Repairs Need help--starter electrical problem

ntp

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Have a mid 90's 14hp Regent that has a start problem.Mower had been running great. Went out to start it the other day and nothing. No click or any kind of a sound. So far I have done the following:
Have fully charged battery
Brake is pressed down all the way
Tried two different key switches
Have power to one side of the solenoid
Jumped the two terminals on the solenoid
Checked the two switches under the tractor---one open the other closed, as they should be
Jumped seat switch
No voltage to the starter with the key switch in the start position
What am I missing? Don't know what to check next. I doubt it is a open wire in the harness.
 

mechanic mark

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Check solenoid etc. by hand & visually for corrosion, rust, etc. making sure you have a good ground. Post 7 digit Simplicity model number.
 

ntp

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Model 1692354 SN 62189 I also tried a jumper from the negative terminal to a bolt on the tractor. I can try cleaning the various terminals. As I had mentioned, it ran great before this.
 

Rivets

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Here is procedure I recommend to help solve the problem.



I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.

Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things:

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions. Ahem.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and test/verify everything.

Remember, I cannot see what you are doing. You are the eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools I will ask you to use are a test light and a multimeter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, make sure the parking brake is engaged and the PTO switch is in the off position. Physically remove the negative battery cable first and then the positive battery cable and clean both the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush. Reinstall cables after cleaning starting with the positive first and then the negative. Next, turn the key to the run position, check all fuses with a grounded test light should light on both sides of fuse. Check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Believe it or not, this first step will take the most amount of time, usually around five minutes and the rest of the steps can be accomplished in under a minute.

Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show battery voltage on a meter at all times.

Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring. You should have battery voltage on this small solenoid wire when the key switch is held in the start position.

Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). You should have battery voltage on this terminal when the key is held in the start position.

Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). You should have battery voltage during this test.

Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery. Just like the battery, make sure connections are clean and tight. Very Important!

This procedure is a simple starting point and there is more to it so after you have gone through each of the above steps, let me know what happened when you performed each test. At that point I will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are the eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible. Some lawnmowers use a relay in the starter control circuit so keep that in mind.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. I prefer to use voltage drop tests but some people get too confused over this subject so in an effort to keep it simple, for now, just follow the procedure and report back with your findings.
 

ntp

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Rivets, thanks for the info you provided. First off,I have around $200,000 worth of tools (yes, that is 220k) and about a dozen multimeters, so I'm set there. Now to answer your questions
1. Parking brake is engaged (also tried with brake pedal pushed as far as it would go.
2. PTO is off--cleaned terminals (they looked good) no fuses on tractor--uses a circuit breaker which tested good. battery voltage is 12+.
3. Has 12+ volts to solenoid large terminal.
4. Solenoid has two smaller wires, the yellow shows 12+ volts The small black wire shows zero with the brake depressed and key switch in the start position
5. Tested with two switches and also the PTO switch from a known good Simplicity tractors
6. There are 2 switches mid tractor underneath and one tested good normally open and the other tested good normally closed
7. Checked ground and all is good
It appears I'm not getting power to the solenoid from the key switch.I also tried jumping out the two power terminals on the solenoid, with no power to the starter

Tractor had been running flawlessly. When I tried to start it up the other day, nothing. I had asked on an earlier post as to where I could get a schematic showing the various colors of the wires and where they go to.. Needless to say, I'm stumped. Any more ideas as to what should be checked?
 

BlazNT

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You solenoid has four connections. One from the battery 12v. One to the starter 0v. One from key switch 0v. One to ground ground.
Turn key to start then you solenoid has from battery 12v / to starter 12v / 12v from key switch and ground.
If all that is working and starter is not spinning the starter is bad.
 

ntp

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Starter works fine when jumped directly to battery. I'm not getting voltage to energize the solenoid. Note, I tried two different switches from working tractors, so I can rule starter switch out.
 

Rivets

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Double check your key switches, are all the terminals on your key switches exactly the same? They may have the same look, but not operating the same. Each terminal will have a letter on it, S=start, M=magneto, B=battery, etc. Simplicity has change switches even in the same model. Second, run a jumper directly from the + Battery terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid which is connected to the key switch. If the starter spins over, you have a problem with the key switch or one of the safety switches. If the starter does not spin, you either have a bad ground leaving the solenoid or the solenoid is bad.
 

BlazNT

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Starter works fine when jumped directly to battery. I'm not getting voltage to energize the solenoid. Note, I tried two different switches from working tractors, so I can rule starter switch out.

The switch is what gives the solenoid power a long with the safety switches.
 
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