrical connection.
I can sure see what you are saying and agree with you. but I have learned years ago what is a ridiculous statement. About the time I think that something is ridiculous in the repair business it comes back and hits me in the face. I would say it is likely the key never makes a electric connection. Never be sure of anything in the repair business. If there is a volage draw on the battery find it.
#7
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I stand by what I said until someone can prove me wrong without physically altering the switch. Even then if the key switch is bad, removing the key will make no difference. Just an old fart, wrench monkey, who does know a little about electricity and electrical components. Just sick of seeing posts leading people in directions that go no where. But you know me, I like to start trouble.
#8
metz12
Alright your right and I'm wrong and your right. Sorry.
metz12
I stand by what I said until someone can prove me wrong without physically altering the switch. Even then if the key switch is bad, removing the key will make no difference. Just an old fart, wrench monkey, who does know a little about electricity and electrical components. Just sick of seeing posts leading people in directions that go no where. But you know me, I like to start trouble.
Alright your right and I'm wrong and your right. Sorry.
#9
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
It doesnt sound like an electrical fault but mechanical.
Like Rivets said check valve clearances.
Also does engine spin over with spark plug removed before charging your battery.
If yes then decompressor on cam shaft may be faulty.
Check clearances!!!
Like Rivets said check valve clearances.
Also does engine spin over with spark plug removed before charging your battery.
If yes then decompressor on cam shaft may be faulty.
Check clearances!!!
#10
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
I have never tried cranking the engine with the spark plug out before. Like I mentioned, the engine does crank before the battery is charged up - it just cranks rather slowly. It's my contention though that 12.56 volts ought to be enough to start the tractor. I'm having trouble understanding how the valve clearance could make the tractor start up when it cranks fast but not when it cranks slowly - maybe you'all can enlighten me.
Oh, and BTW - I always remove the key after mowing.
Oh, and BTW - I always remove the key after mowing.
#11
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If the valve clearance is too great, the compression release will not work properly, which will not let the engine turn over properly on starting.
#12
pugaltitude
Couldnt have put it better myself.
Check the clearances and make sure the decomp is working.
pugaltitude
If the valve clearance is too great, the compression release will not work properly, which will not let the engine turn over properly on starting.
Couldnt have put it better myself.
Check the clearances and make sure the decomp is working.
#13
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
I think you guys have gone past my level of experience (which is not hard). Can you explain "compression release" and "decomp"?
This is starting to sound like a trip to the repair shop is in-order.
This is starting to sound like a trip to the repair shop is in-order.
#14
Old Goat
Experienced that for years until I replaced those 200 CCA batteries with this bad boy.
Briggs & Stratton® Lawn & Garden Tractor Battery, 420 Cranking Amps - 4700042 | Tractor Supply Company
What happens when you jump start it off the car?
Charles
Old Goat
I have a Craftsman lawn tractor with a 17 1/2 HP Briggs and Stratton engine that has been experiencing starting problems for a couple of years. Basically, the problem is this: I have to charge up the battery before I can start the tractor - if I don't, then the starter doesn't turn the engine over fast enough to start. Now, I assumed the obvious - that the battery was wearing out. This fall I bought a new battery and the problem persists. I am now starting to suspect that I have a bad starter solenoid or a weak starter. I checked my battery before starting the tractor this weekend and the charge was 12.56 volts, which from looking on the internet, seems to be a normal charge for a 12 volt battery. However, the starter wouldn't turn the engine over fast enough for it to start. Then I charged the battery for awhile and checked the charge again. The battery measured 13.48 volts, which then was able to turn the motor over fast enough for starting. Even at this voltage, the starter hesitates a bit - when you turn the key, the starter turns over once, then hesitates for a second or two, then starts cranking the engine. Does anybody agree with my suspicions, and what should I do to remedy this?
Experienced that for years until I replaced those 200 CCA batteries with this bad boy.
Briggs & Stratton® Lawn & Garden Tractor Battery, 420 Cranking Amps - 4700042 | Tractor Supply Company
What happens when you jump start it off the car?
