UN-HEARD of BRIGGS Engine

ILENGINE said:

Until they can put carb or EFI engines on lawnmowers sitting side by side at Walmart for the same price the low end consumer won't elect to pay the extra cost of EFI.

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Yep,
You can tell the blokes who deal with Joe Public on a daily basis and have to justify the repair costs of good quality mowers against the new cost of landfill masquerading as a mower

Bert, did it ever occur to you that the average guy of today's "baby-boomer" generation, is a hell of a lot smarter than what you MIGHT give him credit for, ?? Sure EVERYBODY wants the most bang for their buck, but you say, everybody is just "cheap" ..our kid's generation, and today's generation did NOT grow up in the same world we did, baby-boomers learned a lot of good traits handed down by preceding generations, for instance, if I needed a good quality tool, I sure as hell wouldn't get it at Harbor Fright, UNLESS, I saw it was of halfway decent quality, but only because it would serve it's purpose on a rare occasion, NOT for an every-day depend on tool . I think most B/B's can recognize a quality piece of machinery, or tool, or whatever, as compared to the junk flooding today's markets. We see how piss-poor these machines are made today compared to what Dad and Grandpaw bought back in the day, and recognize the fact, we DON'T wan't to to pay good money, for a low quality item, in other words, B/Bs DON'T mind paying for a top quality machine..... IF, they can AFFORD it ! trouble is, wages have NOT followed the costs of living, therefore the average "Blue-Collar" working guy (home-owner) NOT a Lawn-Service Pro, will buy the junk he can afford, but would buy the top of the line IF, he could afford to, and remember, back in the day, things were built on a reputation of trust and reliability ( only found in the very expensive machines of today ) that were designed to last, and be fixed if a break-down occurred, Hell you even got printed manuals, and some machines even had a simple tool kit ! Today it's all about the bottom line ...MONEY ! it's become a throw-away world ( or re-cycle this junk to make NEW junk) another thing, today's folks aren't into fixing thing's as much as the B/Bs were taught to do, Yes us B/B rs THOUGHT we were giving our kid's a better world some of it IS better, and some of it ... well ... you see what this world has turned into. A lot of fault falls upon OUR shoulders, we've formed today's generation into "I DON'T fix thing's, I just get another NEW one " Quality and trust have become a scarcity these days, much like the desire and ability to "fix" things .

Boobala said:

Bert, did it ever occur to you that the average guy of today's "baby-boomer" generation, is a hell of a lot smarter than what you MIGHT give him credit for, ?? Sure EVERYBODY wants the most bang for their buck, but you say, everybody is just "cheap" ..our kid's generation, and today's generation did NOT grow up in the same world we did, baby-boomers learned a lot of good traits handed down by preceding generations, for instance, if I needed a good quality tool, I sure as hell wouldn't get it at Harbor Fright, UNLESS, I saw it was of halfway decent quality, but only because it would serve it's purpose on a rare occasion, NOT for an every-day depend on tool . I think most B/B's can recognize a quality piece of machinery, or tool, or whatever, as compared to the junk flooding today's markets. We see how piss-poor these machines are made today compared to what Dad and Grandpaw bought back in the day, and recognize the fact, we DON'T wan't to to pay good money, for a low quality item, in other words, B/Bs DON'T mind paying for a top quality machine..... IF, they can AFFORD it ! trouble is, wages have NOT followed the costs of living, therefore the average "Blue-Collar" working guy (home-owner) NOT a Lawn-Service Pro, will buy the junk he can afford, but would buy the top of the line IF, he could afford to, and remember, back in the day, things were built on a reputation of trust and reliability ( only found in the very expensive machines of today ) that were designed to last, and be fixed if a break-down occurred, Hell you even got printed manuals, and some machines even had a simple tool kit ! Today it's all about the bottom line ...MONEY ! it's become a throw-away world ( or re-cycle this junk to make NEW junk) another thing, today's folks aren't into fixing thing's as much as the B/Bs were taught to do, Yes us B/B rs THOUGHT we were giving our kid's a better world some of it IS better, and some of it ... well ... you see what this world has turned into. A lot of fault falls upon OUR shoulders, we've formed today's generation into "I DON'T fix thing's, I just get another NEW one " Quality and trust have become a scarcity these days, much like the desire and ability to "fix" things .

