Toro Timesaver 3200 16hp Toro engine failure

MTBerJim

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Sooooo 4 years ago I bought the above ZT for my .4 acre yard. The motor is shot already, knocks like you can't believe and it burns more oil than gas. The mower itself isn't to bad the bagger attachment is well--ok. If I had it to do again I would look at another manufacturer, but that's not the case.

Has anyone swapped a motor on one of these Toros? I'm looking at the 19hp B&S and am also considering the 22hp Predator engine from Harbor Freight. I'm curious to know what if any modifications will have to be made to the mower and what problems you ran into along the way.

Any comments, suggestions you may have would be appreciated. I've been reading the reviews on both engines and it seems like this is a pretty common occurrence.

Thanks in advance, Jim D.
 

bertsmobile1

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In most cases engine with the same PTO shaft diameter and same engine configuration will have the same mounting holes.
Easy peasy to swap the engines.
A little more difficult to hook up the wires.
If you go with the same brand of engine this will be easier
So measure your shaft ( 1' or 1 1/8" ) the go to Small Engine supplies or Small Engine Warehouse and get a superceeded or over ordered engine.
You can go bigger that won't hurt and some times a much larger engine will be a lot cheaper than the same size engine.
Just remember a big engine will not go any faster, it will not bog down as much but will use more fuel.

As for HF, preditor could not be a better name for the engine , or perhaps parrasite would be a a little better.
A reasonable quality engine with no after sales support and no supply chain for spares sucking the life out of local manufacturers but using them to cover then high cost low profit side of spares supplies.
 

Rivets

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I'm going to start this post by saying I'm a Toro guy for 40+ years, I am biased and a little leery about this post. First, Toro to my knowledge does not make a timesaver 3200, your profile says you own a TimeMaster or do you mean a timeCutter? Second, you say the engine knocks, how long has this been happening? Is it an ignition knock or mechanical knock? If you have a Timecutter, it has a 3 year warranty, did you ever had this condition looked at? The only time I have seen any major problems with this engine, is when it has not been serviced properly? I'm not saying that your Loncin (you call it Toro) engine of this size couldn't be a lemon, but it would be my first one which did not result from a poor maintenance schedule. I would like to hear exactly what your problem is with this engine, so when you rip me a new one, please include the model and serial numbers for you unit. With this info I will know exactly which unit you have and better understand your problem.
 

MTBerJim

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Thanks Bert, the wiring doesn't scare me. I've install a few car stereos in my years and even if it's over my head my son-in-law is an electrician and wiring savant.

From the reviews I've from the people replacing motors the bolt patterns and shaft diameters/lengths are the same from engines of similar size. The B&S only has a 9 volt alternator, My Timecutter doesn't have heated seat or refrigerated cup holders or even lights, it only has to keep the battery charged so I'm thinking it should be fine. It also includes a fuel pump. The muffler will have to be changed, but I work in a fabrication shop so I can handle that easily.

The 2 reasons I was considering the HF engine was #1 twin cylinders and more HP, #2 the oil filter is a readily available walk into any auto parts and take it off the shelf for $4.00. The B&S looks to have it's own oil filter, the best I've seen that one for was $10.00. The F*%king Toro oil filter was $16.00, But I digress. I'm doing 2 oil/filter changes per year and when you consider the cost of the filter and synthetic oil----it adds up.

I'm aware the extra HP doesn't mean going faster, "It's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast"!
Sorry can't tell you how long I've been waiting to use that, it's a TV ad John Deere has been running a couple of yrs now.

The town here doesn't pick up grass clippings and "suggests"' residents mulch when they mow, my law is full and thick. I typically mow 2x weekly to cope with that. The 16hp Toro POS would bog down mowing, so the additional power would be a good thing. I'm using a 22" push mower now bc I can't stand the knocking and the blue smoke, it takes 2 1/2hrs to mow, I tell myself it's good exercise , but it's really getting old and I do have other things I need to do.

I guess it's time to make a decision and buy a motor and work out any of the issues the crop up along the way. At this point I'm inclined to go w/ the B&S.

Thanks again for the input.
 

cpurvis

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All mowers are junk; some just more so than others.

I would definitely avoid the Harbor Freight engine. Where would you go for parts, even something simple like an air filter or a gasket unless the engine an exact copy of a Honda, Briggs, Kawasaki or Kohler, and they never are. Forget about a carburetor or a coil.

I bought a water pump with a China-made Honda knock-off engine. Within the first dozen starts, the recoil mechanism broke. Now I'm down to wrapping its rope around the hub on the crankshaft, just like a 1940's Clinton engine. Stay away from these dirt cheap engines, but if you decide to go that route, buy two. Then you'll have an extra one to cannibalize for parts.
 

MTBerJim

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Re: Toro TimeCUTTER 3200 16hp Toro engine failure

I'm going to start this post by saying I'm a Toro guy for 40+ years, I am biased and a little leery about this post. First, Toro to my knowledge does not make a timesaver 3200, your profile says you own a TimeMaster or do you mean a timeCutter? Second, you say the engine knocks, how long has this been happening? Is it an ignition knock or mechanical knock? If you have a Timecutter, it has a 3 year warranty, did you ever had this condition looked at? The only time I have seen any major problems with this engine, is when it has not been serviced properly? I'm not saying that your Loncin (you call it Toro) engine of this size couldn't be a lemon, but it would be my first one which did not result from a poor maintenance schedule. I would like to hear exactly what your problem is with this engine, so when you rip me a new one, please include the model and serial numbers for you unit. With this info I will know exactly which unit you have and better understand your problem.