Charles
#15
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Decomp or compression release are the same thing. An internal mechanism opens the exhaust valve slightly when the engine is turning slowly, as in starting. This reduces pressure in the cylinder, to allow for easier starting. Yes, this mechanism can fail, but in my opinion it is highly unlikely in this case. As I said earlier, check your valve clearances. If your battery is more than 3 years old or less than 300 CCA, it may be part of the problem, but in my opinion not the solution. If you don't feel confident in adjusting valve clearance, I would see my mechanic. You can do more harm than good if adjusted wrong.
#16
M
motoman
M
motoman
I just browsed the garden forum for fun. If you don't believe Rivets go there and read page after page of miraculous fixes for "no starts" -- adjust the valves
#17
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
If the compression relief isn't working the same thing happens when jumping from the car or a Mack truck. The reason being is the lawn and garden tractor starter is good for XXX number of amps. ( usually less than 300 ). Leave the key in the start position long enough and you'll see the weakest component via smoke plume.Experienced that for years until I replaced those 200 CCA batteries with this bad boy.
Briggs & Strattonｮ Lawn & Garden Tractor Battery, 420 Cranking Amps - 4700042 | Tractor Supply Company
What happens when you jump start it off the car?
Charles
#18
M
motoman
When not in use my Intek has sat locked up in garage since 2004 with the key in the ignition. Never a problem. I recently suggested on another thread how to check if something is consuming current with the key off. It's a common technique in auto repair to detect "parasitic drain." Easy,but you need a VOM (volt ohm meter) which has a "current" capability. (Just pull the red and black leads out of the 2 main sockets and put them into the "current sockets.")
M
motoman
I stand by what I said until someone can prove me wrong without physically altering the switch. Even then if the key switch is bad, removing the key will make no difference. Just an old fart, wrench monkey, who does know a little about electricity and electrical components. Just sick of seeing posts leading people in directions that go no where. But you know me, I like to start trouble.
When not in use my Intek has sat locked up in garage since 2004 with the key in the ignition. Never a problem. I recently suggested on another thread how to check if something is consuming current with the key off. It's a common technique in auto repair to detect "parasitic drain." Easy,but you need a VOM (volt ohm meter) which has a "current" capability. (Just pull the red and black leads out of the 2 main sockets and put them into the "current sockets.")
#19
Old Goat
But, I was asking the original poster (paejkirk) that question. Not you.
Looking for the easiest route to locating the trouble.
Charles
Old Goat
If the compression relief isn't working the same thing happens when jumping from the car or a Mack truck. The reason being is the lawn and garden tractor starter is good for XXX number of amps. ( usually less than 300 ). Leave the key in the start position long enough and you'll see the weakest component via smoke plume.
But, I was asking the original poster (paejkirk) that question. Not you.
Looking for the easiest route to locating the trouble.
Charles
#20
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
I haven't tried jumping the tractor off of a car. Like I mentioned on my first post, if I charge the battery up to ~13.5 volts then the tractor starts up fine. I do notice that the engine turns over faster than it does at 12.6 volts. It may be due to the compression release not working right as some have mentioned - if so then I guess the higher voltage to the starter overcomes the failure of the compression relief to release pressure.
But back to my original question - could a bad connection, bad starter solenoid, or weak starter not also cause this problem. Do starters ever weaken over time? Just trying to consider all possibilities.
But back to my original question - could a bad connection, bad starter solenoid, or weak starter not also cause this problem. Do starters ever weaken over time? Just trying to consider all possibilities.
#21
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Yes, connections, solenoids and starters could cause this problem, and if you don't want to check the valve clearances then you can start replacing each one of these parts. Sorry, that's about all I can help you with. Bye.
