Ferris H2222K Hydro trans.

Rob47

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Greetings Ferris Fans, I bought this mower used from a non-profit organization I used to work for. My first repair I did to it was to weld up the crack in the oil tank that had a slow leak. This leaves me to believe the transmission had been run low on oil in its previous life.
For all the time I have used the mower, it has made noise going forward whereas in reverse it does not make noise. This condition has not changed. At a contract job I have mowing, there are some slight hills where the engine has enough power but the trans acts like it is slipping. So far I have lived with it. Now, with the grass cutting season being at a standstill I am doing a lot of maintenance and repairs that will be called long-term fixes, meaning I am not looking to do band-aid repairs. I would like to know if any members have overhauled the hydro unit, if so where they got parts and advice of what to look for. In my former employment at the non-profit I pulled the top plate off to replace the shaft seal under the cooling fan and also one of the side seals. I did not go deeper into it at the time but am ready to do that now IF I could obtain guidance and a parts source. Last year there was some concern about what oil to use in the hydro, one mower shop mechanic said to use 20-50 wt. though that is not listed on the decal. I went ahead and used that weight oil last year. He told me that in some of them, noise was not a cause for alarm, so I did not pursue it at the time.
Since I have spent my adult life in auto repair - last 21 years in Honda cars - and fixing a lot of other mechanical stuff, I feel I have the skills to do this job unless there are specialty tools needed.
I am anxious to hear from you fellows in the forum... by the way; I did not go further into the trans at that time because I had no idea how this thing worked by looking at the moveable plate.
Rob H2222K Serial #7163

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bertsmobile1

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:welcome:

Only if you can tell me where to get parts for my motorcycle

On a serious note, if you have been in the auto trade for years I should not have to tell you about, , , , , , , ,
MAKE, MODEL NUMBER and Year.

Apart from seals which are std items the most common form of failure is scoring between one of the piston blocks and the base as there is no seal
Less common is wear between the pistons & block, again there is no seal.
A customer did take his to work & got the block & base lapped together but they need to be flat to 0.0001"
Some parts are available some are not as a lot of makers have gone out of business.
The other thing to remember is if there is no filler & drain your unit was made in a clean room and it intollerant to the tiniest amounts of the finest dust.
Ones with external oil filters and top up plugs are designed to tolerate much higher levels of crud in the oil.

They are all the same, close fitting pistons that run on a face cam on end in a cylinder with cross drilled holes so the piston both pumps & is the valve.
The other end of the cylinder hole goes over a plate with holes in it which controls the direction of the oil flow.
There is no seal between the two so wear eventually causes them to leak pressure thus you go nowhere.
 

reynoldston

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The transmission on mine has always made noise from day one, but it never slips. With nothing to compare it with, I always took this noise as normal seeing I bough it new. Also I don't know how much noise yours is making?
 

Rob47

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The transmission on mine has always made noise from day one, but it never slips. With nothing to compare it with, I always took this noise as normal seeing I bough it new. Also I don't know how much noise yours is making?


Thanks for answering my post. My unit whines, not a sound I would equate with internal mechanical parts fighting with each other. It also does not want to go up-hill - meaning a gradual slope nothing too steep. I have run 20-50 multi grade motor oil in it by the recommendation of a mower mechanic who knew about the Ferris hydro. Mine is about a 1995-6 model year as best as I can tell.
Rob
 

Rob47

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Bert, Tell me the make of your cycle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for what you are telling me here about the hydro unit. Would you be able to take one of those photos I posted and put some pointers and arrows to the parts you are naming ? From the depth I was in this before when I replaced the top seal, can I get to the parts you are talking about ? I have access to a surface plate at a friends shop that I could use >>> putting some 600 wet/dry sand paper (finish with 1000 grit) on and lap the two parts in order to create a better fit. However, if this is a futile exercise I won't bother digging into it and just choose to use it as it is. [my initial hope was to look inside the unit and see obvious galling or wear marks that could be fixed either with lapping or new parts. ]
This time around I am going after all the bearings and bushings in an attempt to remove all the unnecessary noise from the machine, and the trans is part of that effort.
  • The PTO clutch assembly I took apart and installed new bearings in it.
  • This unit does have an oil filter that was changed last year.
  • I am running 20-50wt engine oil not tractor hydraulic fluid. Is that any concern ?
  • This unit does not have an ID tag on it. Just a number stamped in the bottom of the casting. Would I need to take the side cover plates off the hydro unit in order to get into the area where critical clearances are located?