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Boo.
No where did I say stupid. Stupid they are not. Greedy, lazy, selfish and self obsessed yes, stupid no.
If you can afford to buy a property big enough to need a ride on mower then you can afford to buy a decient quality mower for a reasonable price.
I see the same thing happening down here. $ 300 for a night out , fine ; $ 500 for a pair of sunglasses with Paris Hiltons name on the side , good :$ 200 for a t-shirt with some clebrity name tag on the outside , fabulous .
The "we can not afford it" aruement is rubbish.
If there is anything that they think will raise their esteem they will find the money for it.
House sizes have trippled since WWII , like we realy need a house with 4 double bedrooms including walk in robes for all of the high fashion highly overpriced poor quality cloths, an ensuite in each bedroom + a common bathroom on both floors, an indoor & outdoor kitchen big enough for the Red Cross to do disaster relief in, a lounge room with a 10' TV screen and quadrophonic surround sound and a lounge big enough for a horse to sleep on + a theatre room, + a family room + a home office or two.

The very dissapinting thing about all of this is WE created this monster and then Monsters WE CREATED went on to have bigger monsters of their own.

WE dressed our 5 year olds to look like Elvis , or Jagger or Marolyn or Princess Di etc etc etc telling them their value was what they looked like.
WE perfected the art of brand recognition to the point that 10 year olds kill themselves because they do not have the "right brand" of sports shoes to wear to school.
We perfected the art of advertising ( thought control ).
and no it is not that they can not afford it ,'It is because they want to be SEEN as having it all today, right now because I am so great I have everything.
If people could distinguish between junk & quality HF & Walmart would not exist, Sears would be the biggest retailers.
Very few people HAVE to get the absolute lowest possible price.
THEY JUST WANT TO BRAGG ABOUT HOW SMART THEY WERE FOR FINDING THE LOWEST POSSIBLE PRICE, a sick sort of one up man' s ship which totally disregards the effect of their spending on other people.
And it was US our GENERATION who created a board of directors that continued to make cars with killed people because the plastic fuel tank ruptured , rather than to recall the product because the cost of paying out the family of the deceased was cheaper than the cost of replacing the fuel tanks.

What is missing totally is any sort of ETHICS, in business or in personal spending.

Consumers have create the circle of low quality mowers also. The trying to keep up with the Jones has lead to riding mower being replaced every 4.5 years, and pushmowers every 3.5 years So if people are going to buy new every few years, the mower manufacturers have responded with reducing the durability of their mowers to that replacement interval. When Snapper started first selling in Walmart a few years ago, the rear engine riders that they are famous for, was designed to have a life expectancy of 5 years.

I have worked on $5000 Z turns as an example and rolled over damaged atv that might of cost that much when they were new, and people will put $1000 in repairs into an rolled atv before they will spend $500 repairing their lawnmower. If you put a carb engine lawnmower and a EFI lawnmower in walmart and the carb mower is $50 cheaper, a whole herd of walmart shoppers will not spend the extra $50 to get something this is more reliable in the long run, especially since they are going to replace it in about 5 years anyway.

OK Bert, now follow closely...
I NEVER said ...you said, STUPID !
And if you buy a property big enough to need a riding mower, you can afford a decent mower for a reasonable price ! ..... NOT SO !!

When I got my 1st house, I saved, begged and borrowed up to the eyeballs to get it, I OWED EVERYBODY !! I couldn't afford to pay attention, much less buy a mower, it took me forever to get out of debt, I had a $25.00 USED POS push mower to do the lawn I made it last 5 years,
Some folks (like I did ) go head over heels in debt just to buy a house, then can barely meet the bills, Hopefully, their situation improves as mine did.

UNBELIEVEABLE ...... BUT TRUE ! ...I totally, 100%, agree with the rest of your statements !!

One big thing that that brought America to where we are today is the %$#@&@#$@ AND those ^$#@&%#@(&%$# Wall Street Hedge-Fund guys who plotted the whole fiasco and the banks were FORCED to accept people who could NOT afford a house, to give them a mortgage they KNEW , they couldn't afford, so then comes the crunch, and the bottom falls out, homes go into foreclosure, people lose their jobs and have no place to go with kids and pets under arm , except to move BACK in with good ol Mom & Dad ( of course...the GRAND-KIDS are the leveraging tool) WELL it seems these kids WE raised have it pretty damn good in that situation, If they get a another job ( but they're collecting more money on welfare than they would from an under-paying job) so why bother looking for one, just give a pittance to Mom & Dad, do a few chores and keep your money to save for another house...SOMEDAY.. NOPE ! the thinking I see and hear is, I'm nice and cozy here, as long as I'm on welfare I have more money than a job pays, I'll just stay here, do a few things to keep Mom & Dad off my back, and one day when they die, this house will be mine ! MY parents would NEVER put their grand-kids out on the street ! Of course they have money ! welfare pays handsomely, and Mom & Dad have their retirement money they have access to, after all, THEY owe ME ! I didn't ask to be born, it's THEIR fault. So out of guilt feelings or whatever, the cycle goes on, Hopefully with our new Prez, God help him, we can start to get things going back in right direction, MAYBE one day, this country will become home once again, to people of character and integrity, helping each other, working together, and prospering, right now I foresee another revolution or civil war .... IF things don't change ... and soon ! BIG industry tries to increase their "bottom line", they could care less about quality or craftsmanship, how many "kids" today would be proud of their job in one of the "trades" that built this country, trouble is NOBODY wants to be a "blue-collar" and perform physical labor, much easir to hang around a college campus a few years and collect a degree as a hair stylist or PHD in music

