Oil/filter change interval using a Fram ultra 3416

Patrick0525

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For most of my life, I have been keeping it simple: 3 months or 3000 mi OCI. Dad taught me that mantra until the mid-1990 when I was comfortable with Mobil 1 and oil filter(cellulose media) change every 5K mi. It wasn't until 2014 that I agreed with Toyota synthetic oil/filter 10K OCI. Blackstone's used oil data analysis confirmed Toyota's service wasn't out of line.
For the residential mower, I agree for most people the end of season engine OCI is the best plan. A no brainer and follows common sense. But today's synthetic oil/filters is a game changer and Dad's mantra is outdated.

As I get older, I tend not to follow but listen, leverage the latest technology and adapt.
 

cruzenmike

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I would like to say that there are two different types of people in this world; those who do things by their manuals, and those who don't. Of course there are a dozen or so variations in there but at the end of the day, if you cannot or will not follow the manufacturer's recommendations for changing your oil, how can you expect the most out of your engine. This doesn't just go for the oil change, but for the operation of that equipment. It still boggles my mind how today, in 2018 we still have Uncle Ed's and Jiffy Lube saying that you need to change your oil every 3,000 miles when in most cases you can go twice that with absolutely no harm being done to your engine. Here is a perfect example: My 1998 Mustang GT 4.6 stated in the Owner's Manual that the oil should be changed every 5,000 miles unless the vehicle is being used for "service" such as delivery, taxi or where excessive idling is to occur. Wow, 20 years ago I could go 5,000 miles between oil changes, using conventional oil and in a car that had 8 cylinders at that. At the same time BMW could push 10,000 miles out of synthetic in their cars. Anyway, to answer the question from my point of view....

Although filters made by FRAM, Purolator or whoever may "fit" your engine, it does not mean that they are "meant" for your engine. There are only so many filter diameters and thread patterns to which a filter can have so eventually there will be some that "fit" your engine, but that may be all it does. Each and every oil or hydraulic filter is not made equally. Bypass pressure, filtering efficiency and capacity are examples of things that should be relatively specific to your engine/application. Briggs, Kawasaki, Honda and Kohler all offer their own filters that fit their engines; filters engineered/intended specifically for their engines. While they may not make the filters, their suppliers are required to make them to THEIR specs. Considering how often someone changes their oil, it all comes down to this: The average homeowner will only use their equipment enough to warrant changing the oil once per mowing season (50-100 hours). Obviously if you live in the warmer climates and you have a longer mowing season, you may want to change it two times a year, but chances are your oil is not degrading as quickly as the oil in a machine that is subject to more cold starts. As for cold starts, anyone that uses their rider type mower all year-round, should be changing from a straight oil to a multi-viscosity in the fall and spring anyway (changing filter at the same time as well). This helps to keep the engine running at its optimal all year-round. commercial users may change their oil 20 times a season (arbitrary number) but hey, their making money off of their equipment so they should run their business and quote their jobs with this in mind. Their equipment must RUN to keep their revenue coming in.

You may find people on here that are sympathetic to your intentions such as saving a few bucks, getting a filter anywhere you want or whatever, but I would think that most people who care at all about their equipment, will stick to what their manual specifies.
 

cpurvis

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I would like to say that there are two different types of people in this world; those who do things by their manuals, and those who don't. Of course

I would guess there are more than two categories of people.

Cat 1--Those who buy new equipment and pore over the manual, using only manufacturer's labeled parts, and maybe taking the extra step, such as oil analysis.

Cat 2--Those who buy new equipment, skim through the manual and throw it in a drawer.

Cat 3--Those who buy new equipment, throw the manual in a drawer and skim through it only after a problem occurs.

Cat 4--Those who buy used equipment and have no manual at all.

I agree completely with using OEM filters IF no direct cross over can be found. But if one can be found, you're getting a filter that meets or exceeds OEM specs and is usually less expensive.
 