#22
M
motoman
Some basic stuff about batteries I have found useful. If you don't have one buy a battery hydrometer with the tip narrow enough to go down into each cell to draw out the electrolyte for a reading. The thing looks like a turkey baster-squeeze bulb on top. The clear glass tube will tell you if the battery is charged. This is better than a voltage reading. One volt as in 12-13 v is meaningless as batteries can develop a "surface charge" which is high. With a hydromerter and charger you are armed with the best to evaluate the battery. If a bat won't come up on the hydrometer after trickle charge it may need replacement.
If anyone is interested in a poor man's load test , ask . :biggrin:
M
motoman
I haven't tried jumping the tractor off of a car. Like I mentioned on my first post, if I charge the battery up to ~13.5 volts then the tractor starts up fine. I do notice that the engine turns over faster than it does at 12.6 volts. It may be due to the compression release not working right as some have mentioned - if so then I guess the higher voltage to the starter overcomes the failure of the compression relief to release pressure.
But back to my original question - could a bad connection, bad starter solenoid, or weak starter not also cause this problem. Do starters ever weaken over time? Just trying to consider all possibilities.
Some basic stuff about batteries I have found useful. If you don't have one buy a battery hydrometer with the tip narrow enough to go down into each cell to draw out the electrolyte for a reading. The thing looks like a turkey baster-squeeze bulb on top. The clear glass tube will tell you if the battery is charged. This is better than a voltage reading. One volt as in 12-13 v is meaningless as batteries can develop a "surface charge" which is high. With a hydromerter and charger you are armed with the best to evaluate the battery. If a bat won't come up on the hydrometer after trickle charge it may need replacement.
If anyone is interested in a poor man's load test , ask . :biggrin:
#23
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Used to use hydrometers all the time.
Problem is you cant test sealed units and sometimes a battery has lack of residual power but volts appear to be ok.
I then bought the older, smaller version of one of these and get an exact reading in 6 secs.
As a business iv sold a lot of batteries and customers see the readings to then know that the battery is faulty.
ACT GOLD-PLUS 6/12V Intelligent Battery Tester
Problem is you cant test sealed units and sometimes a battery has lack of residual power but volts appear to be ok.
I then bought the older, smaller version of one of these and get an exact reading in 6 secs.
As a business iv sold a lot of batteries and customers see the readings to then know that the battery is faulty.
ACT GOLD-PLUS 6/12V Intelligent Battery Tester
#24
M
motoman
M
motoman
Pug, ok you're ahead of the curve...can't tell on this forum sometimes if I'm talking to a pro... Anyway I have never invested in a "pile load " tester. As you probably know a huge resistor simulates the draw on starting etc. Harbor Frt has em but perhaps overkill for a home hobbyist. What I have done sometimes is the po'boys load test of battery. Hook up a VOM to the bat posts and crank the engine for about ? 5 seconds? ( as I recall) while reading the voltage to see if voltage drops during cranking. Should hold . Regards
#25
E
Elias40
E
Elias40
Electrical can be very tricky and fool even the best technicians out there.
The next place(s) to check are all the wires, and their connections. Make sure the big ground wire is secured tightly to the engine block- usually oil and crud accumulates around that area and eventually insulates the connection to where not enough current will pass. Check the starter bolts-attaching it to the engine. make sure they are tight.
The only thing left besides the starter, is the solenoid. Over time the contacts on the inside of the solenoid get so worn down, that there is not enough copper left to allow enough current to flow out to the starter.
Having enough voltage, yes, is important, but starting systems on most devices including big trucks relies more on having the most current. This is the reason for trucks having more than one battery.
Your lawnmower is no different. same principal from the smallest to the largest remain the same.
The next place(s) to check are all the wires, and their connections. Make sure the big ground wire is secured tightly to the engine block- usually oil and crud accumulates around that area and eventually insulates the connection to where not enough current will pass. Check the starter bolts-attaching it to the engine. make sure they are tight.
The only thing left besides the starter, is the solenoid. Over time the contacts on the inside of the solenoid get so worn down, that there is not enough copper left to allow enough current to flow out to the starter.
Having enough voltage, yes, is important, but starting systems on most devices including big trucks relies more on having the most current. This is the reason for trucks having more than one battery.
