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Hey all. I got some pretty good help the last time I was here so I thought I would come back even though this isn't a lawn mower :biggrin:

The rototiller in question is one of the old Montgomery Ward styles:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/Images/DSCF9290.JPG

I picked it up for $40. The previous owner said it last ran 2 years ago so I figured it would be worth a shot. Got it home, replaced the spark plug and put in fresh fuel and after playing with the throttle & choke, it ran. I tilled a bit with it and it seemed solid until I ran out of gas I did notice some faults with it but it doesn't seem like anything too critical. My first question before anything else, is this worthwhile? I've read a bunch of people giving high praise to these older Briggs and Stratton engines, that's the only reason why I jumped on this.

Onto the other questions, when I pull the starter cord it seems way too easy to pull and there's a hissing. I did read that it might be their "Easy-Spin" feature but I somewhat fear it might be bad compression or other more serious issues, or it might be a cause of one of the other problems below...

The tube that runs from the carb to the engine definitely has issues:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/Images/DSCF9292.JPG
^^ You can see a tear in the boot
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/464376/Images/DSCF9291.JPG
^^ There's also oil seeping from the plate (intake manifold??) which probably needs a new gasket. I have no idea where to get these parts, I did a search with the engine code and didn't really find much aside from the decoding on the B&S website. Where would/could I get replacement parts for that? Or would I have to use a gasket-in-a-tube for the plate and then borrow a new tube/boot setup from another engine? Also, the carb seems to leak right at the choke area. I sprayed starter fluid in the air intake and it just dripped right out at the choke. It doesn't look like there's a seal or anything there. Should I just ignore that?

Now for a stupid question, do these old engines have an oil filter? I can't find one and I know it doesn't take mixed gas.

Aside from that, the starter cord setup screams on and off depending on engine speed. I'll take it apart and lube it to see if that helps but I'm not entirely worried about it. The engine runs good and I was impressed with the power and performance so it can't be entirely bad Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.

The tube is the crankcase vent...The cover plate is the valve cover... you can use RTV for a gasket instead of a gasket... and the boots on the vent tube have been the same for many years ...
A few drops of ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) in the starter ratchet, plus a few drops on the rewind soring will have the recoil starter working properly...
:smile:KennyV

Awesome! The vent tube, I would just need new boots? Is that something like NAPA should have in stock if I take them in and they can figure it out? I forgot to mention too that the valve cover was seeping and burning oil, is that a proper symptom as well?

Any recommendations for a brand or type of RTV sealant? I assume it's just a simple clean, disassemble, clean, apply sealant, reassemble, come back the next day and start it?

What about the leak in the carb by the choke? I might try to pop the carb off and see if I can apply some JB Weld on the outside to make it more air-tight just to make sure it pulls air through the filter. Thoughts on that?

Thanks for your prompt advice, I really appreciate it

Anyplace that has Briggs parts will have the vent tube boots...

You can pick up a tube of permatex, Locktite or 3M Form a gasket for the valve cover...

What is it that you are trying to JB weld? The choke pull at the base of the air cleaner has no seal ... and I am sure that anything sprayed or poured down the throat of the carb will leak out at that point... there is never any liquid at that point in normal operation... "Should I just ignore that?" So yes, you should...

There were no oil filters on early air cooled engines... they were splash lubricated no oil pump in the engine...
Don't over fill the oil, and it would be good to use a multi viscosity synthetic oil.... Rotella T6 is what I run in all my engines, (even one just like that one), but likely 10 fears older... :smile:KennyV

I believe I found the tubes and gasket on eBay. I ended up finding the exploded diagram on the B&S website and got the part numbers from there. I hate to pay for 3 different shipping costs but the prices seem alright. Buying all 3 as NOS would be $12.47 total with shipping. If the gasket doesn't work, I'll pick up a tube of gasket material.

For the oil, is there any reason you recommend synthetic in older engines? Is there any change in the change interval/frequency? I have yet to do an oil change on it, I just wanted to see if it would run, now that I know the problems and how decent it runs, I'll go all out on it. Thanks.

EDIT: I'll be getting oil at NAPA, any suggestion with what they carry as far as oil?

natenkiki2004 said:

For the oil, is there any reason you recommend synthetic in older engines?

I'll be getting oil at NAPA, any suggestion with what they carry as far as oil?

Click to expand...

I run it in all engines... old, new, gasoline and diesel..
There is no engine that will benefit more from the characteristics of synthetics than an air cooled...

