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Buyer Beware......(Oil filter)
#1
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Is it just my Kohler on my 2010 Cub Cadet LTX 1040, or are all of them this way.
Earlier this year when i was changing the oil in the Scrub, i cross referenced the krohler filter to WIX, went to the auto parts store, found the exact number on the filter, bought it, took it home, It doesn't screw onto the threads, the threads dont even start to grab!, so i get a fram, it was a no go, I got the Autozone brand filter, it still didn't work on the threads. Finally i ordered the Kohler filter for it off the internet cheapest i could find ( 9.99) and the day i got it, Eureka! it worked!
I was wondering if anyone else has had the same trouble with their 1040?:banana:
Earlier this year when i was changing the oil in the Scrub, i cross referenced the krohler filter to WIX, went to the auto parts store, found the exact number on the filter, bought it, took it home, It doesn't screw onto the threads, the threads dont even start to grab!, so i get a fram, it was a no go, I got the Autozone brand filter, it still didn't work on the threads. Finally i ordered the Kohler filter for it off the internet cheapest i could find ( 9.99) and the day i got it, Eureka! it worked!
I was wondering if anyone else has had the same trouble with their 1040?:banana:
#2
BlazNT
BlazNT
I always buy Kohler so would not know. It is such a cheap cost I see no reason to not use them.
#3
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Im not sure what was up with that, I tried contacting Kohler and Cub Cadet and they didn't have an " Answer"
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Every now & then I come across an engine where nothing but an original filter will fit properly
This can usually be fixed by dressing the threads.
I find this strange because I usually fit OEM after market filters . Not the cheapest filter from a different factory.
However if the OEM one does not fit the customer simply pays for a genuine one, not a big deal for most of them.
And down here a genuine filter can be around $ 25.00 ( Aus ) against $ 9.00 ( Aus) for the after market.
This happens with all engine makes, not just Kohler.
However you might just find the crosses you tried were wrong because the interchange charts were were wrong.
We don't know because you did not post the actual filter numbers you tried.
This can usually be fixed by dressing the threads.
I find this strange because I usually fit OEM after market filters . Not the cheapest filter from a different factory.
However if the OEM one does not fit the customer simply pays for a genuine one, not a big deal for most of them.
And down here a genuine filter can be around $ 25.00 ( Aus ) against $ 9.00 ( Aus) for the after market.
This happens with all engine makes, not just Kohler.
However you might just find the crosses you tried were wrong because the interchange charts were were wrong.
We don't know because you did not post the actual filter numbers you tried.
#5
reynoldston
reynoldston
As Bert said the crosses might be wrong?? I use Wix, Baldwin, or NAPA on Kohler engines and never had a problem. I only time I ever use OEM filters is when I work for a dealer.
#6
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Kohler # is N2 8553
Fram was PH2844
Wix was 51410
Carquest was 85319
Fram was PH2844
Wix was 51410
Carquest was 85319
#7
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I double checked on several Cross Ref. sites, all the same.
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Kohler # = KH-12-050-01-S
Wix 51056 / 51056MP / 51335
Fram PH10960 / PH8172
Carquest 85056 / 85335 ( looks familiar cause Carquest are made by Wix. )
N2 8553 is a Chinese made filter distributed through the N2 network where did you get that number from ?
N2 8553 is not a Kohler part number , where did you get it from ?
The owners manual which is a free download from Cub Cadet lists KH-12-050-01-S as the number for the filter on page 30 in the photo list of consumer service parts.
There is a reason why parts suppliers are always asking for the number off the mower tag & the serial number from the engine
Wix 51056 / 51056MP / 51335
Fram PH10960 / PH8172
Carquest 85056 / 85335 ( looks familiar cause Carquest are made by Wix. )
N2 8553 is a Chinese made filter distributed through the N2 network where did you get that number from ?
N2 8553 is not a Kohler part number , where did you get it from ?
The owners manual which is a free download from Cub Cadet lists KH-12-050-01-S as the number for the filter on page 30 in the photo list of consumer service parts.
There is a reason why parts suppliers are always asking for the number off the mower tag & the serial number from the engine
#9
7394
7394
Online is last place I would buy oil filters, who knows if they are 2nds or been wet or what ever.