Really? you couldn't figure out I meant Timecutter but made a mistake and typed timesaver? really? I mean it's only in my profile with the model #. It's time to pull ur head out of ur rectum, toro is making junk these days------just like everyone else.

This the 1st yr when the Chinese made toro engine was the only option for this machine, it only had a 2yr warranty then.

Bias would be an understatement, I'd say more like fanboy. I bought the HR counter when I ordered the machine so I could keep track of the usage. Replaced the $16 dollar Toro oil filter at 1st oil change and filled it with full synthetic 10-30 @ 5hrs just like the owners manual suggests, oh wait the only wanted the oil changed not the $16 oil filter. I was doing 2 complete oil changes every season $16 dollar oil filter and 10-30 full synthetic oil.

Right AFTER the 2 year mark I did notice the oil consumption increasing started seeing a light blue puff on start up, by the start of last season I was adding oil every time I used it last year, it was already getting loud. Mid season last year I was mowing and it died, cranked it over of was getting compression out of the carburetor, valves where shot, dragged the junk into the back of my pickup and brought it in for service. They confirmed when I already knew the motor was on it's way out. Cost me $350 for the parts and labor for the valve train rebuild, they also changed the filter and oil I'd just changed the week b4.

So does this meet ur approval now? Could it be possible another company is more concerned with profit then they are about providing a quality product?
 

Rivets

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Some how I knew that I would get slammed by you, but thought I would post anyway. If you would have worked with your dealer and Toro when you first started seeing problems, my experience is you would not have had to pay much or anything. This is even if it is just out of warranty. I suspect that when you finally went in, you had a chip on your shoulder and the dealer figured he would not please you no matter what he did. I also see you changed your profile to make it look like I can't read. Sorry, but I've been around the block more than once and have dealt with people like you before. Seeing you do that makes me question even more if you are telling us the whole truth, I'll bet there are a few things left out. My rant is over and I'm not going to get anywhere with you, so I'll leave you to your problem. Good luck to both you and the next poor dealer you go to, you'll both need it.
 

MTBerJim

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Some how I knew that I would get slammed by you, but thought I would post anyway. If you would have worked with your dealer and Toro when you first started seeing problems, my experience is you would not have had to pay much or anything. This is even if it is just out of warranty. I suspect that when you finally went in, you had a chip on your shoulder and the dealer figured he would not please you no matter what he did. I also see you changed your profile to make it look like I can't read. Sorry, but I've been around the block more than once and have dealt with people like you before. Seeing you do that makes me question even more if you are telling us the whole truth, I'll bet there are a few things left out. My rant is over and I'm not going to get anywhere with you, so I'll leave you to your problem. Good luck to both you and the next poor dealer you go to, you'll both need it.

WOW, just WOW. Never changed my profile--maybe it's time for new glasses?

Honestly, you prequalified your comments by saying I'll probably get slammed for this--but. Let me guess you can't go to the gas station and fill up ur car and get a cup of coffee without ending up in an argument with someone?
If you think my reply was a "slam" you'd never be able to order a sandwich in a NYC deli without being reduced to tears.

I did contact my dealer, again it was right after the 2 year mark, they'd be happy to pick up my mower and go to bat w/ Toro for me. It would only cost $100 to send the driver and trailer, no guaranties anything would be covered by Toro, any exploratory labor they did would be at my cost. Sent Toro a letter explaining my problem, the short version was, it's passed warranty period--tuff ****.

I've been around the block a few times myself and learned the honey verses vinegar thing also. I'm not the one that went out of my way to start an argument, that was you.
I'm sure you have dealt with people like me many times. People who spent hard earned money and where expecting a minim of value for the money we spent. Those are the people we are, you seem to have a problem with those people.
In 40 years you never saw a defect from the manufacture? From the guy doing a service on the equipment? It's always something the owner did, is that what you would have us believe?

If that's bullshit you are trying to sell, it's not me that has the credibility problem, it's you.

Moving forward and out of crazy town, I ordered the B&S 19hp engine today. Believe it or not it's something Lowe's carries, I should have it the coming week. I know I should have tried to deal w/ someone local but after the runaround I got from the dealer last time out, I'm pretty gun-shy about dealing with mom and pop stores. If I have a problem with it and for some reason I can't get this to work at all, Lowes will take it back minus a 15% special order fee.

If anyone is interested I'll keep you up to date on this project and that issues I run into, what I did to resolve them---- I'll ever post some pix, if I can figure out how.

Thanks again to everyone and yes I do mean everyone for the input and for keeping this entertaining.

Jim D.
 

stevestd

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I've have a 19HP Kawasaki for 10 years with no problems at all. I like Japanese build quality, especially in motorbikes.
 

MTBerJim

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I've have a 19HP Kawasaki for 10 years with no problems at all. I like Japanese build quality, especially in motorbikes.

I agree with you Steve, I have both a Toyota and a Honda in my driveway. Spent 10 years as a auto tech, learned my lesson then.

As far as small engines the best one I ever owned was an old B&S in was I think 13hp, maybe 11hp on a John Deere riding mower RX-70, it was built in the 70's. I bought it used replaced the spindle bearings and all 4 tires. I sold it for what I paid 3 years later when I bought this Toro. The oil was still honey colored when I sold it, hindsight is 20/20.

I bought a cheap pressure washer from Home Depot 8 years ago now, has a Subaru engine on it, always starts on the 1st pull, I change the oil in the beginning of the season and I've changed the spark plug maybe 2x. It's a great little engine.
 
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