Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?
- Thread starter alienball
- Start date
bertsmobile1
Lawn Royalty
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2014
- Threads
- 64
- Messages
- 24,702
As far as I have noticed the main difference between the courage & command is the crank.
The Command crank is a forging so it is fairly thin & relatively light.
The Courage crank looks like it is a high strength casting so it is thick & heavy.
The forging would cost 6 to 10 times more than the casting to make and the crank is the single most expensive part of the engine.
It accounts for somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 the entire manufacturing cost of the engine.
Looking at the engine to me it appears that the crankcases are a bit light to properly support the heavy cast crank.
And the heavier the crank, the harder it is to balance and the more critical the balance becomes.
Having said that I have only had one failure and that was because the lying ex-customer had pulled the engine apart & dropped one of the dowels inside the cases with the predictiable end result.
I have seen 2 where the front bolts had come loose and I have around 150 - 200 Courages on my books as the local glass front floggs a lot of Kohler powered Huskies and now Kohler powered Sannli ( Chineese ).
Leaking rocker covers are very common probably 1 in 3 or 4
The Command crank is a forging so it is fairly thin & relatively light.
The Courage crank looks like it is a high strength casting so it is thick & heavy.
The forging would cost 6 to 10 times more than the casting to make and the crank is the single most expensive part of the engine.
It accounts for somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 the entire manufacturing cost of the engine.
Looking at the engine to me it appears that the crankcases are a bit light to properly support the heavy cast crank.
And the heavier the crank, the harder it is to balance and the more critical the balance becomes.
Having said that I have only had one failure and that was because the lying ex-customer had pulled the engine apart & dropped one of the dowels inside the cases with the predictiable end result.
I have seen 2 where the front bolts had come loose and I have around 150 - 200 Courages on my books as the local glass front floggs a lot of Kohler powered Huskies and now Kohler powered Sannli ( Chineese ).
Leaking rocker covers are very common probably 1 in 3 or 4
Hi, Allen,
It could be that the muffler is full of carbon and heating up or the engine might be running too lean. I just got a Husqvarna as my "rough mower" and the engine (A single 20 HP) had a cracked block, with pieces of metal in the sump. This is a common problem i hear about and in my opinion, it is probably due to lack of oil/filter changes at the proper intervals. Granted, the Kohler Courage series might be a bit fragile, but the engine should provide good service with proper maintenance.
I was given a 19 HP Courage single by my Brother-In-Law after the transmission went bad on his rider, several years ago. I had the Courage Engine on an old MTD Turf Power for several years and when the sump bolts pulled out of the aluminum block on a 14 HP Briggs, in a 1994 Snapper, I installed the Courage on that. Now, the Courage is on the Husqvarna. I always use Synthetic oil and change the filter with every oil change. So far, the engine has done well.
Best of luck with your ZTR. Since you posted this several years ago, I'd be interested how the Courage performed and held up. Mine has been going for at least 7 or 8 years.
Boobaloo
IF you can find parts for the Briggs Opposed. Blocks are NLA and have to be re-machined in some instances to save the motor.
Carscw
Lawn Pro
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2011
- Threads
- 66
- Messages
- 6,375
87nassaublue
Forum Newbie
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2015
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 3
Free is usually always good. That's how I got my troybilt lawn tractor with the bad kohler courage engine. I replaced the bad engine with an opposed twin briggs which I love. When I married my wife she had a nice looking husky with a 19 kohler courage that had started leaking oil. It had low hours. I sold that thing while it ran good and before it self destructed. I know some people have been lucky and gotten decent service from the courage engine, but knowing what I know, I'd never spend good money on one.
Yes, according to me the design and manufacturing are very weak.
I own a Kohler Courage 19HP SV590S mounted on a Toro Z4200 zero turn. (Year 2009)
The engine is now death.
The engine was correctly maintained with frequent oil and air filter changes.
Problems were starting 2 years ago with loose engine cover bolts under the magnetic flywheel (bolts heads were filed by the flywheel and oil loss.)
Known problem because Kohler issued a Service Bulletin about that issue.
Of course the end users are not receiving the SB.
Soon after, I've remarked a long crack in the engine carter, back side from below the engine cover, near the muffler.
I've repaired that crack and the engine was running ok up to yesterday, Sept 2016.
Yesterday, I tried to start the engine for mowing as usual and there was a big clac, followed by a loud detonation.
Engine broken.
I guess that the plastic gears for the cams are gone to ghost. Perhaps there is another hole in the casing.
Engine not yet removed.
The problem with lose bolts is known. Poor workmanship, no use of thread lock.
The problem of cracks is also well known with this type of engine. Foundry problem?
For sure, I will not even try to repair such an engine and I will replace it by an hopefully better B&S Intek OHV AVS 19.5HP.(same bolting pattern)
That is really bad, because I own an old National mower (golf mower) since years and the Kohler engine on that machine is really good and reliable.
But that old engine is not made with plastic and poor aluminum casing.
I cannot believe that the Kohler Courage engines are U.S made.
If yes they should go for LEAN design and Manufacturing.
Yves. (Belgium)
I own a Kohler Courage 19HP SV590S mounted on a Toro Z4200 zero turn. (Year 2009)
The engine is now death.
The engine was correctly maintained with frequent oil and air filter changes.
Problems were starting 2 years ago with loose engine cover bolts under the magnetic flywheel (bolts heads were filed by the flywheel and oil loss.)
Known problem because Kohler issued a Service Bulletin about that issue.