Your lawnmower is no different. same principal from the smallest to the largest remain the same.
#26
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
Sorry Rivets - didn't mean to offend. I had such "tunnel vision" that it must be an electrical problem that I couldn't fathom that a valve clearance problem might be the cause of my problems. I have watched some really good videos on YouTube that show how to adjust the valves on a B & S engine. It looks pretty simple so I think I'll give it a try. One guy on a video said that you really need to check the valve clearance on a B & S engine yearly because they can come out of adjustment. If the valve clearance adjustment doesn't fix the problem then I will start troubleshooting the starting system.
#27
M
motoman
There are so many pros on this site that sometimes things sound simple that aren't so simple. IMO one of them is adjusting mechanical pushrod valves. Perhaps I should put on my flame suit but... You must be patient when you try this. The adjuster hardware is small but the wrenches used are fairly large box end wrench and either screw driver or torx driver. Then there is the flat feeler gauge which is used to determine the clearance you select. Unless someone out there has grown a third hand you determine the clearance after slipping the e.g. .006" gauge between the valve tip and the rocker tip, snug the adjuster screw just right and then lock down hex nut. When you lock the hex nut (very light torque) you probably will also tighten the screw too tight so that when you recheck the valve adjustment is too small.
So you allow for the unwanted tightening by going loose on the clearance and try again.
You should also check that you have the clearance correct with "no go" feelers above or below the desired clearance ( you want .006" so see how .007" or .008" feels , or maybe .005" or .004." ) Making this tricky is the fact that you can "force" a feeler gauge above the "actual" clearance thru the gap. This is especially easy to do with the weak valve springs on these small engines.
Final comments: The ingenius "stud rocker arm" used on my Intek (corvair, chevy etc) wobbles when torqueing which can be bothersome. Raise your tractor engine up as far as you can - eye level would be best (joking a little). If you have never done this before be patient and expect to spend a lot of time at first. Way back I think I remember hand held OHV adjuster tools , but I am not in the bis like some . Savvy forum members chime in . Flame suit is on.
M
motoman
Sorry Rivets - didn't mean to offend. I had such "tunnel vision" that it must be an electrical problem that I couldn't fathom that a valve clearance problem might be the cause of my problems. I have watched some really good videos on YouTube that show how to adjust the valves on a B & S engine. It looks pretty simple so I think I'll give it a try. One guy on a video said that you really need to check the valve clearance on a B & S engine yearly because they can come out of adjustment. If the valve clearance adjustment doesn't fix the problem then I will start troubleshooting the starting system.
There are so many pros on this site that sometimes things sound simple that aren't so simple. IMO one of them is adjusting mechanical pushrod valves. Perhaps I should put on my flame suit but... You must be patient when you try this. The adjuster hardware is small but the wrenches used are fairly large box end wrench and either screw driver or torx driver. Then there is the flat feeler gauge which is used to determine the clearance you select. Unless someone out there has grown a third hand you determine the clearance after slipping the e.g. .006" gauge between the valve tip and the rocker tip, snug the adjuster screw just right and then lock down hex nut. When you lock the hex nut (very light torque) you probably will also tighten the screw too tight so that when you recheck the valve adjustment is too small.
So you allow for the unwanted tightening by going loose on the clearance and try again.
You should also check that you have the clearance correct with "no go" feelers above or below the desired clearance ( you want .006" so see how .007" or .008" feels , or maybe .005" or .004." ) Making this tricky is the fact that you can "force" a feeler gauge above the "actual" clearance thru the gap. This is especially easy to do with the weak valve springs on these small engines.
Final comments: The ingenius "stud rocker arm" used on my Intek (corvair, chevy etc) wobbles when torqueing which can be bothersome. Raise your tractor engine up as far as you can - eye level would be best (joking a little). If you have never done this before be patient and expect to spend a lot of time at first. Way back I think I remember hand held OHV adjuster tools , but I am not in the bis like some . Savvy forum members chime in . Flame suit is on.
