I’m having a hard time deciding between the Bobcat CRZ 52 and the Big Dog Alpha MP 54. The CRZ 52” with a 21.5 hp kawadaki and 2800 pumps is priced at $4700. The alpha MP has a 23hp Kawasaki 54” deck and 2800 pumps also and is priced the same as the CRZ. Both of the mowers are sold by the same dealer very close to where I live.
Bobcat has a 5 yr warranty and Big Dog has 7 years. The motors and pumps carry the same warranty which I think is 3 years.
I have found a 2016 Kubota Z122s with 74 hrs for $3000. 48” and 23hp Kohler. 2 year warranty left on that one. But I’m thinking I had rather buy new.
I’m cutting a touch over 1 acre for my personal yard. Thanks for any help, opinions, and testimonials from actual owners.
Personally I'd lean toward the Bob-Cat. I'd like to point out that BigDog's "industry leading" warranty really isn't...it only covers parts after 3 years, NOT LABOR. Bob-Cat covers parts and labor. So you may seem to be getting a bit more for your money with the BigDog, but that would be a deal breaker for me personally.
The Bobcat appears to be an excellent machine. The better warranty would be a plus. You mentioned the Kubota, but if you are turned off by the warranty on the big dog, shelling out $3k for a machine that has no warranty shouldn't sit easy with you either. I was recently given an exmark with only 500 hours and despite being a well made machine, I have found myself shelling out hundreds of dollars over the past few years fixing things like PTO clutch and deck spindles. For a big precise like this something new that you can maintain from day one and rely on the warranty to get you through a couple of years of no out of pocket repairs should be the way to go. I have read a lot of reviews on the Bobcat zero turns and they appear to be mostly positive. As for the Big Dog, I believe it is just a rebranded Hustler in which I find more dislikes of those especially on cut performance.
The only reason I was considering the Kubota was for the nicer pumps and it’s looks to be in great shape but the 1 yr remaining warranty on the pumps and motor made me quickly change my mind. Plus it sold today. When I first started looking at the Bobcat and Big Dog I was leaning to the bobcat initially. Thanks for the comments and advice.
I could be wrong but I think the Bob-Cat just has bushings for the front caster swivel whereas the BigDog is listed as having ball bearings. Not a big fan of bushings... they're always spitting the grease out and they wear which causes more play and makes them go dry quicker. I looked at the XRZ pro last year, which is up the line a ways and even that had bushings instead of ball bearings. Not to disparage Bob-Cat but something to consider or at least look into further.
I’ve looked for about 10 minutes but so far unable to find out any info on whether it has bearings or bushions. I’m gonna keep looking but thanks for bringing that to the table to investigate.
I have bushings on my walk-behind mower and after 16 years of dealing with trying to keep them lubed I would never again buy a mower without ball bearings in the caster swivel. But I'm a professional running at full capacity trying to keep a couple dozen pieces of equipment up and running so I'm a bit short on time and patience, lol. With a ball bearing setup such as on my zero turns they're virtually maintenance free. Just something you should be aware of.
The Hustler Raptor (same parent company as BigDog) is pretty popular as a residential mower and I think it fits your budget. The SD seems to be pretty close to being a commercial unit. Plenty here about them if you do a search.
Well I just talked to my local Hustler dealer on the phone. He’s has some 2017’ SD 48” with the 25hp Kohler 7000 engines for $3400 plus tax. He also has 2018 SD 48” with the 23hp Kawasaki for $3900 plus tax. So a $500 difference for last years model with Kohler versus this year model with a Kawasaki. I may go and take a look at this tomorrow. With Hustlers 3 yr warranty it is less than the Big Dog and 2 years less than the Bobcat. He does the sales and service there about 10 miles from my house.
Any thoughts on the Kohler engine versus Kawasaki.
#16
BlazNT
Look at the frams of each unit. You will find a major difference. Hustlers are not square but c channel.
If you're opening up your search, check out the Scag and Exmark mowers too. Exmark has done a great job with the Radius series. I looked at them a few months ago after I bought my Bob-Cat FastCat Pro and kind of regret not looking at them beforehand. The neighbor of one of my lawn accounts has a Scag Freedom and it's a solid mower that cuts really nicely. Might be out of your price range though, so there's the Scag Liberty, which I've never looked at in person but have read mostly positive reviews on. In reality, for your acreage any of them will get the job done effectively.
Then there's Gravely and Ferris and Simplicity, lol. I checked this unit out at my Bob-Cat dealer last spring. Pretty nice unit and has the ZT-3200 transmission and a has a cool cargo bet that I would think would be a nice feature for a homeowner. Not sure about that seat though. You should be able to change it? I upgraded the seat on my Bob-Cat to the suspension seat for $250 and darn glad I did. It's a sweet seat!