YES Bert some of us WISH we could afford a Walker, or Ferris, or Ventrac, or an articulating machine, but we have to pay our bills and support our kids, AND their kids, AND pets, and sometimes their friends, Guess I better see if I can afford a new deck belt for my 1989 Sears ROEBUCK mower out there... maybe my son will mow the yard, !!!!

ILENGINE said:

Consumers have create the circle of low quality mowers also. The trying to keep up with the Jones has lead to riding mower being replaced every 4.5 years, and pushmowers every 3.5 years So if people are going to buy new every few years, the mower manufacturers have responded with reducing the durability of their mowers to that replacement interval. When Snapper started first selling in Walmart a few years ago, the rear engine riders that they are famous for, was designed to have a life expectancy of 5 years.

I have worked on $5000 Z turns as an example and rolled over damaged atv that might of cost that much when they were new, and people will put $1000 in repairs into an rolled atv before they will spend $500 repairing their lawnmower. If you put a carb engine lawnmower and a EFI lawnmower in walmart and the carb mower is $50 cheaper, a whole herd of walmart shoppers will not spend the extra $50 to get something this is more reliable in the long run, especially since they are going to replace it in about 5 years anyway.

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Yep.
Too true.

ILENGINE said:

Consumers have create the circle of low quality mowers also. The trying to keep up with the Jones has lead to riding mower being replaced every 4.5 years, and pushmowers every 3.5 years So if people are going to buy new every few years, the mower manufacturers have responded with reducing the durability of their mowers to that replacement interval. When Snapper started first selling in Walmart a few years ago, the rear engine riders that they are famous for, was designed to have a life expectancy of 5 years.

I have worked on $5000 Z turns as an example and rolled over damaged atv that might of cost that much when they were new, and people will put $1000 in repairs into an rolled atv before they will spend $500 repairing their lawnmower. If you put a carb engine lawnmower and a EFI lawnmower in Walmart and the carb mower is $50 cheaper, a whole herd of Walmart shoppers will not spend the extra $50 to get something this is more reliable in the long run, especially since they are going to replace it in about 5 years anyway.

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I almost agree with you except for who caused this. I say big business did not the consumer. Remember K-Mart. The first big discount store. It started selling the EXACT same product that all other stores sold at a lower price. Choosing a lower profit margin over a larger amount of sales. This was before they had the power to have products made for them at a lower price and cheaper product. Now enters other companies that want a piece of the pie. Wal-Mart back when it was owned by one person was just another discount store that did the same thing. Now, remember they did not have a big enough buying power to make manufacturers change anything yet. But as competition grew and business expanded they started asking the company to produce things for less money so they could make more money on the shared market. The market is getting bigger because more people are finding out you can save money buying the exact same produce ant the discount stores. Now as time goes by they all figure out that manufacturers will do almost anything to increase their market share. Including making lower quality products for the discount chains. And the ball is now rolling downhill and picking up speed. So the public was just reacting to what was a very good idea of selling products cheaper on volume. Now we have this crap stuff being sold as good stuff and most of the general population has no idea that it is made to be sold at a price point and not a quality point. But that is not what really gets me. It is that the quality made products are doing the same thing. Building only to what is expected instead of building the best they can and letting everyone know that quality is why it cost more money. I know for sure that Dell Computers used to build to a quality or better. It must meet this requirement or better. Then they started building it must meet this quality and no better. Now Dell has the highest out of box failure rate. Once again the general public has no idea because everyone now hires companies to increase their star rating by writing bogus ratings.

End of rant.

Yes .
Having The Newest raised my own opinion of my own self worth and make others think I am doing "All Right" so raises my esteem in their eyes as well.

Having "Good" requires others to recognise what "Good" is, something that the brand baggers have no idea about so if they can not recognise I have a superiour machine then will not hold me in as high regard as my neighbour who has this years model.
Most know diddly squat about anything that is not powered by batteries and can be held in one hand because they live in side their minds inside their imaginary world with all their imaginary friends inside their device and the newer the device is the "better" the device is.