#28
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
In the YouTube videos they were talking about .003" or .004" being the proper valve clearance - now, I'm a little confused because Motoman just said to use .006". What is the right size feeler gage to use?
#29
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Assuming single cylinder and model is a 31 or 33 (numbers on rocker cover)
They will be .003"-.005" inlet & .005-.007 ex.
They will be .003"-.005" inlet & .005-.007 ex.
#30
M
motoman
M
motoman
paejkirk, sorry , didn't mean to kick out what looked like a universal clearance.
I guess I should also state that finding TDC (or wherever the mfg says) is important before the valve adjustment. Each engine is different and the spec should be consulted. Sometimes they give cold clearance only,sometimes hot and cold (different). Hope all this talk does not discourage ; try it and it'll get easier, but be your own critic (check after tightening). Do not do what I once did trying to quiet noisy tappets by too tight on exhaust valves-burned 'em out. The opposite might also be true if somehow drastically large clearance is set a pushrod could fall out of its "dimple" at the rocker (speaking here again of my Intek 24) From what I've read most times the pushrod lays obediently loose for you find it and reinstall it, but my Intek somehow ate its pushrod when it passed into the sump.
Just be careful and double check after tightening with your feeler gauge. When I take off the valve cover and rotate to TDC I usually grab the rocker and wiggle up and down. You normally can detect the cold clearance and then , of course , measure it .
I guess I should also state that finding TDC (or wherever the mfg says) is important before the valve adjustment. Each engine is different and the spec should be consulted. Sometimes they give cold clearance only,sometimes hot and cold (different). Hope all this talk does not discourage ; try it and it'll get easier, but be your own critic (check after tightening). Do not do what I once did trying to quiet noisy tappets by too tight on exhaust valves-burned 'em out. The opposite might also be true if somehow drastically large clearance is set a pushrod could fall out of its "dimple" at the rocker (speaking here again of my Intek 24) From what I've read most times the pushrod lays obediently loose for you find it and reinstall it, but my Intek somehow ate its pushrod when it passed into the sump.
Just be careful and double check after tightening with your feeler gauge. When I take off the valve cover and rotate to TDC I usually grab the rocker and wiggle up and down. You normally can detect the cold clearance and then , of course , measure it .
#31
B
bruceha2000
12.56V isn't fully charged. Seems odd for a 12V battery, no? My 1995 MTD Yardman didn't start today, it was about 25F so not all that cold. Started last week at about the same temps. After I tried to start it to the point the starter wasn't spinning the engine fast enough to start, I took the battery out. It read 12.5V on my meter. I put it on my charger and it said 85% charge. Fully charged it now reads 13.7V. It is labeled as 350A, 275 CCA Walmart - Ever Start.
It is a sealed type so there is no water level to check. This is a used machine given to me by a friend last spring and the date "punches" on the battery weren't done so I don't know how old it is. I'm sure there are plenty of places in the electrical system and engine that could use looking at. Of course this sort of thing always happens when you freeze your fingers off doing them!
B
bruceha2000
Like I mentioned, the engine does crank before the battery is charged up - it just cranks rather slowly. It's my contention though that 12.56 volts ought to be enough to start the tractor. .
12.56V isn't fully charged. Seems odd for a 12V battery, no? My 1995 MTD Yardman didn't start today, it was about 25F so not all that cold. Started last week at about the same temps. After I tried to start it to the point the starter wasn't spinning the engine fast enough to start, I took the battery out. It read 12.5V on my meter. I put it on my charger and it said 85% charge. Fully charged it now reads 13.7V. It is labeled as 350A, 275 CCA Walmart - Ever Start.
It is a sealed type so there is no water level to check. This is a used machine given to me by a friend last spring and the date "punches" on the battery weren't done so I don't know how old it is. I'm sure there are plenty of places in the electrical system and engine that could use looking at. Of course this sort of thing always happens when you freeze your fingers off doing them!
#32
M
motoman
What caught my eye was your Walmart battery. I think I have the same batteries and they have two unitized rectangular black covers which may be pried up to gain access to the cells for hydrometer checking. Hope I'm right and it helps.
