Engine What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !

endress1

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
I have been battling the dreaded mower problems every week, and its getting old quick ! I have replaced the battery, changed the oil, blades, and solenoid twice (in 2 months)...

What happens is, the mower will start right up, when I put a new solenoid in it... Then after a few days, I go to start it, and it only turns a few turns, or less, and I have to help the motor spin with my hand, to give it a push kinda....Its almost like the motor dosent have enough power, but the battery is either new, or fully charged ! I get frustrated and sometimes after slamming and throwing things, it will all of a sudden start, but it barely has enough ass to turn over.. Trying to start it so many times, I get gas dripping out of the front, down on the exhaust, etc - I think its from the key being turned so many times, and its cause of me, but the power not turning the mower over isnt.. I fought with it all last night, running jumper wires, testing the starter and solonoid, and it all was fine, but I sat back down on it, and tried to start it, and it didnt do anything at all !! I knew it was the solenoid again.... I got one this morning, and a new battery. The mower started before I put the battery in it, by just changing the solenoid... I returned it, cause mine was only a week old.. Anyways, why the heck is this happening, and why does it not start after a few cuts, or 1-2 weeks.... Until I install another solenoid, to get it to start ! Everytime I get a solenoid, it will start.... What causes them to go bad in a few weeks, or why will the mower only start once awhile after its installed, and turn just a few rotations, then stop, until I push it.. Then after a while, I cant push it... But I can once I install another solenoid !! This is driving me crazy !! Please help, if you dont mind !! Briggs & Stratton 17 HP, Scotts John Deere S1742 riding lawn mower - Thanks again, and Im glad to be a member of this great site !! Thanks -
 

KennyV

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
First... and I really mean this... WELCOME to LMF...

Second , I wish you lived closer, I would like to have all the 'bad' parts you are replacing...
I could use a few batteries and solenoids that you have changed out...

It has been my experience with all things, that it is far better to remove & replace ONLY those things that are actually bad... and NEVER change things that are only suspected to be bad...

To answer your title question.. There is nothing that will make a solenoid 'actually' continue to fail as you have described... I have several that have been in service for decades, I can not recall the last one I actually have seen that was bad.
There are many switches that are in series with the coil in the solenoid, You need to do some real troubleshooting to determine where your problem is...
I would Start with Voltage measurements & voltage drops in the circuit. :smile:KennyV
 

benski

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
It's enough to drive ya NUTS!! In the meantime, make up some jumper wires for all of the safety switches (seat. clutch pedal, etc.) and give that a try. Clean up all of your connections on your mower, and try, one by one, to see if you can track down an intermittent switch or ground. Best of luck!:thumbsup:
 

Duffer72

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
Make sure the mounting part of the seloniod has a good ground to the the metal it is mounted on, take the selonoid off and either use sand paper or something to clean the area up to get a good contact, Had same problem with guy down the street a few monthss ago he replaced his twice, couldn't get ahold of me so took it to a dealer they installed all new safety switches along with key switch and selonoid, second time he tried to use it same thing, he brought it over and I pulled sel and hit area behind it with a die grinder nd reinstalled and it was ok and is still working.
 

Grant Whitwam

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
I'm having the same problem on my Airens Emperor with a Tech. #TVXL 195, 8hp. I have a new battery, I have had three new solenoids, 2 different brands. I have a new starter (old one was very worn), problem stayed the same, I ran a separate ground wire to the solenoid body since it mounts to the seat frame. They don't work at all, not even a click, even when using a jumper wire right to the solenoid.
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
Grant,
Not a good idea to tack a new problem on a closed thread
However this is how you work out what is actually wrong with the starting circuit.
It is long, sorry for that but I have found the magic pixie dust does not work very well over the internet.
Do what was asked, in the order asked and give the results form each & every test.
Before you start, pull the spark plug & try to rotate the engine by hand.
No use checking the electrics if you have a hydraulic lock, seized engine or jambed belt overloading the stater motor.
Assuming the engine turns freely.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed
I run a secondary ground from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.
 

Boobala

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
I am not in disagreement with my good & respected friend ( bertsmobile1 ), After you have performed his tried &
true method and if only after no success comes of that, IF you have a Briggs & Stratton engine , I would suggest you adjust the valves , .... sounds crazy but I've had the exact same symptoms on EVERY Briggs I own , it's their nature
also... it's IMPORTANT when seeking help on THIS site , ... to provide some basic information about YOUR machine,
EVERBODY I know of on this site has FAILED Mind-Reading... we need this info to help YOU ..!!! see example..

GET INFO.JPG click to enlarge
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / What makes a solenoid go bad, or not start, after 2-3 cuts, with a new one !
I am not in disagreement with my good & respected friend ( bertsmobile1 ), After you have performed his tried &
true method and if only after no success comes of that, IF you have a Briggs & Stratton engine , I would suggest you adjust the valves , .... sounds crazy but I've had the exact same symptoms on EVERY Briggs I own , it's their nature
also... it's IMPORTANT when seeking help on THIS site , ... to provide some basic information about YOUR machine,
EVERBODY I know of on this site has FAILED Mind-Reading... we need this info to help YOU ..!!! see example..

View attachment 32789 click to enlarge

one thing at a time Boo.
either start with the mechanical or start with the electrical.
Once one is eliminated then go check the other.
If the OP can not be bothered to post a full & proper account of what is happening so we can point him in the most probable cause based on the full description of the complete symptoms then we take I section at a time.
He thinks he has an electrical problem so let him go through the electrics first.
Different if it was in the workshop and in front of our eyes & ears .
Other than that it is easier for others to follow if the process only goes down one path at a time.
As you know it is a logical process of testing & elimination till the culprit is identified.
Jumping around from one persons pet problem to another persons pet problem does little to educate Joe Public as to proper proceedures.
It also makes for very long posts.
No one really wants to type out the entire Briggs service manual every time some one posts a problem.
 
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