Toro TimeCutter SS4235 dies when handles are pulled in

Moonwink · Apr 6, 2018

I'd like to revisit this problem. (Originally posted by wrdabney on 03-10-2014) I cannot post the link because I lack privilege. I tried replying to that post but it didn't bump it to the new message pile so I'm starting over.

wrdabney posted a YouTube video titled simply "Mower" that shows his mower dying every time he pulls the handles in but I can't post that link either.

I've got a 2011 Toro Time Cutter SS4235 (I recently got as a gift) just like the OP and I'm having the exact same problem. I could make the same video. I get it started and pull on either or both handles to move it and the engine dies. I've tried changing the safety switches on both of the handles without any results. I replaced the start switch because it had been abused and nothing changed. I just replaced the control box thinking it had to be the problem (because it wasn't the safety switches) and there was no change. I don't have an hour meter. Recently the battery is going bad and I've had to jump start it with an external battery pack and it's started with the seat up out of the way and continues to run until I sit down and pull the handles in. I haven't changed the PTO switch. If the PTO has the blades turning, the engine dies when I get off the seat.

Now here's the kicker: If I fool around with repeated attempts at pulling the handles together long enough (10 or 20 times), it will eventually take off and keep running. I can cut my whole yard - as long as I don't take a break and stop mowing. I can pull the handles out and stop for a few seconds and go again but if I get off and pick up a branch or some trash, it'll die when I pull the handles in again. The process starts all over again. I've even tried leaving the engine running (PTO off) when I got off to do something but still had to play with it when I got back on to move it.

The only control I haven't replaced is the PTO switch. The mower dies just trying to move when the handles (either one or both) are pulled in without the blades turning. It does the same thing whether the blades are engages or not.

Any Toro Time Cutter experts out there?

I found another post with the same issue: Toro SS4235 stalling issues
(I'd have posted a link to it but as a new member I lack privilege to post links.)

Originally Posted by linwoodcampbell View Post
This is a know issue from Toro. Contact your local Toro dealer for a warranty repair. It involves a burr in the brake that has to be removed.
The brakes on this mower are a couple of spur gears on both rear wheels the control box flips a lever to engage. When the gears are engages, there is no way to turn the rear wheels. With this mower being 7 years old now, I doubt Toro will help me any.

Toro
Model No.: 74624
Serial No.: 311008868
Kawasaki
Code: FR600V-AS05-R
E/NO: FR600VA15938

bertsmobile1 · Apr 6, 2018

Moonwink said:
I'd like to revisit this problem. (Originally posted by wrdabney on 03-10-2014) I cannot post the link because I lack privilege. I tried replying to that post but it didn't bump it to the new message pile so I'm starting over.

wrdabney posted a YouTube video titled simply "Mower" that shows his mower dying every time he pulls the handles in but I can't post that link either.

I've got a 2011 Toro Time Cutter SS4235 (I recently got as a gift) just like the OP and I'm having the exact same problem. I could make the same video. I get it started and pull on either or both handles to move it and the engine dies. I've tried changing the safety switches on both of the handles without any results. I replaced the start switch because it had been abused and nothing changed. I just replaced the control box thinking it had to be the problem (because it wasn't the safety switches) and there was no change. I don't have an hour meter. Recently the battery is going bad and I've had to jump start it with an external battery pack and it's started with the seat up out of the way and continues to run until I sit down and pull the handles in. I haven't changed the PTO switch. If the PTO has the blades turning, the engine dies when I get off the seat.

Now here's the kicker: If I fool around with repeated attempts at pulling the handles together long enough (10 or 20 times), it will eventually take off and keep running. I can cut my whole yard - as long as I don't take a break and stop mowing. I can pull the handles out and stop for a few seconds and go again but if I get off and pick up a branch or some trash, it'll die when I pull the handles in again. The process starts all over again. I've even tried leaving the engine running (PTO off) when I got off to do something but still had to play with it when I got back on to move it.

The only control I haven't replaced is the PTO switch. The mower dies just trying to move when the handles (either one or both) are pulled in without the blades turning. It does the same thing whether the blades are engages or not.

Any Toro Time Cutter experts out there?

I found another post with the same issue: Toro SS4235 stalling issues
(I'd have posted a link to it but as a new member I lack privilege to post links.)

Toro
Model No.: 74624
Serial No.: 311008868
Kawasaki
Code: FR600V-AS05-R
E/NO: FR600VA15938

Go to the toro web site with a copy of your machine numbers ( photograph the ID plate ) and download your repair manuals.
They are all coded with numbers and I have forgotten which one is which.
there are 4 of them ,
1) engine
2) mower
3) quality of cut
4) demystification guide

The last one is what you need.
It is the wiring diagrams and circuit theory for Toro mowers.

There is no single safety switch that works alone, they are all paired.
And from memory on your machine it is the lap bars + brake switch / lap bars + seat Switch

Moonwink · Apr 6, 2018

I don't see the document you're referring to. Here's a picture of all of them.