M
motoman
12.56V isn't fully charged. Seems odd for a 12V battery, no? My 1995 MTD Yardman didn't start today, it was about 25F so not all that cold. Started last week at about the same temps. After I tried to start it to the point the starter wasn't spinning the engine fast enough to start, I took the battery out. It read 12.5V on my meter. I put it on my charger and it said 85% charge. Fully charged it now reads 13.7V. It is labeled as 350A, 275 CCA Walmart - Ever Start.
It is a sealed type so there is no water level to check. This is a used machine given to me by a friend last spring and the date "punches" on the battery weren't done so I don't know how old it is. I'm sure there are plenty of places in the electrical system and engine that could use looking at. Of course this sort of thing always happens when you freeze your fingers off doing them!
What caught my eye was your Walmart battery. I think I have the same batteries and they have two unitized rectangular black covers which may be pried up to gain access to the cells for hydrometer checking. Hope I'm right and it helps.
#33
E
Elias40
E
Elias40
I got another idea you may want to try. Very easy-
Start cranking the engine first, before putting the throttle control to choke. There is a chance that the engine's cylinder is getting loaded up with gas.
Start cranking the engine first, before putting the throttle control to choke. There is a chance that the engine's cylinder is getting loaded up with gas.
#34
P
paejkirk
P
paejkirk
When you take off the valve cover, there are two valves - one above the other. Is one of these the intake valve and one the exhaust valve, and which is which?
#35
E
Elias40
E
Elias40
If you can see the intake runner (manifold) going from the carburetor to the head, that would be going to the intake. Usually the upper on a vertical engine.
#36
S
snapsstorer
S
snapsstorer
JUST A NOTE:
another problem with batteries is that a cell can sulphate(the plates get a build-up on them) and then it takes more amperage to give you the power you want. if you have a battery charger that has a 2 amp charge setting and built in trickle charger you might boost the battery output(amperage). it takes longer to charge the battery but the 2amp charging desulphate's the plates. somewhat like using a slow cooker compared to a stove top. the slow cooker heats the item slower therefore reducing the possibilitly of burning the plates, where-as cooking on the stove increase's the chance of burning one plate while the others are still cold.
another problem with batteries is that a cell can sulphate(the plates get a build-up on them) and then it takes more amperage to give you the power you want. if you have a battery charger that has a 2 amp charge setting and built in trickle charger you might boost the battery output(amperage). it takes longer to charge the battery but the 2amp charging desulphate's the plates. somewhat like using a slow cooker compared to a stove top. the slow cooker heats the item slower therefore reducing the possibilitly of burning the plates, where-as cooking on the stove increase's the chance of burning one plate while the others are still cold.
#37
E
Elias40
E
Elias40
Yeah, especially if you are using city water to fill your battery with.JUST A NOTE:
another problem with batteries is that a cell can sulphate(the plates get a build-up on them) and then it takes more amperage to give you the power you want. if you have a battery charger that has a 2 amp charge setting and built in trickle charger you might boost the battery output(amperage). it takes longer to charge the battery but the 2amp charging desulphate's the plates. somewhat like using a slow cooker compared to a stove top. the slow cooker heats the item slower therefore reducing the possibilitly of burning the plates, where-as cooking on the stove increase's the chance of burning one plate while the others are still cold.
#38
Kodie's Lawn Service
Kodie's Lawn Service
Change all fuses and the key ignition had this problem once bought a new key ignition and fuse starts great now
#39
B
Buckshot 1
B
Buckshot 1
:smile: One problem I have found on these B&S inteks, is the rocker arm studs loosens up. Therefore affecting valve lash. No where in all these valve adjustment post, I did not read the correct valve lash adusting procedure for a B&S engine. Bring engine to TDC on the compression stroke and rotate the piston down a 1/4" in the cylinder, then adjust the valves. Problem being is locating TDC and 1/4" down. Therefore I would obtain The B&$ techincal manual for your engine and follow the procedure verbatim. Yes starters and selonoids do wear out. Don B.
