Starter, Solenoid, Safety Switch, or something else?

Received the key to my freebie Murray mower (model 465306X8B with B&S V-twin 406677 type 0344E1) today and gave it a try. Of course it didn't crank. Help me diagnose the problem. I'm not much of a mechanic and resort to the internet for education.
Background: mower had been sitting a few years when I picked it up. Hadn't run in a couple of years, if I recall. Did all the engine maintaince while waiting on key to arrive (cleaned carb, new plugs, fuel filter, cleaned gas tank, changed oil and filter, new air filter).

Had 2012 battery charged. O'Reilly's said it charged fine. I read 12v on my radioshack voltage meter (needle read out, not digital). First time attempting to start it made a clicking noise similar to the way a car sounds when the battery is mostly dead and it won't turn starter over. Rapped on starter a few times with hammer, but no change. You can hear the clicking in the video below.

https://vimeo.com/220347758

Connected up jumpers to car and no difference.
Suspected the starter only because the craigslist ad said it might need a new one. Watched a few videos. Decided to check the solenoid. Removed solenoid, cleaned it up, sanded down base for good ground, replaced. Checked solenoid per this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsvJMnpQBas Didn't get any reading on meter. Battery still at 12v. According to the video, the problem could be one of many safety switches.

How would you proceed; replace solenoid, rebuild starter (I couldn't even figure how to remove it), something else, both?

This procedure will help pinpoint the cause. First thing I would check is the battery ground wire, where it attaches to the chassis. After making sure the connection is clean and tight, start with the procedure.



I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.

Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things:

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions. Ahem.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and test/verify everything.

First you need to check every wire and connection, making sure they are not dirty, corroded, broken or loose. *Failure to do this can lead to inaccurate reading or tests down the road.

Remember, I cannot see what you are doing. You are the eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools I will ask you to use are a test light and a multimeter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, make sure the parking brake is engaged and the PTO switch is in the off position. Physically remove the negative battery cable first and then the positive battery cable and clean both the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush. Reinstall cables after cleaning starting with the positive first and then the negative. Next, turn the key to the run position, check all fuses with a grounded test light should light on both sides of fuse. Check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Believe it or not, this first step will take the most amount of time, usually around five minutes and the rest of the steps can be accomplished in under a minute.

Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show battery voltage on a meter at all times.

Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring. You should have battery voltage on this small solenoid wire when the key switch is held in the start position.

Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). You should have battery voltage on this terminal when the key is held in the start position.

Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). You should have battery voltage during this test.

Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery. Just like the battery, make sure connections are clean and tight. Very Important!

This procedure is a simple starting point and there is more to it so after you have gone through each of the above steps, let me know what happened when you performed each test. At that point I will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are the eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible. Some lawnmowers use a relay in the starter control circuit so keep that in mind.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. I prefer to use voltage drop tests but some people get too confused over this subject so in an effort to keep it simple, for now, just follow the procedure and report back with your findings.

Rivets said:

This procedure will help pinpoint the cause. First thing I would check is the battery ground wire, where it attaches to the chassis. After making sure the connection is clean and tight, start with the procedure.

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Thanks for the reply and suggestion. Just curious, did you listen to the clicking in the video that I posted above?

Sorry, don't do videos. Experience has taught me that clicking in the starting system is caused by a lose of voltage somewhere in the system. Need to find a bad component or loose connection.

When you hear the click sound so you have 12v to the starter. Be aware that by rapping the starter a few times with a hammer almost guaranteed that if you didn't need a starter before you do now, because you have broken the permanent magnets inside the housing, and they are no jamming the armature.

ILENGINE said:

When you hear the click sound so you have 12v to the starter. Be aware that by rapping the starter a few times with a hammer almost guaranteed that if you didn't need a starter before you do now, because you have broken the permanent magnets inside the housing, and they are no jamming the armature.

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Thanks. I won't do that ever again.

Rivets said:

Sorry, don't do videos. Experience has taught me that clicking in the starting system is caused by a lose of voltage somewhere in the system. Need to find a bad component or loose connection.

Click to expand...

ILENGINE said:

When you hear the click sound so you have 12v to the starter. Be aware that by rapping the starter a few times with a hammer almost guaranteed that if you didn't need a starter before you do now, because you have broken the permanent magnets inside the housing, and they are no jamming the armature.

Click to expand...

LarryJohnson said:

Thanks. I won't do that ever again.

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Just to update. Brought the old battery to another O'Reilly's to charge again, but they said it was no good, whereas the first store said otherwise. Bought a new battery. Installed new battery and new starter solenoid (just because). Did a voltage test (as shown in MetalInMotionShop's video above) to confirm that power was getting past the new solenoid and that all safety switches were working. Voltage confirmed at solenoid exit pole. However, didn't get voltage at starter when tested so did more research on testing starter. Connected jumpers from new batery directly to starter and wouldn't spin. (Wondered why no one on forum suggested this test method.) Removed heat shield around starter so it could be removed. Had to track down extra long t40 torx for removal. Opened up starter and confirmed broken magnets. Rapped on it a few times like before to see if I caused the damage. Didn't break any magnets. Previous owner must have been right, needed a new starter. Ordered new starter from Jack's. Going to push mow the lawn, hopefully one last time.

If you would have followed the procedure I posted, you would have gotten the same results, a bad starter. Questioning the techs on this site and telling us videos and parts stores are better than us will ensure you get no help in the future. Glad to be of help, OH I was any!

Rivets said:

If you would have followed the procedure I posted, you would have gotten the same results, a bad starter. Questioning the techs on this site and telling us videos and parts stores are better than us will ensure you get no help in the future. Glad to be of help, OH I was any!

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Gosh Rivets, sorry you misinterpreted my post and sorry your feelings were hurt. Let me explain. I never said Techs were wrong or Parts stores are better than any of you Techs. All I said was that the first O'Reilly's store told me my battery was good, the second O'Reilly's said it wasn't. Therefore, that means my earlier attempts to start the mower was with a bad battery. Also, it means you can't believe the parts stores.

I did thank you for posting your procedure and I read through it. I even followed much of it. I went through and checked connections, cleaned a few and replaced the 15amp inline fuse that a previous owner completely removed. As you know from my first post, my voltmeter isn't digital and I'm not an experience mechanic, so I wasn't certain how to perform some of the voltage checks in your procedure and I didn't want to wait for a reply from you explaining how to do so. Even after removing the starter and testing it off the mower with cables atttached directly to it and seeing it not spin, I wasn't certain that the starter was broke (because I've never done this before) until I disassembled it and saw broken magnets. Again, the first starter I've ever seen disassembled.

I still wonder why no one on this forum suggested to test the starter on the mower with cables attached directly to it (or by making a connection across the solenoid poles with a screw driver). Does this test damage a good starter, or battery?

Which O'Reilly store do you believe? One said good, one said bad; don't you now need to go to a third O'Reilly's to get a majority opinion? Oops, too late; you may have just thrown away a good battery.

Installed new battery and new starter solenoid (just because). Did a voltage test (as shown in MetalInMotionShop's video above) to confirm that power was getting past the new solenoid and that all safety switches were working. Voltage confirmed at solenoid exit pole. However, didn't get voltage at starter when tested so did more research on testing starter.

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In bold is the reason why no one suggested that you test the starter; according to you, no voltage was getting to it. Jumping the starter would have been another test of the solenoid.