I put on the OE filter, that gets put in my hand. And sleep like a baby. :laughing:
And as for a fram, I would NOT use FREE filters from them. Just my .02
I put on the OE filter, that gets put in my hand. And sleep like a baby. :laughing:
And as for a fram, I would NOT use FREE filters from them. Just my .02
#10
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I didn't use a free fram filter.
I bought the Kohler filter from amazon.
I bought the Kohler filter from amazon.
#11
Scrubcadet10
Thats what was in the manual....
Scrubcadet10
Kohler # = KH-12-050-01-S
Wix 51056 / 51056MP / 51335
Fram PH10960 / PH8172
Carquest 85056 / 85335 ( looks familiar cause Carquest are made by Wix. )
N2 8553 is a Chinese made filter distributed through the N2 network where did you get that number from ?
N2 8553 is not a Kohler part number , where did you get it from ?
The owners manual which is a free download from Cub Cadet lists KH-12-050-01-S as the number for the filter on page 30 in the photo list of consumer service parts.
There is a reason why parts suppliers are always asking for the number off the mower tag & the serial number from the engine
Thats what was in the manual....
#12
reynoldston
Through the years of buying filters and also that includes a share of Fram filters on a list of oil and air. I have never ran into a problem with any Fram filter I have bought. There must be a reason you are saying this?? Did you have a bad experience with one? As far as I know Fram makes a high quality US made filter, but each his own on this I guess. The only thing I see about a OEM filter is that its overpriced.
reynoldston
And as for a fram, I would NOT use FREE filters from them. Just my .02
Through the years of buying filters and also that includes a share of Fram filters on a list of oil and air. I have never ran into a problem with any Fram filter I have bought. There must be a reason you are saying this?? Did you have a bad experience with one? As far as I know Fram makes a high quality US made filter, but each his own on this I guess. The only thing I see about a OEM filter is that its overpriced.
#13
B
bertsmobile1
Which manual ?
The 2009, 2010 , 2011 , 2012 & 2013 owners manuals that are on the Cub Cadet web site all list the numbers quoted.
Double checked that with partstree and they list the same filter for all years of that model.
But do not believe me, check it for yourself http://www.partstree.com/parts/cub-cadet/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/?pageNumber=1
Can not list the URL for the Cub manual download as they are PDF's with a hidden hyperlink
When lookig for parts you should always use the number found on the tag under the seat which is all the numbers starting with 13 on the parts tree index page.
B
bertsmobile1
Thats what was in the manual....
Which manual ?
The 2009, 2010 , 2011 , 2012 & 2013 owners manuals that are on the Cub Cadet web site all list the numbers quoted.
Double checked that with partstree and they list the same filter for all years of that model.
But do not believe me, check it for yourself http://www.partstree.com/parts/cub-cadet/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/?pageNumber=1
Can not list the URL for the Cub manual download as they are PDF's with a hidden hyperlink
When lookig for parts you should always use the number found on the tag under the seat which is all the numbers starting with 13 on the parts tree index page.
#14
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
its a 2010 Model ltx1040
#15
7394
Yes, on a Harley, I rebuilt the engine & owner wanted to do his own 2nd oil & filter change @ 500 miles, he bought a Fram cause it was cheap (Low cost). but the cardboard end caps inside turned to confetti thus blocking many oil passages. And the engine seized from lack of lubrication.
No more for me. But agree OEM is overpriced.
7394
Through the years of buying filters and also that includes a share of Fram filters on a list of oil and air. I have never ran into a problem with any Fram filter I have bought. There must be a reason you are saying this?? Did you have a bad experience with one? As far as I know Fram makes a high quality US made filter, but each his own on this I guess. The only thing I see about a OEM filter is that its overpriced.
Yes, on a Harley, I rebuilt the engine & owner wanted to do his own 2nd oil & filter change @ 500 miles, he bought a Fram cause it was cheap (Low cost). but the cardboard end caps inside turned to confetti thus blocking many oil passages. And the engine seized from lack of lubrication.