That cargo bed is a cool looking feature. Unfortunately there is not a close dealer to me. I appreciate all of the info. It seems the more I read the farther I am away from making a decision lol. There are way to many choices out there
That cargo bed is a cool looking feature. Unfortunately there is not a close dealer to me. I appreciate all of the info. It seems the more I read the farther I am away from making a decision lol. There are way to many choices out there
You need to keep looking until your head is so full of info and you're so confused that one day you just can't take it anymore and you buy something. That's how it works for me. :laughing:
Maybe this will help...My decision to buy a Bob-Cat was based mostly on the proximity to and the quality of the dealer. I'd probably have been happier with an Exmark after running them since 2002, but that dealer is a 1/2 hour highway trip away. I've been buying handheld equipment off the Bob-Cat dealer for a decade or more and they're simply exceptional and they're the next town over from me. Basically, it's as much about the dealer as it is the equipment IMO.
I have the Bobcat/Big Dog dealer about 10 min away and the Hustler dealer is about 15 min away. I’ve never dealt with any of them. I use to cut commercially and used a ToroZ557 but didn’t deal with the Toro folks because they were buttheads so as far as dealers I have no personal dealing as to who would be better. Both of the first two dealers have been pretty good so far since I’ve been looking at mowers but who knows what they will be like after the sale
Any opinions you can give on the Kohler 7000 versus Kawasaki FR engines?
I did buy some string trimmers from the Bobcat/Big Dog dealer but that was about 7-8 yrs ago so we do have a little history
Never owned a Kohler but I've been very happy with the Kawi 17 and 23HP engines on my Exmarks. I think those are FH series. I know the 23 is. Never had an issue with either. The 23 is a little tired and burning a little oil at 1,900 hours but I've worked it pretty hard and overheated it at least once (grass packed under shrouds). I did have the carb rebuilt a year ago but otherwise no engine work on either, and no oil leaks or anything. The hour meter broke on the 17 but I estimate between 2000 and 2500 hours on that one without any issues whatsoever. The FX691 on my Bob-Cat has been flawless at 190 hours and starts easier when it's cold out than the other 2. My understanding is that the only difference between the FS and FX is that the FX has the heavy-duty Donaldson air filtration system.
Basically, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another machine with a Kawi engine and would in fact seek one out, but if the right deal came along for a Kohler-powered unit I wouldn't rule it out. I've heard plenty of bad about the newer Kohler engines and them not being what they used to be, but that's really just hearsay.
Ferris also has their 400s model which has either a Briggs Commercial v-twin or Kawasaki FR v-twin, 48" deck and frame suspension with 2800 hydros for under $5k. My step dad has the Ferris IS2100Z, which of course in a completely different category of mowers, but his experience with Ferris and this model has certainly turned me on to their products!
THe Ferris 400S in a good looking machine. I just looked and the closest dealer is about 60 miles from me.
I think I’m gonna do 1 more look over and test rides on the Bobcat CRZ 52, Raptor SD 48, and the Big Dog Alpha MP 54. They all 3 come with Kawasaki engines which I know I want it over the Kohler and dealers within 15 min of my house.
Right now I’m leaning toward the CRZ with the better warranty of the 3 and since they don’t make a suspension seat for it the dealer offered to upgrade the seat off of a XRZ pro to sweeten the deal.
Hopefully I will be able to let you guys know which one I choose in a few days. Thank you guys so much for the advice and guidance
1 More question and I will leave you gentlemen alone. If one mower has the FR651v and 1 has the FR691v and you liked both mowers. Would the difference in engine be a deciding factor. I wouldn’t think you would really tell the difference between a 21.5hp and 23hp right
The Kawi 651, 691 and 730 engines are basically the same engines - they have the same short block, displacement etc. The differences must be in carburation and other subtle differences. To answer your question, no you probably wouldn't notice the difference unless the machine was already under/marginally powered or you were operating in challenging conditions all of the time, i.e., running a spindle-driven vacuum bagger or mulch kit, mowing long/lush grass, steep hills, etc.
To further explain something you should consider that the engine is responsible for only two primary functions, driving the wheels (via hydraulic pumps) and rotating the blades (via PTO clutch). Resistance on either system will create a situation where the power, more specifically the torque of the engine will matter. More powerful engine can certainly handle more adverse conditions such as driving up hills (still limited by pumps as well), but also mowing through long, thick or wet grass. So, with that being said, keeping the blades sharp at all times, slowing down mowing speed to handle clippings when you let it go a little long between cuts and always running at full throttle will help keep the cut good. So will you notice a difference between the various engines you spoke of, not likely unless you are mowing at full speed and trying to cut off more than 1/3 of the grass in wet conditions. Of course not all mowers are created equal, hence why they range in price so much, but what you want to spend provides you with a set group of specifications. Ground speed, blade tip speed, engine make/model, hydro model, etc.. i genuinely think that there are no "bad" zero turns out there when price is the determining factor, but there are definitely ones that are better than others when comparing side by side; just depends on what is important to you.
