Hustler service bulletin #538 date issued 4-25-2016 and Kohler service bulletin #338, DATE ISSUED 5-1-2015. Kohler knew for 1 year that there was an issue. 1 YEAR! Kohler left Hustler and all other OEM'S in dark about there problem. Bulletin says that is a case by case issue and no action is required unless there's an issue. From what I've seen, ALL engine's built BEFORE 5-1-2015 should be checked. After that date I would hope they started checking as engines were being assembled.
Kohler casting flaw causes motor to stall, run rough.
- Thread starter Dpmulvan
- Start date
Instead of addressing the issue which would cost Kohler $$$ Their letting these motors get sold leaving the consumer to sort it out. Typical screw the customer attitude that happens so often these days.
bertsmobile1
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Well you are a production engineer with special experience is quality control are you ?
The errant casting fin could be due to a problem with one of the moulds on a 100 mould casting machine most of which were picked up at the factory.
While is is a bummer whan it happens to you it is a cost thing.
Honda had the best quality control but Joe public will not pay the extra $ 500 that the better quality added to the price tag.
So yes it is a dollar thing and some one at Kohler had a long meeting with some one at Hustler and decided upon the course of actions to be followed.
Obviously it is a random problem affecting only a few engines and covered by warantee.
Oft in cases like this Hustler will get an extended warantee out of Kohler so they can sell their mowere with a longer engine warantee than their compeitiors.
In a perfect world this would not happen but in a perfect world you would happily pay double what you did for your mower so every one can be checked and will be perfect.
But this is not a prfect world, it is a commercial world most factories in the "West" are only marginally profitable at best and that profit get squeezed every year.
COld comfort for you and you are quite justifiably cranky but that looks to be more a problem generated by the dealer than the company.
Remember you are Hustlers customer, you bought Hustler mower, you are not Kohlers customer they did not sell the engine to you they sold it to Hustler.
Kohler have a big waranttee department but they do not talk to Joe Public, they will read your letters and emails but don;t expect a tech to spend $ 200 worth of his time talking to a person from whome Kohler made $ 50 profit.
They will happily read and file and even action something in writing becuse that is fast and cost efficient.
Back in your first post you might note I suggested you cantact Kohler in writing on paper or email.
The errant casting fin could be due to a problem with one of the moulds on a 100 mould casting machine most of which were picked up at the factory.
While is is a bummer whan it happens to you it is a cost thing.
Honda had the best quality control but Joe public will not pay the extra $ 500 that the better quality added to the price tag.
So yes it is a dollar thing and some one at Kohler had a long meeting with some one at Hustler and decided upon the course of actions to be followed.
Obviously it is a random problem affecting only a few engines and covered by warantee.
Oft in cases like this Hustler will get an extended warantee out of Kohler so they can sell their mowere with a longer engine warantee than their compeitiors.
In a perfect world this would not happen but in a perfect world you would happily pay double what you did for your mower so every one can be checked and will be perfect.
But this is not a prfect world, it is a commercial world most factories in the "West" are only marginally profitable at best and that profit get squeezed every year.
COld comfort for you and you are quite justifiably cranky but that looks to be more a problem generated by the dealer than the company.
Remember you are Hustlers customer, you bought Hustler mower, you are not Kohlers customer they did not sell the engine to you they sold it to Hustler.
Kohler have a big waranttee department but they do not talk to Joe Public, they will read your letters and emails but don;t expect a tech to spend $ 200 worth of his time talking to a person from whome Kohler made $ 50 profit.
They will happily read and file and even action something in writing becuse that is fast and cost efficient.
Back in your first post you might note I suggested you cantact Kohler in writing on paper or email.
Your condescending attitude needs an adjustment.
bertsmobile1
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No I have just run a few foundries in a previous life and was responsible for QC at another plant, so I know how things work.
The biggest casting machine I ran had 140 moulds on it.
People have the warm & cosy vision in theri heads of a couple of blokes in leather aprons & spats with a ladle on a long rod.
The machine poured 3 tons of aluminium an hour and had two rotary melting furnaces feeding it.
So if you had a duff patern you just had to run with it and rely on your furnace man to pull the known bad ones out as they went past and toss them into the trimmings ling to go back into the pot.
The castins get some checks then are packed in stillages and sent to the factory.
Our gross profit was $ 800 / ton and these were the good times.
So if Kohler have 1 in 100 that might be a problem then they become a warrantee item.
Those well away from the coal face can take a high minded stance but in the cold cruel real world things are different.
Kohler probably make better than 1,000,000 of these motors each year so some will be faulty, that is the nature of manufacture.
In the 2 years I have been on this list yours is the first case that has come up.