Patrick0525

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This is not a knock on the members of the lawnmowerforum but they are more technically conservative than members of the bob the oil guy forum. On their automotive fotum, Blackstone oil used analysis and virgin oil analysis are commonly posted discussions. Can't see residential mowers spending $20 per oil analysis for 50hrs of engine time that only holds 2qts. Commercial mowers can't be bothered since it is more economical to do more mowing and make money.
 

bertsmobile1

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FWIW I was indrectly involved in the first use of X-ray diffraction to analyse engine oil.
A wonderful idea and after only 2 years we had tabulated enough data to be able to predict wear in .00001" incriments.
Because this was X-Ray diffraction we could determine which alloy we were looking at and as in helicopter engines almost every part is a different alloy we could be quite specific as to what was wearing.
Exceptionally interesting but ultimately got closed down because those higher up in the pecking order could not comprehend what the lines on the screen were and would much rather trust technicians pull down & measure.
Flame chromotography was also another thing that originated down here but in reality is not particularly use full as while you know there is more iron in the oil you don't know weather it is from a piston ring, crank journal or cylinder liner.
I am not sure what methods Blackstone use but for their price it has to be either flame chromotography , Atomic adsorption , or MRI, done on an automated production line process.

As a one off, an oil analysis is less than useless.
You have to start doing them from day one and plot the results.
Furthermore the plotted results need to be correlated to actual measured wear and this will be different for every engine.
Add to this the massive errors that can be introduced with sampleing techniques so to be effective the same person needs to do all of the sampleing under the same conditions.

It would surprise me if it was not flavour of the month on any oil forum as without contradiction , the less people understand about any "exotic" topic the more they flap their gums about it.
After all detergent oils have been around since the wide spread adoption of external oil filters , yet 9 out of 10 will happily tell you that a detergent will wash your engine spotlessly clean inside, showing that they have a zero understanding about oils.
And the worst thing about that is Wikki actually has the definition of detergncy almost correct.

As for forum members being conservative I would say it was more like their heads well far less up their own posteriour than most other forums.
After all we are talking about cheap engines that run in cheap devices and use a tiny amount of oil , which as you know is the cheapest part you can put in your engine.
For the cost of a single determination you could change the oil 4 times and I KNOW which would be the best for the engine.
 

cruzenmike

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Understanding that the oil debate is one that will never die, I do want to say that each and every person on here, with maybe the exception of 1 or 2 mad scientists that claim to have actual experience in oil analysis, is going to provide the most SUBJECTIVE opinion of oil, filters, maintenance, etc.

Contrary to what many may think, manufacturer's would like consumers to have the best possible experience with their products. No, they do not make things that will last for ever, but it is in their best interests if the product they sell keep their customers happy and returning. With that being said, the operator's manual lists what the manufacturer suggests/recommends for consumers to get the most out of their equipment. This will usually be conservative maintenance schedules, using oem (suppliers) parts and so on. Any deviation from what the manual says is simply taking a risk. A risk that your engine will crap out on you in two years, or maybe a risk that it lasts forever (yes, risk can be positive too). But following the manual should instill in most people a degree of certainty that deviation cannot and should not.

To each his own.....
 

7394

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Well my Kawasaki owners manual says change oil @ 200 hours, & filter @ 300 hours.

I average 25 hours a year, so I do my services at end of each year of mowing. Oil doesn't wear out but the additives do.
 

motoman

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The FRAM bashing is somewhat justified, I guess, but early death from them may be an overstatement. I have had several whose threads would not start. These are the cheapies ($4 Walmart). I see a shootout on you tube with dissection of the $10 Fram which finished 2nd out of 5. I tried 2 of these on my car. If filters can be judged by weight these are much heavier than the $4. I seek out WIX now, but cannot always find certain PNs locally.
 

Darryl G

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Just to point out that you can use the best oil and the best filter and still destroy your engine...it doesn't make it immune to abuse. Constantly trying to jam your mower through tall lush growth traveling too fast and failure to keep the engine free of external debris will likely do more damage than letting your oil change interval slip a bit or using cheap oil and filters.
 
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