Yahoo Kees 48 in model 48172

I have a yahoo Kees zero turn mower. The problem I am having is: mower will start - but not using the key. I installed a new start solenoid and a new ignition switch. However, I CAN still start by jumping from the positive battery terminal to the starter

HERE IS WHAT I NEED HELP WITH: I was mowing my lawn 2 weeks ago for the first time this year mowing. I mowed about 2 acres and the mower ran great, zero problems. However, this past Saturday I went out to mow the lawn again and the mower started up, but if I pulled the driving stick in to mow the mower would die. If I engaged the PTO the mower would die. But, the mower would start without the parking brake being set. This should not happen. If the parking brake is not set the mower should not start. Also, if I was sitting on the mower and tried to move the drive stick inward so I could drive it, it would die. This again should not happen. I should be able to pull the driving sticks inward if I am sitting on the mower. Someone please help!

Let me tell you everything I have done and tested. First I tested the brake safety switch. I pulled it out and tested for ohms and one side had ohms and the other side did not. Then I pushed in the safety switch button and received ohms on the other side. So, brake safety switch tested good. Next, I tested the seat switch, I lifted the seat and disconnected the seat safety switch wire. Tested the wire off of the seat switch. It read NO ohms, until I pressed down on the seat then there was ohms. So, I believe the safety seat switch was good. Next, I disconnected the PTO clutch and tested the ohms going from where I disconnected the PTO clutch and what I read the ohms should read between 2 and 4 ohms. Mine read 2.5, so my PTO clutch is good. So, then I read something about maybe the ignition switch could be bad and this would not let the PTO or driving sticks to engage or work. So, I replaced the ignition switch, but this did not fix the problem either. There are 3 relays under the seat, they are all the same. If you are standing behind the mower facing the front, the relay to the far right, opposite side of the battery. If I unplug that relay I can now move the drive sticks in and drive the mower, but the PTO still will not work. I even moved the relays around, but nothing changed. Now, I am stumped and don't know what to check next. Everything, I have read, keeps saying the brake is connected to the seat and the seat is connected to the PTO. So, as soon as I find the problem it will fix ALL - brake, PTO and Driving. I NEED SOME HELP!!!

:welcome:

Welcome to the forum! I'm going to move this thread over to our Husqvarna section. Someone over there may be able to help.

do you have the circuit diagram ?
You will need it so we can work our way through it with you.
Please do not be embarrassed if you can not read one, most people have difficulty with them but the regular posters here will walk you through.

To crank the engine, 12 V passes from the B terminal to the S terminal via the ignition switch.
From there it passes down the orange wire to the PTO switch where it becomes Orange & White
The orange & white wire goes through the right lever switch where it changes to Orange again and goes to the left lever when it becomes Orange & White again when it goes to the starter relay + trigger terminal.
However electricity will not flow unless there is a complete circuit from + to -.
The other trigger terminal on the starter relay goes ground via the light blue wire to the brake switch then the grey wire to the brake relay where it becomes black and goes to ground via the double black wire.
So you have a couple of options.
1) replace everything
2) make up some short jumper leads to replace the switches ( what I do )
3) try to measure continuity and / or voltage at each switch & relay.

Note all the switches are double.
One side is open circuit with the plunger in and the other side is closed circuit with the plunger in.
Plunger out and the connections go the other way.

Whatever you do it is very important that you take the blower housing off and pull the kill wires off the coils.
The coils have a very sensitive chip in them and if you accidently send 12V down them for the briefest amount of time you will fry the chip causing a coil replacement .

Print out page 40 which has your wiring diagram on it several times then pinch a hi-liter pen from the kids and draw in the complete path for the cranking circuit.
To bypass a switch you will need a jumper with 2 female spade terminals and to bypass a relay you need a jumper with 2 male terminals.

Relays are all wired the same and the numbers shown on the relay at the bottom of the page will be cast into the bottom of the relay.
In some cases there is a diode in the trigger so 85 is generally the + trigger and 86 is usually the - trigger so you test those 2 terminals for voltage or ground.
Just note that some of the relays provide trigger to other relays.

Lawn king,

Do I need to make jumpers up to replace all switches? Or is there away to tell which switch I need to bypass by all the information I gave you. This mower is driving me crazy. I know it is something small. I just can not find it. I have tested a lot of things, that's why I am thinking it might be a broken wire. Any ans all information will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe ,
Do you understand the wiring diagram ?
I am not trying to embarris you, just to work out what level to pitch the answers to.
In your situation I start by jumping the relays to the position they would be in for starting with the spark plugs removed or the coils grounded or both.
That requires 4 jumpers, one for each of the relays and one for the coil ( 2 for a twin )
The coil jumpers have a clip on one end for grounding and a female spade on the other.
Check the wiring diagram to see if the seat switch is open or closed when you sit on it and jump that as well.
In fact on a lot of ZTR's with dodegy wiring I remove the east all together to get easier access.
Not being related to Batman there is a limited time I can hang upside down from the ceiling to get at the wiring. :laughing:

If you get the engine to crank, then set all of the controls to the start position, replace the relays ,jump the plug at the back of the ignition switch and follow the cranking circuit, checking for voltage before & after each switch,
Then put you test lamp on the + battery terminal and check for ground on all of the switches that go to ground.