If it had come up before then we would have alerted you to it and there are a lot of certified Kohler techs on this forum.
Hustler on the other hand would have known of this problem from the first time it occurred and they would be making warranttee claims on Kohler, just the same as they would do with kawakasi or briggs or any other engine maker.
naturally from a PR point of view the Hustler rep is not likley to tell you that knew there were problems with some of the engines but we sold them just the same, they are going to blame Kohler and I would not expect them to do any different.
At the price Hustler pays for these engine there is not much profit in making them so every decision is an economic one.
Hustler went with the Kohler because it was cheaper for them to buy than the Kawakasi and the kawakasi was previously used because it was cheaper than the Honda and Honda exited the market rather than downgrade their product to the level that Hustler was willing to pay.
Thus Hustler can offer a mower at a better price than whoever they see as their main competitor for this machine. An economic decision.
That is the reality of the world we live in.
Nothing condesending about it.
All the best mower makers have either downgraded their product , gone out of business or outsourced to China.
And the only reason for this is Joe public will not pay a reasonable price for their products.
Unfortunately you are the customer who got not only the bad engine but from a dealer with poor customer service so you got the double whammy .
Quite justifiably your are angry about your situation, but unfortunately it is the way of modern commerse.
The biggest casting machine I ran had 140 moulds on it.
People have the warm & cosy vision in theri heads of a couple of blokes in leather aprons & spats with a ladle on a long rod.
The machine poured 3 tons of aluminium an hour and had two rotary melting furnaces feeding it.
So if you had a duff patern you just had to run with it and rely on your furnace man to pull the known bad ones out as they went past and toss them into the trimmings ling to go back into the pot.
The castins get some checks then are packed in stillages and sent to the factory.
Our gross profit was $ 800 / ton and these were the good times.
So if Kohler have 1 in 100 that might be a problem then they become a warrantee item.
Those well away from the coal face can take a high minded stance but in the cold cruel real world things are different.
Kohler probably make better than 1,000,000 of these motors each year so some will be faulty, that is the nature of manufacture.
In the 2 years I have been on this list yours is the first case that has come up.
If it had come up before then we would have alerted you to it and there are a lot of certified Kohler techs on this forum.
Hustler on the other hand would have known of this problem from the first time it occurred and they would be making warranttee claims on Kohler, just the same as they would do with kawakasi or briggs or any other engine maker.
naturally from a PR point of view the Hustler rep is not likley to tell you that knew there were problems with some of the engines but we sold them just the same, they are going to blame Kohler and I would not expect them to do any different.
At the price Hustler pays for these engine there is not much profit in making them so every decision is an economic one.
Hustler went with the Kohler because it was cheaper for them to buy than the Kawakasi and the kawakasi was previously used because it was cheaper than the Honda and Honda exited the market rather than downgrade their product to the level that Hustler was willing to pay.
Thus Hustler can offer a mower at a better price than whoever they see as their main competitor for this machine. An economic decision.
That is the reality of the world we live in.
Nothing condesending about it.
All the best mower makers have either downgraded their product , gone out of business or outsourced to China.
And the only reason for this is Joe public will not pay a reasonable price for their products.
Unfortunately you are the customer who got not only the bad engine but from a dealer with poor customer service so you got the double whammy .
Quite justifiably your are angry about your situation, but unfortunately it is the way of modern commerse.
I don't need a lesson in economics and your presumption that I know nothing about the manufacturing process is unfounded. I really don't understand why you even chose to take the time to comment on the obvious choices that a company makes to increase their bottom line.
John R
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Right, Might as well let someone else get screwed by the same dealer.:frown:
So is there a fix for this or does it automatically mean an engine replacement?
I was thinking about looking at a second hand machine with the Kohler 7000 in it - but if it has this condition am I shelling out for a new engine?
I was thinking about looking at a second hand machine with the Kohler 7000 in it - but if it has this condition am I shelling out for a new engine?
I rather enjoyed his "lesson in economics" as it is balls on accurate. Thanks for that. The most important thing to take from his "lesson" is that the reason there are virtually no US factories making products in the US is because the American consumer (generally speaking. Not every one of them) refuses to pay a fair price for quality labor, materials, and manufacturing. Most consumers, when purchasing a product are mainly concerned with price. They want the lowest price. It's not until the low price, low quality product malfunctions that they are suddenly concerned with quality. This is the main reason Companies outsource. Many would have you believe it's greed. Not so. It's survival. You want low, low, prices? Companies must have low, low, costs. Kudos to companies like Honda that refuse to lower their standards to meet a price point. You really do get what you pay for. The other "lesson" is that sh*t happens and there will be defects that make it through QC. Doesn't mean it's a bad process or a bad company. It's how the company handles the aftermath that matters.