Of course the end users are not receiving the SB.
Soon after, I've remarked a long crack in the engine carter, back side from below the engine cover, near the muffler.
I've repaired that crack and the engine was running ok up to yesterday, Sept 2016.
Yesterday, I tried to start the engine for mowing as usual and there was a big clac, followed by a loud detonation.
Engine broken.
I guess that the plastic gears for the cams are gone to ghost. Perhaps there is another hole in the casing.
Engine not yet removed.
The problem with lose bolts is known. Poor workmanship, no use of thread lock.
The problem of cracks is also well known with this type of engine. Foundry problem?
For sure, I will not even try to repair such an engine and I will replace it by an hopefully better B&S Intek OHV AVS 19.5HP.(same bolting pattern)
That is really bad, because I own an old National mower (golf mower) since years and the Kohler engine on that machine is really good and reliable.
But that old engine is not made with plastic and poor aluminum casing.
I cannot believe that the Kohler Courage engines are U.S made.
If yes they should go for LEAN design and Manufacturing.
Yves. (Belgium)
Last edited:
bertsmobile1
Lawn Royalty
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2014
- Threads
- 64
- Messages
- 24,702
If you read the entire thread you will see were the Kohler Krack originates from.
The original design had a forged crankshaft and the cases were designed for the lighter thinner forging.
The Courage came about because people would not pay the price to make the engine economic so Kohler substituted a cast nodular iron crank for the steel forged crank to make a cheap engine.
Because the crank is heavier and the counter weight is heavier you get different vibrations .
The Commands never crack and the Courages do.
I have 50 or so Husqvarnas fitted with Courage engines .
The ones I service annually are going strong because I found out early that you have to remove the blower housing every year clean the cooling fins & check the tightness of the 4 bolts near the cylinder
I now have 3 customers who I did not service annually with Devcon in the crack and they are running fine.
Most of the Courages are well into the 500 hour territory and most are running strong.
I am about to do the repair to another this week.
The secret is to properly prepare the crack and to make sure you drill the root of the crack.
And I rarely ever use loktite , I don't believe in it.
One of the Cracked kohlers is in a commercial customers mower and he does about 500 hours / year and this is the 3rd year with the crack.
The original design had a forged crankshaft and the cases were designed for the lighter thinner forging.
The Courage came about because people would not pay the price to make the engine economic so Kohler substituted a cast nodular iron crank for the steel forged crank to make a cheap engine.
Because the crank is heavier and the counter weight is heavier you get different vibrations .
The Commands never crack and the Courages do.
I have 50 or so Husqvarnas fitted with Courage engines .
The ones I service annually are going strong because I found out early that you have to remove the blower housing every year clean the cooling fins & check the tightness of the 4 bolts near the cylinder
I now have 3 customers who I did not service annually with Devcon in the crack and they are running fine.
Most of the Courages are well into the 500 hour territory and most are running strong.
I am about to do the repair to another this week.
The secret is to properly prepare the crack and to make sure you drill the root of the crack.
And I rarely ever use loktite , I don't believe in it.
One of the Cracked kohlers is in a commercial customers mower and he does about 500 hours / year and this is the 3rd year with the crack.
@bertsmobile1
Yes I've read your previous post about that issue.
Thanks for the explanation
However it does not make me more happy about the product and service quality.
There was a service bulletin about that problem and I was not informed by the mower seller.
He was not selling every day a Toro Z4200 @ about 2.900€ and should have contacted me.
In the car industry when a problem is found, usually the cars have to be returned to the garage to fix it.
He told me that he did not receive the SB. I cannot verify
.
Here is what the SB mentioned :
Loose Cover Plate Reminder
Steps have been taken to prevent the future occurrence of loose cover plate bolts.
The dates for these guidelines took place at Serial No. 36285XXXX3.
If the cover plate bolts are found loose and the crankcase and gasket are intact, remove the loose bolts and inspect the
the crankcase for cracks or any other significant damage.
If none is found, apply blue Loctite® to the threads of the four bolts, reinstall and torque to 216 in.lbs (24.4 n.M).
Check the tightness of the other bolts and torque as necessary to 216 in.lbs (24.4 n.M)
A policy adjustment of 1 hour of labor applies.
They knew about the cracks in the crankcase and the loose bolts.
I have to add the my Kohler serial # is 3800219403 so way after these guidelines took place.
Yves
Yes I've read your previous post about that issue.
Thanks for the explanation
However it does not make me more happy about the product and service quality.
There was a service bulletin about that problem and I was not informed by the mower seller.
He was not selling every day a Toro Z4200 @ about 2.900€ and should have contacted me.
In the car industry when a problem is found, usually the cars have to be returned to the garage to fix it.
He told me that he did not receive the SB. I cannot verify
.Here is what the SB mentioned :
Loose Cover Plate Reminder
Steps have been taken to prevent the future occurrence of loose cover plate bolts.
The dates for these guidelines took place at Serial No. 36285XXXX3.
If the cover plate bolts are found loose and the crankcase and gasket are intact, remove the loose bolts and inspect the
the crankcase for cracks or any other significant damage.
If none is found, apply blue Loctite® to the threads of the four bolts, reinstall and torque to 216 in.lbs (24.4 n.M).
Check the tightness of the other bolts and torque as necessary to 216 in.lbs (24.4 n.M)
A policy adjustment of 1 hour of labor applies.
They knew about the cracks in the crankcase and the loose bolts.
I have to add the my Kohler serial # is 3800219403 so way after these guidelines took place.
Yves