It is a SLOOOOOOOOOW process.
I like to use test lamps rater than meter for this as numbers tend to be confusing and some switches have resistors in them to make things even more confusing.
And while they are out, check each relay by jumping to the trigger wires and testing that the contact on the switched wire switches between 87 and 87a when energised then switches back when not energised.

Most mower relays are the common 30A headlamp / horn relays used in cars because they are the cheapest ones you can get, not because they are the most robust.

What ohm reading were you getting when testing the safety switches. Also test the outside prongs on the pto switch both with the button in and out and post the readings.

I have not got a reading on the PTO switch yet, I will get that tonight and report the results. As for the wiring diagram, I do have a printout from the owners manual and service manual. Again, I have checked the switch on the Break, the 3 relays, the starter solenoid & PTO clutch when unplugged. I have also checked the 2 fuses (one is a 7.5 amp & the other is a 20 amp fuse).

OK<
Had a think about it and worked out a battle plan that everyone should be able to follow.
So we will start by testing the + side of the cranking circuit, from the 20A fuse through to the starter solenoid.
You will need 2 male=male jumpers to do this.
You can check for voltage with a meter or a lamp, but a lamp will be easier as you can clip the ground lead to a good ground and thus have one hand free.
When I say 12 V anything from 10 to 12 is fine.

1) Check for 12 V both side for the 20A fuse on the red wire
2) Check for 12 V at the B terminal ( red wire ) at the back of the ignition switch
3) Hole the switch in the start position and check for 12V at the S terminal ( Orange wire ) and at the A1 terminal ( purple wire )
4) pull the plug off and jump the red wire to the orange wire.
5) check for 12 V on the orange wire at the PTO switch ( switch off )
6) check for 12 V on the orange/white wire at the PTO switch ( switch off )
7) turn the switch on and check for no voltage on the orange / white wire, then turn switch off again
8) Check for 12 V on the orange / white wire on the RIGHT stick, with the stick out
9) check for 12 V on the orange wire ( stick out )
10) move stick in check for no volts on orange wire, return stick to out position.
11) check for 12 V on the orange wire at the LEFT stick.
12) check for 12 V on the orange / white wire, stick out.
13) Check for 0 V when stick moved in, return to out position
14) locate the starting relay, it has a Yellow, Light Blue, orange / white & double black wires.
15) check for 12 V on the orange / white wire
16) Check for GROUND on the light blue wire
17) remove the relay and jump the orange / white to the yellow terminal, engine should crank

18) move the jump to connect the yellow to the green wires, go back to the ignition plug and move the jump from the Orange wire to the Purple wire. sit on the seat & engine should crank
If not
19) check for 12 V on the purple wire at the seat switch
20 ) check for 12 V on the green wire at the seat switch, when compressed, if good jump the switch wires.
21) check for 12 V on the green wire at the starter relay

At this point you have checked the trigger power circuit ( the orange wires ) and the cranking power supply ( purple & green wires ).

Verify that the relay is working by powering 85 & grounding 86.
The relay should click and 30 should move from 87 to 87a.

If all is good then go have a beer you have earned it and let the blood drain back from your head which has been upside down for way too long ( pull the jumpers first )

You have also isolated the problem to the ground side of the starting trigger circuit.
Checking that is basically the same except you are looking for ground, not 12 V and this is where the test lamp come to its own as you hook it up to the + terminal.
When testing the ground circuit it is essential to remove the wires from the coils just in case you accidentially send voltage down the wire which will kill the chip in the coils.

This is a bit long winded but will be easy for every one to follow if the testing is done in the same order as power flows when you turn the key so it all makes sense.
IF you want a step by step for the ground circuit get back & I will do one for you.

Ok, I found some time to test the PTO red switch. The PTO switch is good. I tested the Circuit with the PTO switch open and close. Now, I have tested all switches and relays. So, now I am leading towards a broken wire somewhere. Can someone tell me how I can test power going to the PTO switch. I have a test light and a ohms meter. There are like 6 or 8 wires going to the PTO switch, which one is the power going to the PTO switch? Also, does the key need to be turned and does the seat switch need to be pressed or sited in? If so, I could place a car battery in the seat. Thanks for any help you can give me. I am checking any and all advice. Thanks, joe

So, now I have tested the PTO switch and it is good. I have tested the PTO clutch and it is also good. I have tested seat switch, break switch, driving stick switches and all is good. So, now I need to test power to each of these. How do I test power to the red PTO switch, and then power to the PTO clutch. I tested continuity to the PTO clutch and they said it should be around 2.5 ohms and mine was exactly 2.5 ohms. I have a rest light and a ohms tester. I hope someone can walk me through things to test power to and from each component. I am very frustrating. All help is welcome. Thanks, Joe