AS for buying more than you could afford, I go back to the original statement.
If you can buy a block of land big enough to need a ride on then you can afford a good ride on.
OTOH if you have over reached and put your life & the lives of you family in financial peril then you can not afford to be on that sized block of land.

The first house we bought when we were in college was a dump with 1 cold water tap, holes in the roof & floors, right next to a main railway line that was still running steam trains for freight.
We patched it up, put in hot water then rented out the two main bedrooms while we lived in the smallest room till the house was paid off.
We then sold it to one of the sharers , who still owns it , and bough the second house which was double the size and again had 2 married couples sharing it with us.
The third house we bought was the first time we had a house to ourselves but it was 12 squares, so not what you would call big by any standards, and we still live there.
Now days you can not get a builder to quote on a house of less than 20 squares and the millenials who abuse me for having a priviledged life want to move into a house that is at least 25 squares with brand new appliances, a pool & spar.
These are the people who have never done a days manual labour in their life and want to always have a garage full of brand spanking new tools that they never use so they buy junk in order to always have the newest shinniest mower on the block.

I am always drawn back to a short conversation with a woman bitching that her "darling daughter" could not get a job in Australia and might have to go overseas.
She of course blamed the government and was demmanding that they do something to retain these well educated children in OZ.
She was wearing better than $ 5000, retail worth of cloths every bit of it imported high fashion lables ( don't know about the undies ), carrying an Italian hand bag & driving a European car. She was in a shop buying French dinnerwear & German cutulury.
I suggested that her lifestyle & shopping decisions could very well be the reason why her daughter could not get a job locally and was abused.
Some people never get it.

BlazNT said:

I almost agree with you except for who caused this. I say big business did not the consumer. Remember K-Mart. The first big discount store. It started selling the EXACT same product that all other stores sold at a lower price. Choosing a lower profit margin over a larger amount of sales. This was before they had the power to have products made for them at a lower price and cheaper product. Now enters other companies that want a piece of the pie. Wal-Mart back when it was owned by one person was just another discount store that did the same thing. Now, remember they did not have a big enough buying power to make manufacturers change anything yet. But as competition grew and business expanded they started asking the company to produce things for less money so they could make more money on the shared market. The market is getting bigger because more people are finding out you can save money buying the exact same produce ant the discount stores. Now as time goes by they all figure out that manufacturers will do almost anything to increase their market share. Including making lower quality products for the discount chains. And the ball is now rolling downhill and picking up speed. So the public was just reacting to what was a very good idea of selling products cheaper on volume. Now we have this crap stuff being sold as good stuff and most of the general population has no idea that it is made to be sold at a price point and not a quality point. But that is not what really gets me. It is that the quality made products are doing the same thing. Building only to what is expected instead of building the best they can and letting everyone know that quality is why it cost more money. I know for sure that Dell Computers used to build to a quality or better. It must meet this requirement or better. Then they started building it must meet this quality and no better. Now Dell has the highest out of box failure rate. Once again the general public has no idea because everyone now hires companies to increase their star rating by writing bogus ratings.

End of rant.

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It may of not started with the consumer, but they were and are still part of the problem. Here is something that makes things even worse. Snapper mowers sold through Walmart cannot be warrantied by a Snapper dealer unless that dealer is a signed mass merchant support dealer. I am a mass support dealer and cannot warranty Snapper products outside of Walmart sales, but the Snapper dealer a few miles away cannot warranty the mowers sold at Walmart.

Boobala said:

I was just digging through a huge listing of Briggs TWIN engine parts manuals and stumbled across the info. just got curious, looks like a major headache to me, I know that sometimes folks get carried away and overthink / over-engineer things and I put these engines in that category, it seems to me it's all about the choke system, personally I prefer a separate manual choke. Also ran across some other Briggs ASPI bulletins. Thanks for your reply ILENGINE, appreciate that ...... Boo

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And further research proves my thoughts that this E.F.M. system on these Briggs engines is nothing more than an "engineer" that was trying to save his job, or had too much time on his hands, it's just an UN-necessary type of ELECTRONIC choke ! this fella, managed to fabricate his own "manual-choke" for his machine, ( nice job too! ) Proves the OLD adage about a MANUAL-CHOKE ... if it WORKS ..DON'T ..fix it !

http://www.mytractorforum.com/231-a...failed-electronic-fuel-management-module.html...good article

The bracket, bell-crank, choke linkage and mounting hardware is available at most part's suppliers, they may also have the choke cable needed .......

........... ( B&S P/Ns )