Only if you can tell me where to get parts for my motorcycle

On a serious note, if you have been in the auto trade for years I should not have to tell you about, , , , , , , ,
MAKE, MODEL NUMBER and Year.

Apart from seals which are std items the most common form of failure is scoring between one of the piston blocks and the base as there is no seal
Less common is wear between the pistons & block, again there is no seal.
A customer did take his to work & got the block & base lapped together but they need to be flat to 0.0001"
Some parts are available some are not as a lot of makers have gone out of business.
The other thing to remember is if there is no filler & drain your unit was made in a clean room and it intollerant to the tiniest amounts of the finest dust.
Ones with external oil filters and top up plugs are designed to tolerate much higher levels of crud in the oil.

They are all the same, close fitting pistons that run on a face cam on end in a cylinder with cross drilled holes so the piston both pumps & is the valve.
The other end of the cylinder hole goes over a plate with holes in it which controls the direction of the oil flow.
There is no seal between the two so wear eventually causes them to leak pressure thus you go nowhere.[/QUOTE]
 

reynoldston

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The transmission on mine has always made noise from day one, but it never slips. With nothing to compare it with, I always took this noise as normal seeing I bough it new. Also I don't know how much noise yours is making?


Thanks for answering my post. My unit whines, not a sound I would equate with internal mechanical parts fighting with each other. It also does not want to go up-hill - meaning a gradual slope nothing too steep. I have run 20-50 multi grade motor oil in it by the recommendation of a mower mechanic who knew about the Ferris hydro. M ine is about a 1995-6 model year as best as I can tell.
Rob

Yes that is how I would describe the noise mine makes, it whines. Bought mine new in 2000 and the noise stays the same as it always has so I just thought it was a normal noise. But mines doesn't slip and the wheels will spin if the hill is too steep forward or reverse. I just rise the deck a little and it will go up a steep hill without any problems seeing it puts all the weight on the drive tires. I never had one apart so I can't help there. Yes it dose sound like you have something wrong. To replace that mower with the same model now is over 10,000 dollars so its will worth fixing. Hope you the best of luck with your repairs:thumbsup:
 

bertsmobile1

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No photo editing on this computer.
This is the internet computer so has only internet specific applications on it .

The round thing on the input shaft is the pump block and the things that go between it and the ring that moves left right are the pumping pistons.
They should lift out as a unit.
Be careful as each piston has a spring behind it and some are quite strong so will go flying across the shop & down the hole that leads to the parallel universe where all the unavailabe bits seem to go.
When removed you will see holes underneath where the oil flows.
I have not pulled down the particular pump you are looking at but once apart it will be obvious.
Your pump should only flow in one direction as the motors have to be able to move in opposite directions so the direction of rotation control will be on the motors.
The finish on the underside is a lot finer than 600 grit and is genrally polished with diamond paste to a mirror finish.
2000 grit would be the coarest you could use as the pump only moves a tiny amount of oil at quite high pressure.
Again it will be obvious when you are looking at the guts, not the hat.
 

Rob47

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No photo editing on this computer.

Bert, Let me work over a photo with arrows and colors and send it back in hopes of determining which pieces you are calling what. This way you can make a comment as it relates to the particular arrow or colored line in the photo.
Rob
 

Rob47

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Yes that is how I would describe the noise mine makes, it whines. Bought mine new in 2000 and the noise stays the same as it always has so I just thought it was a normal noise.

Thanks for letting me know yours makes noise too. I am thinking of at least looking inside before I put it back together. Pulling this thing out and apart is something I don't want to make a career out of !
 

Rob47

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Perhaps you could tell me more in regards to the arrows in the photo - what they are called and what they do. Today I am going to pull the cover off and look for wear or something that would cause the noise in the unit and the lack of power to go up-hill - small grade in my opinion.
The two stars are covering an area I have not yet been into. Is there a gear set in there or a planetary type gear set in there under those two stars ?
I do appreciate your help in this. It seems this unit is black magic otherwise there would be more who jump in this conversation. :<)
Rob
Where are the springs you speak of ?
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