#40
M
motoman
Buckshot, I have the Intek manual . It is not specific on TDC. I put a prick punch red dot on the flywheel at true TDC. It aligns with the leading edge of the coil body. I remove the plastic fan shroud to see it to adjust valves.
But as Rivets points out that may be overkill as the lash is constant over the so called "base circle" portion of the exhaust cam lobe. Isn't the important thing not to put clearance on the valve if it is starting to lift or is not fully closed? Plus make sure of compression stroke. When I took my Intek apart (newer) I found the rocker pedestals locktited and not loose.
M
motoman
:smile: One problem I have found on these B&S inteks, is the rocker arm studs loosens up. Therefore affecting valve lash. No where in all these valve adjustment post, I did not read the correct valve lash adusting procedure for a B&S engine. Bring engine to TDC on the compression stroke and rotate the piston down a 1/4" in the cylinder, then adjust the valves. Problem being is locating TDC and 1/4" down. Therefore I would obtain The B&$ techincal manual for your engine and follow the procedure verbatim. Yes starters and selonoids do wear out. Don B.
Buckshot, I have the Intek manual . It is not specific on TDC. I put a prick punch red dot on the flywheel at true TDC. It aligns with the leading edge of the coil body. I remove the plastic fan shroud to see it to adjust valves.
But as Rivets points out that may be overkill as the lash is constant over the so called "base circle" portion of the exhaust cam lobe. Isn't the important thing not to put clearance on the valve if it is starting to lift or is not fully closed? Plus make sure of compression stroke. When I took my Intek apart (newer) I found the rocker pedestals locktited and not loose.
#41
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Adjust Valve Clearance All Models - Except Vertical Models 110000, 120000 Early Production NOTE: Check valve clearance while the engine is cold. 1. Turn crankshaft counterclockwise until piston is at top dead center on the compression stroke. This prevents the compression release from holding the valves open. 2. Insert a narrow screwdriver or rod into the spark plug hole as a gauge, then slowly turn crankshaft counterclockwise until the piston has moved down the bore by 1/4 (6mm). 3. Using a feeler gauge (A, Figure 41), adjust rocker nut to obtain the clearance as listed in Section 12 - Engine Specifications. 4. Hold rocker nut and tighten the rocker ball setscrew (B) to the torque valve shown in Section 12 - Engine Specifications. Figure 39 7. Install limiter cap (if equipped) on idle mixture screw (Figure 40). Figure 40 8. Move equipment speed control from idle to high speed position. 9. Engine should accelerate smoothly. If it doesn稚, open idle mixture screw 1/8 turn open. 5. Check clearance again and re-adjust, if necessary. 6. Repeat for other valve. NOTE: On some models, the nut and setscrew are positioned above the push rod ends
This is in the B&S manual to check clearances. Remember the decomp is on the inlet valve on this model (bottom valve) and not the exhaust.
This is in the B&S manual to check clearances. Remember the decomp is on the inlet valve on this model (bottom valve) and not the exhaust.
#42
B
Buckshot 1
B
Buckshot 1
:smile: Even with your marks, how do you know which stroke you are on. Just because one engine studs were tight does not mean the next engine studs will be. Pugaltitude, broke the correct proceedure down better than I did. Take his post and use it. One thing I did forget was to turn the engine CCW to stay off the ACR on the Intake valve. Good luck, I know you can do it. Don B.
#43
M
motoman
M
motoman
Buck and pug, What B&S manual ? All I have is the owners manual from Crafstman and the Intek manual I bought after my intek came apart. Anyway there is no compression release on the Intek 24.
The rocker pedestal was locktited on the head. People may cause problems is they do not re locktite after disassembly.
The "thumb on plug hole feel compression build" technique works for me to know proper cycle for adjustment. My Intek starts well (spoken quietly) and seems happy with the set up. I guess since these engines run wide open at a "fast idle" they forgive ignition timing which is based upon flywheel magnet postion, coil build up and collapse etc etc., as long as spark is somewhere around TDC.