Run any oil... it really will not make a huge difference.
I like synthetic oil for a verity of reasons, not the least being (once a year oil change).. I run Rotella T6, think NAPA carries it... :smile:KennyV

Well I think I bought all the parts except for a reverse belt and o-ring for the tines. I think I'll just use cheap NAPA oil as I work on it more since the bulk of my garden tilling is done. Next year when I pull it out again, I'll think more about synthetic for it and the other small engines I've got. Thanks for all of your help KennyV. I'll post back if I run into any issues

I'm still waiting on parts to come in but I got anxious and had a use for the tiller today. It started up on the first pull (it's a 1972 by the way) and runs strong. It does smoke though, before it's warmed up. Reading around online, it sounds like some kind of ring is at fault? Is this a big deal or is it ok to use it like this? The oil was pure black when I changed it and I'll change it again here in a few more hours of use just to clean it out. I'm not too mechanically inclined (my profession is actually computer repair ), when the parts come in, I'll be cleaning the carb and that will be the first time I've ever messed with a carb. Engine dis-assembly seems like a whole different and more complicated beast to me.

For the number of hours you are apt to put on a tiller... As long as it starts & runs. I would not bother with the rings...
It will consume a bit of oil, but the worst that you will have is maybe at some time you may oil foul the spark plug... simple fix, change the plug and go another couple of years... :smile:KennyV

Will serious engine damage happen as the rings continue to fail? Or down the road, I could replace the rings and have the engine running optimal again? Maybe I'm thinking too much into it right now. Maybe I should just give regular maintenance and be happy that a 40 year old engine runs that good

Again, I really appreciate your help Kenny. You seem to be very knowledgeable AND willing to help no matter how simple or silly the question is. It's rare to find people like you on internet forums

Thanks, I appreciate it... Buy I don't think it is that rare... I think there are a lot of folks that will help when they get an opportunity....

To your question, You have an older engine that likely didn't have the best early life... and most likely has very worn oil rings, that's why it smokes... The rings are good enough to support compression & relative easy starts and no big indication of lacking power...
If the compression were down where it was hard to start, or if it really was lacking HP... You would then maybe have a cracked ring that over time would score the cylinder wall...
Again I don't think you have anything but bad oil rings... Will use a little oil and may foul the spark plug eventually but should not be a need to rebuild...

If it were a lawn mower, you would have to think about doing something sooner... But then a mower gets as much use in a mth as a tiller gets in a season... :smile:KennyV

KennyV is giving you some good advice here. I've been doing exactly what he says with my tiller for the last 12-13 years. It's a RotoSpader or something like that, smokes like crazy. I struggle to get it started every year, check the oil frequently, and after it's hour of use, I'm done for the year. I don't smell too good after I'm done using it, but my wife would tell you that's how I finish up every day I'm home.

I'll revise my statement then, it's rare to find someone knowledgeable, willing to help AND someone who isn't condescending.

I'll agree though, I own 6 acres and mow maybe a third of it. I've lost count of mower hours, I'm probably past 25 hours now. I had the garden tilled with a tractor this year before I bought this one but I probably won't till more than an area 75x75 feet in a year. I don't mind a fouled spark plug, I'm going to get in the habit of checking them at the beginning of the season at the very least.

I know this is a controversial topic but is there any engine treatment that would be good for an older engine? I typically use Techron in my 5 gallon jug that fills up the mower and tillers. It's not overly expensive and I did read a lot, it tends to have more people liking it rather than some of the other snake oil products out there. I will look more into synthetic oil for next season like you recommended Kenny.

Additives can be just a maze of 'testimonial' driven marketing... with most doing little or no harm, But also doing little or no good...

For fuel treatment, Techron is one of the better. To make it more economical you might look at Techron Concentrate... And there is likely no real need to always use it... it should be as effective every forth or so tank of fuel in your mower... Gasoline has a lot of additives as it comes from the pump...

Stay happily mowing:thumbsup: and till up your piece of Idaho... :smile:KennyV

Hehe, yea I bought the Techron Concentrate bottle. It lasts a long time and the cost is affordable, I'll keep using it.

I got all the parts in for the rototiller and I went down to make sure they were right and in the process I got side-tracked and realized I didn't have the tools with me to do all the repairs so I decided to drain the oil and check the gear fluid. When I changed the oil, it was pure black again. I've put maybe 2 hours at most on it since I last changed the oil, I would have expected it to be brown like my lawnmower's oil is even after 25 hours. Should I be concerned about this or should I just flush it a few more times and then change it at the beginning of the season? Also, something else has me worried, it seems like on slower revs that it will miss causing a puff of blue smoke. I'm going to clean the carb completely, will that solve it or is it just old age?

Sorry if these questions are noob-like but I do plan on using this tiller as my main unit (to replace an almost hand-held Stihl 3/4hp) and I would like to make sure that it's as healthy as possible as well as reliable.

The puff of blue is probably oil burning...

Your oil may be black from what is already in the crankcase.... or it could be carbon from ring blow by. You are still starting easily so the rings are not that bad yet... I would not be too worried about it...
Another change after the next use should clean it up some...

:smile:KennyV

I actually am having some hard starting now but I think it's because of the choke. I must have pulled it a dozen times before I tried holding the choke closed with one hand and pulling the starter with the other and it fired right up. Problem is, which seems common, on these older B&S engines is that the choke actually gets sucked back open ever so slightly and I seem to need to have a fully closed choke and then open it halfway 2-3 seconds after pulling the starter. I'm learning