This seems to be a common problem on this model. The message I referred to above never was answered and the OP never came back to say what the fix was.

bertsmobile1 · Apr 7, 2018

Moonwink said:
I don't see the document you're referring to. Here's a picture of all of them.
View attachment 36865

This seems to be a common problem on this model. The message I referred to above never was answered and the OP never came back to say what the fix was.

Well we will be standing on virgin soil, always fun. Nut it out & you too can be a hero.

The selection that came up was not as I remembered it but to be fair, I got up at 3 am every day for a week in order to download all of the Toro manuals in my ISP's "off peak" period.
Toro call them all "Service Manuals" so download both of them and the parts book as well.
Thus we will all be singing from the same book.
I will download them myself just to make sure they are what I think they are.
Considering it is a free down laod you may as well pop a copy of the operators manual on your computer as well, that way it won't get lost.
SO when you are done, get back and we will take it from there.
In the mean time I will troll through the hard drive for the SS4235 manuals and check the electrics are there of if you will need to chase up another file.

Usually it will be a fault in the parking brake / lap bars circuit ( including relay if fitted ).
If you have the electric brake model there is a brake relay and it prevents the mower moving if the brakes are applied asthe brake is a rack & pinion arangement and you destroy it if you try to drive with it engaged.

Rivets is the go to man for Toro Problems so hopefully he will join in before I make too much of a jackass of myself ( easily done ).

bertsmobile1 · Apr 7, 2018

Well it is amazing what you find when you read the manual
In the mower service manual , on page 7-8 in the one I have here are two you tube links.
The first one explains the wiring and the second one specifically shows you problems with the brake control module.
The first was a bit dissapointing as They sort of hinted they would tell you how to electrically diagnose a problem with the actuator, but they don't, however you can nut out what the pin readings should be, but you can't take back readings without destroying the moisture intergity of the module.

Despite being called a brake module it is actually a mower engine control module.

Read the book, watch the vidoes then let us know how you get on.

Moonwink · Apr 7, 2018

I can't find any link to the FR600 Kawasaki Engine service manual except for "manualslib.com" has but when I visit there and look at pages 7-8 they're still introduction pages. If you've got a link, I'd be happy to have a copy of the service manual. I've downloaded everything else I could find related to this mower. It turned cold here making working on the mower a lower priority till later this week. Are the links to the video shown in the service manual? I watched one of Toro's YouTube videos about the control box and copied a few screen shots showing which circuit come into play under the various situations - even downloaded the video for reference.

Just wish someone that's already run across this problem would respond with the fix. I don't think I'm the first one to have this problem as shown in the video I mentioned in the previous post about this topic.

bertsmobile1 said:
Well it is amazing what you find when you read the manual
In the engine service manual , on page 7-8 in the one I have here are two you tube links.
The first one explains the wiring and the second one specifically shows you problems with the brake control module.
The first was a bit disappointing as They sort of hinted they would tell you how to electrically diagnose a problem with the actuator, but they don't, however you can nut out what the pin readings should be, but you can't take back readings without destroying the moisture intergity of the module.

Despite being called a brake module it is actually a mower engine control module.

Read the book, watch the videos then let us know how you get on.

bertsmobile1 · Apr 7, 2018

Sorry, typo on my behalf it is in the mower manual that you put the links to.
Hopefully you have already downloaded them and started to read them so come across the you tube links.

Moonwink · Apr 8, 2018

Is there any way you could be a little more specific about those page numbers? The mower service manual is in sections. Section one has only one page "1-1" covering safety information, then section two covers specifications and section 3 is about the chassis. All the pages begin with the section number followed by the page number. I haven't run across any pages with links to a the videos you're mentioning. After I've posted enough, I'll be able to post a link and that will help a lot.

bertsmobile1 · Apr 8, 2018

section 7 page 8 brake actuator module

Moonwink · Apr 8, 2018

bertsmobile1, Sorry I'm such a dummy. I finally realized what you meant and found the right pages = Section 7, page 8 (page 118 of the PDF file) of the "2011-2013 TimeCutter SS/MX/ZX Service Manual"

Thank you for pointing out my error. I just watched the "YouTube.com/watch?v=JgZRN-Jn4JE" and "YouTube.com/watch?v=buBEukVT-so" videos about Troubleshooting the Brake Control and Service Bulletin #31 about the issue I'm having. It sure sounds like that's what I need to concentrate on and eliminate that as a cause.

The brake control box levers not hitting their stops by completing their full travel every time could be the cause of my problem. That would be the reason repeated moving the levers in and out finally allows the mower to cut my whole yard - as long as I don't stop!
As soon as I can get out in the yard (rain changing to snow predicted here this evening) to have a look I'll get back say yes or no.

Anyone have access to Service Bulletin #31?
I wish I could transcribe the first video and pictures to go along with it as they point out the purpose of each wire going to the control module.

Toro TimeCutter SS4235 dies when handles are pulled in

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