starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol

wpierska

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new solenoid was installed. what could be other causes of current not going through the solenoid? starter switch if so how to test to see if this is the cause? automatic shutoff device while sitting on seat if so how to test? clutch not engaging the starter switch when fully stepped in if so how to test? other possible causes if so how to test?
 

Astevenson8

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
I have to agree that this is likely a safety switch issue. I'm sorry I cannot give you instructions on how to test. I'm sure someone on here can help you there or maybe even has a better solution. Either way, please let us know what the solution was! Thank you. Alan S.
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
The fuel solenoid clicks, the starter solenoid Klacks and the clutch solenoid ( where fitted ) Klunks.
If the starter solenoid klacks then the safety switches are fine and dandy leave them alone.
Following is a procedure to tack back a no crank situation.
If you decide to follow it please do the tests in the order written, there is good reason for this.
Others have their own test proceedures which will also work, just pick one and follow it through to the end then post your results.
Before you start, pull the spark plug & try to rotate the engine by hand.
No use checking the electrics if you have a hydraulic lock, seized engine or jambed belt overloading the stater motor.
Assuming the engine turns freely.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed
I run a secondary ground from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.
 

Regwal

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
bertsmobil1 covered it all for electrical starting problems. The simple culprit is probably a ground. Looking at or checking tightness is not 100% for assuring a good connection. Some have to be broken, cleaned and made again.
 

wpierska

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
QUESTION TO BERTSMOBILE1: I HAVE A 4 WIRE SOLENOID. I COMPLETED STEPS 1 AND 2 BELOW AND BOTH WORKED. BUT IN ITEM 3 BELOW I GOT ZERO VOLTAGE WHEN MEASURING FROM THE WHITE SMALL WIRE (WHICH GOES TO THE SOLENOID) TO THE GROUND ON BATTERY OR TO THE BLACK GROUND SMALL WIRE WITH THE IGNITION KEY ON RUN POSITION. DOES THIS MEAN THE IGNITION SWITCH IS NOT WORKING OR THAT THE WHITE WIRE IS FAULTY? YOU DON'T MENTION BELOW WHETHER THIS IS THE CAUSE OF ZERO VOLTAGE AT THIS TESTING POINT BUT I WOULD GUESS THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IN ITEM 3A BELOW I GET 12.6v FROM BATTERY HOT TERMINAL TO THE BLACK GROUND SMALL WIRE SO THIS WIRE SEEMS TO BE GROUNDING JUST FINE. (BY THE WAY WHEN YOU SAY "solenoid trigger wire" AND "ground trigger wire" I ASSUME YOU MEAN THE TWO SMALL WIRES TO THE SOLENOID WHICH ON MY LAWNMOWER ARE WHITE AND BLACK? I HAVE NOT SEEN THE TERM "TRIGGER WIRE" BEFORE.)

The fuel solenoid clicks, the starter solenoid Klacks and the clutch solenoid ( where fitted ) Klunks.
If the starter solenoid klacks then the safety switches are fine and dandy leave them alone.
Following is a procedure to tack back a no crank situation.
If you decide to follow it please do the tests in the order written, there is good reason for this.
Others have their own test proceedures which will also work, just pick one and follow it through to the end then post your results.
Before you start, pull the spark plug & try to rotate the engine by hand.
No use checking the electrics if you have a hydraulic lock, seized engine or jambed belt overloading the stater motor.
Assuming the engine turns freely.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed
I run a secondary ground from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
A remote starter solenoid is just a relay as designed for Big Arnie.
In fact it is not by definition a solenoid at all but it got called that so the name stuck
Relays have 2 sets of contacts the "switching" and the "switched" which electronic buffs like to use.
To avoid confusion, the switching contacts became the control contacts or trigger contacts, I like trigger because relays are either on or off, much like a bullet.
And yes they are the small wires at the bottom. Every makes uses different colour codes so I never mention colours.
A lot of people get confussed by the feed wire coming off the Hot terminal

Now back to your mower
The white wire should go + 12 V when the ignition switch is in the START position then go open circuit when the key goes back to the RUN position.
Because a circuit has to be a closed loop, you need to measure between the white wire and a known good ground
If the start circuit is working properly you should be able to put one probe in the black wire and the other in the white wire see 12V in the Start position and 0V in the run position.
Some mowers also switch the black ground wire so both wires have to be tested which happens in the latter tests.

If you never see 12 V at the white wire then the start circuit is faulty.
The loop usually goes
Hot terminal > fuse> B on switch > S on switch > PTO ( pass through ) >brake /clutch > trigger terminal >ground
A break any where in the chain and no start

So now you start working your way through the switches.
There are a few ways to do it
I use a short jumper with 2 female terminals to bridge the B ( battery ) and S ( start ) terminals on the ignition switch which saves me turning the key with my toes.
All the other switches get bypassed with more jumpers , one at a time after first checking they are working properly.
Most of the safety switches are double switches.
with the plungers depressed, one side closes and the other side opens.
The closed side is the cranking switch the open side is the magneto cut out switch
If you use jumpers remove the magneto kill wire from the magneto coil because if you accidentially make contact with 12 V even for the briefest period of time the chip in the magneto will be fried.
So if you get to the end, jumpered all of the switches and still no voltage you then start looking for a broken wire between the switches by using longer jumpers from switch to switch.

As you may have noticed , this becomes a rather time consuming process.
I have a box full of jumpers with various ends & different lengths but I still allow 1-2 hours for testing
If you see multiple pins at a plug the flat sides are the pairs being switched ie I + I not -- + --

Briggs put out a nice booklet called the "Repowering Guide " it is available on the web as a free download.
In the back are all of the generic wiring diagrams
 

Astevenson8

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Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Threads
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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
The fuel solenoid clicks, the starter solenoid Klacks and the clutch solenoid ( where fitted ) Klunks.
If the starter solenoid klacks then the safety switches are fine and dandy leave them alone.
Following is a procedure to tack back a no crank situation.
If you decide to follow it please do the tests in the order written, there is good reason for this.
Others have their own test proceedures which will also work, just pick one and follow it through to the end then post your results.
Before you start, pull the spark plug & try to rotate the engine by hand.
No use checking the electrics if you have a hydraulic lock, seized engine or jambed belt overloading the stater motor.
Assuming the engine turns freely.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed
I run a secondary ground from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.

Excellent instructions!
 

wpierska

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Joined
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Threads
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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
To bertsmobile1: Thank you very much for all of the advice that you have given me and the many others who have read your replies to my questions. Your advice has been the best, most thorough, educational and interesting that I have ever received on problems of repairing or replacing defective operating equipment. I am most grateful for it. Working at my repair during my part time took quite a while but now my riding mower works just fine. I followed your step by step approach systematically and finally found the solution was a failure in my PTO connections. It was not in the solenoid or starter switch as I had imaged and the testing steps you gave me eliminated them from being the cause. Indeed, I learned a great deal about how the electronics on a mower works and the sequence of devices that are in the line of current flow from the point of turning the starter switch to turning over the motor. Again, thank you very much. wpierska
 

mhavanti

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  • / starter solenoid clicks but will not send current to starter motor even after new sol
Wpiersta,

The Bert is the best and listen to his instructions closely as he don't play.

Thanks Bert for jumping in.

Max
 
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