No more for me. But agree OEM is overpriced.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
Great, but what is the MODEL NUMBER starting with 13 from under the seat
B
bertsmobile1
its a 2010 Model ltx1040
Great, but what is the MODEL NUMBER starting with 13 from under the seat
#17
P
possum
P
possum
Weird thing is that filter is on Amazon and Ebay for that lawntractor with that same N2 filter. Right beside it they have the usual Kohler number filter. That engine has always taken the usual KH filters and I have never seen one with the N2. But it is there on the internet. I wonder if it is for the Chinese engines that a portion of the MTD tractor line has had. Owners manuals are often wrong and not changed for many years.
#18
cpurvis
I've read that Fram is the most counterfeited brand.
The problem is with spin-on filters. All kinds of defects can be hidden inside a can. Air filters and cartridge-type oil filters from Fram are probably OK because what you see is what you get.
cpurvis
Online is last place I would buy oil filters, who knows if they are 2nds or been wet or what ever.
I put on the OE filter, that gets put in my hand. And sleep like a baby. :laughing:
And as for a fram, I would NOT use FREE filters from them. Just my .02
I've read that Fram is the most counterfeited brand.
The problem is with spin-on filters. All kinds of defects can be hidden inside a can. Air filters and cartridge-type oil filters from Fram are probably OK because what you see is what you get.
#19
Scrubcadet10
My dad has been using FRAM filters for about 12 years, he's never had a problem YET
Scrubcadet10
Yes, on a Harley, I rebuilt the engine & owner wanted to do his own 2nd oil & filter change @ 500 miles, he bought a Fram cause it was cheap (Low cost). but the cardboard end caps inside turned to confetti thus blocking many oil passages. And the engine seized from lack of lubrication.
No more for me. But agree OEM is overpriced.
My dad has been using FRAM filters for about 12 years, he's never had a problem YET
#20
Scrubcadet10
We've used the N2 filter since we 1st changed the oil in it.
Scrubcadet10
Weird thing is that filter is on Amazon and Ebay for that lawntractor with that same N2 filter. Right beside it they have the usual Kohler number filter. That engine has always taken the usual KH filters and I have never seen one with the N2. But it is there on the internet. I wonder if it is for the Chinese engines that a portion of the MTD tractor line has had. Owners manuals are often wrong and not changed for many years.
We've used the N2 filter since we 1st changed the oil in it.
#21
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
From what I have seen, so it could be totally wrong, N2 was the trade name for a range of aftermarket performance parts for Quads and ATV's.
They began branching out , franchise the name and have been making a fortune as a middle man between Chinese manufacturers & the USA wholesalers.
ANother bull dust method for USA factories to claim they are using USA parts in their USA products.
Never seen any N2 stuff on new equipment down here but I don't see much new equipment.
And again if you want to put this to bed we need the model number , the one that starts with 13 on the tag under the seat because none of the filters you listed are supposed to fit a Kohler engine and ALL of the material I have found, All of the parts lists on All of the parts suppliers list the oil filters I mentioned, or the longer & finer one fitted to the Command ( commercial engines ) and the Long Life filter ( finer pleats of thicker paper ) and the larger capacity oil filter. All of these are variations of the KH-12-050-01-S which is the only one I can find listed anywhere for that mower.
They began branching out , franchise the name and have been making a fortune as a middle man between Chinese manufacturers & the USA wholesalers.
ANother bull dust method for USA factories to claim they are using USA parts in their USA products.
Never seen any N2 stuff on new equipment down here but I don't see much new equipment.
And again if you want to put this to bed we need the model number , the one that starts with 13 on the tag under the seat because none of the filters you listed are supposed to fit a Kohler engine and ALL of the material I have found, All of the parts lists on All of the parts suppliers list the oil filters I mentioned, or the longer & finer one fitted to the Command ( commercial engines ) and the Long Life filter ( finer pleats of thicker paper ) and the larger capacity oil filter. All of these are variations of the KH-12-050-01-S which is the only one I can find listed anywhere for that mower.
#22
reynoldston
reynoldston
Yes, on a Harley, I rebuilt the engine & owner wanted to do his own 2nd oil & filter change @ 500 miles, he bought a Fram cause it was cheap (Low cost). but the cardboard end caps inside turned to confetti thus blocking many oil passages. And the engine seized from lack of lubrication.
QUOTE]
There is something missing here? Did you contact the Fram company on this? If all that Fram sold was defective filters I would think the law suites would put them out of business. Engines are not cheep to replace, especially on some cars or trucks.
My Cub Cadet parts manual calls for a KH12-050-08 in which crosses over to the KH12-050-01S or KH12-050-01.
#23
Scrubcadet10
Well, the box it came in was a Kohler box, said " Kohler OEM"
Scrubcadet10
Kohler # = KH-12-050-01-S
Wix 51056 / 51056MP / 51335
Fram PH10960 / PH8172
Carquest 85056 / 85335 ( looks familiar cause Carquest are made by Wix. )
N2 8553 is a Chinese made filter distributed through the N2 network where did you get that number from ?
N2 8553 is not a Kohler part number , where did you get it from ?
The owners manual which is a free download from Cub Cadet lists KH-12-050-01-S as the number for the filter on page 30 in the photo list of consumer service parts.
There is a reason why parts suppliers are always asking for the number off the mower tag & the serial number from the engine
Well, the box it came in was a Kohler box, said " Kohler OEM"
#24
7394
No I didn't, I directed the bike owner to contact Fram since he chose that filter. I never liked that Fram uses cardboard in filters, so I just don't use them. (personal choice).
I did rebuilt his engine again, but on his dime. He doesn't use Fram filters anymore either. And he claimed Fram was not very helpful about the issue.
Agreed, I guess I should have got involved in this as well. But I'm just a small 1 person operation.
7394
Yes, on a Harley, I rebuilt the engine & owner wanted to do his own 2nd oil & filter change @ 500 miles, he bought a Fram cause it was cheap (Low cost). but the cardboard end caps inside turned to confetti thus blocking many oil passages. And the engine seized from lack of lubrication.
There is something missing here? Did you contact the Fram company on this? If all that Fram sold was defective filters I would think the law suites would put them out of business. Engines are not cheep to replace, especially on some cars or trucks.
My Cub Cadet parts manual calls for a KH12-050-08 in which crosses over to the KH12-050-01S or KH12-050-01.
No I didn't, I directed the bike owner to contact Fram since he chose that filter. I never liked that Fram uses cardboard in filters, so I just don't use them. (personal choice).
I did rebuilt his engine again, but on his dime. He doesn't use Fram filters anymore either. And he claimed Fram was not very helpful about the issue.
Agreed, I guess I should have got involved in this as well. But I'm just a small 1 person operation.
#25
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
All of the filter part numbers he listed have the 3/4-16 thread on them so they should screw on. Now with that being said, I had a Kohler engine with a Fram filter that came this year that I had to use the filter wrench to unscrew the filter all the way because it wouldn't spin. It was like it had an interference fit thread. Had to work the new Kohler filter back and forth a few times to get in to screw on because the threads on the oil filter nipple appeared to be damaged from the other filter.
I have never had an issue with the N2 brand parts, at least the atv side and I have been a N2 dealer for about 15 years. haven't done much with the N2 lawnmower parts since they appear to be overpriced compared to other aftermarket brands.
I have never had an issue with the N2 brand parts, at least the atv side and I have been a N2 dealer for about 15 years. haven't done much with the N2 lawnmower parts since they appear to be overpriced compared to other aftermarket brands.
#26
Boobala
Thank you for bringing up the mention of threads, I have bought oil filters in the past which would NOT go on the nipple, close inspection revealed the filters threads were "boogered-up" in production, sometimes I got the wrong number filter in the box ( someone playin games in the store..?? ) and then, we all know the commonly used threads , SAE, METRIC, and last, but not least, ( LOL ) CROSS-THREAD !!
Boobala
All of the filter part numbers he listed have the 3/4-16 thread on them so they should screw on. Now with that being said, I had a Kohler engine with a Fram filter that came this year that I had to use the filter wrench to unscrew the filter all the way because it wouldn't spin. It was like it had an interference fit thread. Had to work the new Kohler filter back and forth a few times to get in to screw on because the threads on the oil filter nipple appeared to be damaged from the other filter.
I have never had an issue with the N2 brand parts, at least the atv side and I have been a N2 dealer for about 15 years. haven't done much with the N2 lawnmower parts since they appear to be overpriced compared to other aftermarket brands.
Thank you for bringing up the mention of threads, I have bought oil filters in the past which would NOT go on the nipple, close inspection revealed the filters threads were "boogered-up" in production, sometimes I got the wrong number filter in the box ( someone playin games in the store..?? ) and then, we all know the commonly used threads , SAE, METRIC, and last, but not least, ( LOL ) CROSS-THREAD !!
#27
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Okay, either i messed up somewhere or what, i typed in that N2 part number on the computer, and what came up was the KH12 cub cadet part #,. :confused2:
#28
M
motoman
M
motoman
Never had a known problem with Fram filtration , even the basic can, but HAVE had a problem with Fram threads Two times I have taken filters back to wal mart normally fitting the 24 Intek because there was a problem with "thread pickup" when beginning to screw on the filter-they would not. I looked but saw no "buggering" of the threads so assumed worn tooling or improper diameter thread machining. There is a youtube shootout on 4-5 "better" class oil filters of which one is the Fram, carrying the basic pn with a prefix...sorry don't remember. Anyway, the 4-5 cans were opened and that Fram finished well in that contest. But you will pay more. I have noticed lots of criticism here over the years of Fram. I have seen Israel source on some Fram. Not unusual as mfgrs seek cheapest labor. And the consumer may be the "quality" check (think cheap ignition modules). BTW there are at least 2 thread pitches I have encountered on auto spin-ons.
#29
DrivenRiden
DrivenRiden
I'm researching the different oil filters for my Troy Z, & Horse. Most Cub stuff does cross reference with Troy, & visa vera. As far as the Kohler oil filters, Kohler sells three different sizes of oil filters: (1) Small 2.25" (28 050 01-S) (2) Medium 2.75" (12 050 01-S) and (3) Large 3.5" (52 050 02-S). The only difference between these three oil filters is the length, and thus the filtering capability. The smaller filters are made for applications where there is not adequate clearance for the larger filters. Using the largest filter that will fit not only improves filtering, but adds to the oil capacity of the engine, a good thing. Also Kohler filters only filter at 27-32 microns. A lot of people use Fram filters, I personally don't, I prefer Wix filters, but even those are pricey. I'm looking at CARQUEST filters that Wix actually makes, they claim the CARQUEST filters are rated at 20 microns, & at $3-$4 at your local auto store. Other than the size, the 3/4"-16 threads are going to be needed to fit your machines, so you may want to double check that before buying it. If anyone is interested, I'll let you know which filter I decide on & why.
#30
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The length of the filter and thus the area of filter paper exposed to the oil varies the FLOW RATE of the oil through the filter, that is all.
The larger the area the faster the overall flow rate of the filter.
In most cases the area is way way over engineered.
AS for threads,
Filters come in both metric & AF.
There are more metric filters made so they are cheaper ( except in the USA ) .
There is almost no difference between the 3/4" x 16 and 20 mm x 1.5 ( 16.5 tpi )
It is very common to find them mixed up on old motorcycles with aftermarket oil filters fitted.
The Metric filter will be a loose fit on an AF housing but if tightened enough will actually work quite fine but the reverse will damage the threads on the alloy housing.
The larger the area the faster the overall flow rate of the filter.
In most cases the area is way way over engineered.
AS for threads,
Filters come in both metric & AF.
There are more metric filters made so they are cheaper ( except in the USA ) .
There is almost no difference between the 3/4" x 16 and 20 mm x 1.5 ( 16.5 tpi )
It is very common to find them mixed up on old motorcycles with aftermarket oil filters fitted.
The Metric filter will be a loose fit on an AF housing but if tightened enough will actually work quite fine but the reverse will damage the threads on the alloy housing.
#31
D
Darryl G
Agreed. I have Kawi engines on my big mowers, not Kohler, but I also buy OEM because it's not like it's an expensive item. I also change my oil filters at every oil change rather than every-other-one as specified in the manual.
D
Darryl G
I always buy Kohler so would not know. It is such a cheap cost I see no reason to not use them.
Agreed. I have Kawi engines on my big mowers, not Kohler, but I also buy OEM because it's not like it's an expensive item. I also change my oil filters at every oil change rather than every-other-one as specified in the manual.