Well I still have not pulled the trigger on a mower yet. I went and drove a gravely ZTXL 52 with the Kawasaki motor today and I really like that. So I have officially narrowed it down to the Gravley and the bobcat CRZ. The price is pretty much the same with the Gravley $200 cheaper. As far as the bobcat dealer will throw on and XRZ seat free of charge
Well you've got the pin deck height adjustment on the Bob-Cat vs Dial on the Gravely. Faster reported blade tip speed for the Bob-Cat, 18,142 vs 17,000 FPM. A bit odd that Gravely has the same blade tip speed of 17,000 FPM listed for all deck sizes 42, 52 and 60. Usually they differ. I don't know what the hour meter is on the Gravely but I think the Bob-Cat has the digital one with the maintenance reminder function. Nice feature. Hard to tell from pictures but is the deck suspension system on the Gravely beefier? The Gravely "features" show an 11 gauge deck vs 10 gauge for the Bob-Cat but the spec sheet for the Gravely says 10 gauge. Not sure which it really is but the 10 would be preferable.
Also Bob-Cat has gone to Zero-T brand rear tires on their machines. It looks like Gravely has the Carlisle Turfmasters on it.
The bolt-on tow hitch for my Bob-Cat was $10. I'd guess it's an option for yours, even if it's not listed as an accessory (it's not listed as one for my model on the website either).
One thing I will say about my Bob-Cat Fast-Cat Pro is that after a season of commercial use, the only problem I've had was it throwing the deck belt off once when I engaged the blades and that seems to have been a fluke. Not a single lose nut or bolt or leak or other issue...they seem to assemble them well. Whether that translates to the CRZ I don't know.
The CRZ has the same style deck as my machine with the double-wave baffles. It's pretty highly baffled so clippings come out pretty small and it cuts well but the double baffles in the front of the deck do accumulate crud. They got rid of them on the newer top-of-the line machines. It also doesn't handle wet grass all that great, it tends to discharge wet grass in fits and spurts rather than continuously. Also, my dealer sets the deck up so that the front is actually higher than the rear. They said that they get complaints of stringers being left if they pitch them with the front lower and customers were complaining that they had to double cut everything. Usually the front is set up lower than the rear. Setting the rear lower actually causes each blade to be cut twice but draws more power.
Those are some very fine points that as a newbie I wouldn’t know to look for. I appreciate all of the differences that you have pointed out. Sounds like you highly favor the Bobcat and have good success with owning yours.
I don't know the Gravely well enough to recommend the Bob-Cat over it. But my Bob-Cat has been productive and trouble free and my dealer has been great. Not the same machine as the Crz though. The only real problem I've had is with traction. Not sure if it's the tires or that its light or a little of both. If I had to choose I'd pick the Turf Masters. Excellent tried and true tires. In fact I just had a new set put on my walk behind.
PS - I swapped the high lift blades on my Bob-Cat to Gator G5s which are a high lift mulching blade. I run them on all my machines and highly recommend them.
We’ll gentlemen I have switched gears !!!! I drove a Liberty Z today and loved it. I’ve decided to purchase the 23hp Kawasaki 52” Liberty Z. Thanks everyone for the comments, advice, and listening to me be indecisive.
Congratulations! Scag makes quality machines and their cut quality is hard to beat. Are you sure you don't want to upgrade to the Freedom Z though? Lol.
IMO you were wise to go shopping at dealers and not the big box stores and for staying away from the EZT transmissions in the low-end units. I spent 15+ years on another lawn site trying to advice homeowners against that and it's refreshing not to have had to fight that battle with you
Best wishes with your machine and I hope you'll drop in and share your experience with it once you get some hours on it.
I will definitely stay in touch and give my thoughts on the Liberty after I have it a little while. I used to cut commercially and used a toro z557 60” 27hp So I’m used to having a nice mower and that’s why I researched so much so I wouldn’t end up with a crappy mower that I didn’t like. I do appreciate all of the advice. One thing I can say is that I drove the CRZ, raptor sd, zt xl, alpha mp, and I knew as soon as I hopped off of the Liberty Z that it was the mower I wanted to buy. I feel at ease about making that purchase in the next few days. Thanks again for all of the help and comments that you gave me.
I’m not considering the Kubota. I’m buying the Liberty Z. I really liked he Bobcat but it seemed really loud while I was running it sitting in the seat. That was a big turnoff for me.
