Export thread

My reliable Harmony seems a little tired. The deck and the other parts are all still okay. But the engine is using oil and vibrates like crazy. It actually shakes less when the blades are spinning. It's having trouble with tallish grass too.
I had the carb clean up a couple of years ago and they did some other maintenance also. I also think the blade brake clutch material is gone. The mower was the gxv140 motor that is rated the same as the new gcv160 only the new one isn't commercial grade.

I really like the blade brake system so that limits the choices of new machines. The replacement for the Harmony is $700, a little expensive, and no longer has the commercial grade motor. I love the fact that I never have to worry about the deck rusting and it stays pretty clean.

I was also looking at the Toro 20376. It has an aluminum deck, blade brake and a 5 year warranty. The Toro txp engine seems to be the old Honda gxv design and has more power.

Is it possible to rebuild the Harmony? Will it cost just about as much as a new mower? What do the experts think?

Thanks

When you talk about a rebuild it all depends. Are you going to do your own work and how far are you going with the rebuild. Yes I can see it costing as much or more then a new mower.

I would go with a new Honda, either an HRR216VYA or an HRX217VYA.

FYI, the Toro TXP engine is made by Loncin, a Chinese manufacturer. I think it's similar to the Honda, but not the same.

I have a 1996 Honda Harmony HRM215 that was suffering the same thing as you. It was getting lower and lower on power and would stall easily in tall grass. I thought the motor was about wore out. I tried cleaning the carb good too thinking maybe that would help but it didn't. I then bought a new OEM Honda carb which only cost $35 and now it runs like new with full power again. The old carb was just wore out and was robbing power from the engine.

javjacob said:

I have a 1996 Honda Harmony HRM215 that was suffering the same thing as you. It was getting lower and lower on power and would stall easily in tall grass. I thought the motor was about wore out. I tried cleaning the carb good too thinking maybe that would help but it didn't. I then bought a new OEM Honda carb which only cost $35 and now it runs like new with full power again. The old carb was just wore out and was robbing power from the engine.

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. It would give it the power back. I think the shaking could be the crank. Has anyone heard of issues with this? Or could it be bearings and the block?

Thanks

I think 35 dollars for a carburetor is a very good price, can't rebuild one for that kind of money. Now if the mower has a bent crankshaft that can't be good. Then you could be getting into bearing and block.

Shaking is nerly always from the crank or from the blade.
A bent blade will cause a lot of shaking.
And :welcome:

I highly doubt the crank or anything internal is bad. If the crank or crank bearings were causing the vibration it would continue to do it with the blades engaged I would think?

He also said it was using oil. So that could mean a cylinder bore job and piston. A 23 year old mower is not worthy it unless he has his own equipment to do this type of work?

The shaking is less when the blade is engaged.

I can tear down the motor and replace parts. But I don't have the equipment to rebore it. So if the cylinder it gone that would mean a new case. If one can still be had and if the price isn't prohibitive.

Any other ideas on the shaking? I think I'll tear it down to check before buying the new carb.

Thanks again for the input.

Not a bad idea to check it out first. I wonder how many hours these air cooled single cylinder Honda motors are good for? I was thinking 2,000 hours? Possibly more?
If the cylinder is wore you can have a engine machine shop bore and hone it for around $50 but you will also have to buy a new over bore piston and rings, not sure what that would cost.
Did the motor get like this over a long period of time or rather quickly? Also how often do you change the oil?

I figured if the cylinder is bad the piston probably isn't very good either.

I changed it last spring and went to do it this year and noticed it was really low. It has not been like that before when I changed it.

javjacob said:

Not a bad idea to check it out first. I wonder how many hours these air cooled single cylinder Honda motors are good for? I was thinking 2,000 hours? Possibly more?
If the cylinder is wore you can have a engine machine shop bore and hone it for around $50 but you will also have to buy a new over bore piston and rings, not sure what that would cost.
Did the motor get like this over a long period of time or rather quickly? Also how often do you change the oil?

Click to expand...

The machine shops in you neighbor hood are a lot cheaper then where I live. They wanted over 100 dollars for the last one I priced. Its become a lost art to have a small engine bored around here because no one will do it any more. It is just cheaper to replace the complete engine.

That sucks, there is a engine shop here that only does engine work. They build a lot of motors for the local circle track and drag racing guys. Last time I had a single cylinder small engine bored and honed they only charged $40 but that was about 10 years ago. Might be $50 or $60 today.

javjacob said:

That sucks, there is a engine shop here that only does engine work. They build a lot of motors for the local circle track and drag racing guys. Last time I had a single cylinder small engine bored and honed they only charged $40 but that was about 10 years ago. Might be $50 or $60 today.

Click to expand...

That is just the problem we have here, they just want to work on race car engines. They just don't want to reset up to work on small engines. As I said rebuilds on small engines is becoming a lost art because of the cheap Chinese engines flooding the market. As a small shop its just not worth my time to rebuild a engine anymore. Hang on to what you have because we don't have it here anymore. The last time we needed some work done on a farm tractor engine it took them the most part of a year to get it done and it wasn't cheap. The racing engines come first much less a 40 dollar lawn mower engine bore job. Then you need to find oversize pistons and rings in which nobody sells anymore. Its a complete new reset up for a small engine is the reason for the high cost. Most shops around here are charging around 100 dollars + per hour. You are also talking about 10 years ago so you might want to recheck them prices. If the OP can get his engine rebuilt for such a low cost I will say do it for sure because it will be a lot cheaper then a 700 dollar new mower.

javjacob said:

I have a 1996 Honda Harmony HRM215 that was suffering the same thing as you. It was getting lower and lower on power and would stall easily in tall grass. I thought the motor was about wore out. I tried cleaning the carb good too thinking maybe that would help but it didn't. I then bought a new OEM Honda carb which only cost $35 and now it runs like new with full power again. The old carb was just wore out and was robbing power from the engine.

Click to expand...

Thanks javjacob - based on your comment I just ordered an OEM carburetor.

FYI - my 1999 HRB215HRX compression measured around 138 (psi) cold and 140 hot. I had to remove the exhaust valve lifter (easy to do) in order to get an accurate reading. Without the exhaust valve lifter removed it was reading around 50 - 60.

The 140 psi seemed too good to be true so I tried an older compression gauge and it read around 125 with a slow leak (gauge hose leak) so I'm curious if 140 psi is indeed possible.

My understanding is if the compression is good, the engine is worth saving and no need to worry about piston, rings, or valves.

I hope my understanding is correct.

When the compression seems Too good, look @ the piston top to see how much carbon is baked onto it. That & the combustion chamber caked up w/carbon will raise the C/R

Just my .02 here, but I'd remove spark plug & looking at the crank snout underneath, have someone slowly rotate the engine & see if there is run-out on the crank. Ideally a mag base dial indicator would be best.

But you might be able to place something stable close to the crank & see if it runs true or is bent.

Thanks 7394!
Good point - I have never measured runout on a single cylinder engine. It seems like it would be hard to do with crank installed.
If the run out was significant to raise the compression, would the engine also vibrate excessively?

Saril said:

Thanks 7394!
Good point - I have never measured runout on a single cylinder engine. It seems like it would be hard to do with crank installed.
If the run out was significant to raise the compression, would the engine also vibrate excessively?

Click to expand...

If I understand your post correctly, your mower has a cutting blade bolted directly to the crank snout, Yes ? Remove blade & check for run-out.


Run-out is not gonna affect compression, but a heavy layer of carbon build up on the piston top certainly will.
Run-out can cause vibrations. Depending how bad, so will be the vibration.