Does it seem to you some of the dislodged pushrods is due to improper lash, the rest to sticking valve guides-bending-drop out? :biggrin:
The rocker pedestal was locktited on the head. People may cause problems is they do not re locktite after disassembly.
The "thumb on plug hole feel compression build" technique works for me to know proper cycle for adjustment. My Intek starts well (spoken quietly) and seems happy with the set up. I guess since these engines run wide open at a "fast idle" they forgive ignition timing which is based upon flywheel magnet postion, coil build up and collapse etc etc., as long as spark is somewhere around TDC.
Does it seem to you some of the dislodged pushrods is due to improper lash, the rest to sticking valve guides-bending-drop out? :biggrin:
#44
pugaltitude
The manual is downloaded off of the Briggs site.
yes there is a decomp which is fitted to the camshaft inside the engine.
If you didnt have a decomp the engine wouldnt start as difficult to get past compression cycle.
The only way to check them is by what the manual shows.
I see alot of Intek models and can honestly say iv never seen push rods bending which iv heard from many sources.
I always set valve clearances at service and use B&S own oil.
It could be bad material or excess heat.
pugaltitude
Buck and pug, What B&S manual ? All I have is the owners manual from Crafstman and the Intek manual I bought after my intek came apart. Anyway there is no compression release on the Intek 24.
The rocker pedestal was locktited on the head. People may cause problems is they do not re locktite after disassembly.
The "thumb on plug hole feel compression build" technique works for me to know proper cycle for adjustment. My Intek starts well (spoken quietly) and seems happy with the set up. I guess since these engines run wide open at a "fast idle" they forgive ignition timing which is based upon flywheel magnet postion, coil build up and collapse etc etc., as long as spark is somewhere around TDC.
Does it seem to you some of the dislodged pushrods is due to improper lash, the rest to sticking valve guides-bending-drop out? :biggrin:
The manual is downloaded off of the Briggs site.
yes there is a decomp which is fitted to the camshaft inside the engine.
If you didnt have a decomp the engine wouldnt start as difficult to get past compression cycle.
The only way to check them is by what the manual shows.
I see alot of Intek models and can honestly say iv never seen push rods bending which iv heard from many sources.
I always set valve clearances at service and use B&S own oil.
It could be bad material or excess heat.
#45
M
motoman
M
motoman
Pug, Don't know how long the Intek was produced, so could they have eliminated the comp rel? Could they have improved the starter motor? My vintage 2004 does work hard against compression to start. Had my engine apart twice and cannot remember anything resembling a release. A release has to pipe compression to atmosphere, right? My only ref is my Husky chainsaw which has a manual button to push in. What does the Intek apparatus look like? Thanks. PS Maybe that cool Scot climate avoids some of this failure problem?
#46
pugaltitude
:laughing:
mostly wet but cold aswell.
pugaltitude
PS Maybe that cool Scot climate avoids some of this failure problem?
:laughing:
mostly wet but cold aswell.
#47
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Example of decompressor.
This will explain it - Compression System | Frequently Asked Questions | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton
This will explain it - Compression System | Frequently Asked Questions | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton
Attachments
#49
B
Buckshot 1
B
Buckshot 1
:smile: Wonder what happened to paejkirk and if we are going to get the rest of the story? Don B.
#50
M
motoman
M
motoman
Pug and Rivets , Thanks to you both. I feel better to know based on Pug's pic and of my recheck of the Intek V factory manual that "my Intek 24" does not have the comp release gizmo. The cam has journals , lobes and a gear, that's it.
So I must conclude that "my intek" is very special. Probably developed in the Briggs "skunk works" as a secret weapon , and so "hot" few would pay the price to own it. I do feel much better about my memory...Now what were we discussing? :laughing:
So I must conclude that "my intek" is very special. Probably developed in the Briggs "skunk works" as a secret weapon , and so "hot" few would pay the price to own it. I do feel much better about my memory...Now what were we discussing? :laughing: