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  1. #41

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Mower
    Cub Cadet,Sears Craftsman, Kubota BX23

    Smile Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom59 View Post
    ....explain what will happen if you run higher octane.
    There is only one station near me with non-ethanol. I add about 1/4 ounce of Sea Foam to each 2 gallon gas container using regular 87 octane. I had two carbs ruined a few years ago before I really knew about ethanol. My Sears tractor has been acting up and putting Sea Foam in at a strong concentration allows it to run great with modulating the choke. It is 12 years old. I put my Sea Foam/gas mixture in all my machines except my newer cars.
    ('06 and '12). The newer cars use lower w oils that, to my understanding stop the damage done by ethanol somehow.
    I never added Sea Foam to my Kubota diesel BX 23 but will have to read the label to see if it is OK to do so.

  2.  

  3. #42

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2
    Location
    Alabama
    Mower
    MTD - Yard-Man

    Cool Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Quote Originally Posted by konowl View Post
    I'm not overly concerned with the added cost although my boat will suck. I'm concerned about running 91 octane in my small engines and my 2 stroke boat
    my stilh trimmer calls for 91 octane and syn.mix oil ! any engine I,ve ever had starts and runs better with higher octane fuel ! and I,ve had a bunch ! ROLL TIDE !

  4. #43

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3
    Location
    Iowa
    Mower
    John Deere

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Quote Originally Posted by Pochie View Post
    There is only one station near me with non-ethanol.
    Have to chuckle -- I live in Iowa, and non-ethanol gas is available everywhere, in 87 and 91 octane, despite all the cornfields.

    Fewer cars = fewer EPA restrictions, I guess.

  5. #44

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2
    Location
    Alabama
    Mower
    MTD - Yard-Man

    Cool Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Quote Originally Posted by pleeson View Post
    Have to chuckle -- I live in Iowa, and non-ethanol gas is available everywhere, in 87 and 91 octane, despite all the cornfields.

    Fewer cars = fewer EPA restrictions, I guess.
    I thought in iowa you just stuck ears of corn in your tank ! just kidding here in Bama everything runs on Pork ! LOL

  6. #45

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    7
    Location
    Maryland
    Mower
    Cub Cadet

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    I wouldn't be using high octane fuel in a mower engine, or in any engine that doesn't require hi-test in the operating instructions. High octane doesn't make the fuel more "powerful", it only resists knocks and pre-ignition in engines that require hi-test gas. It does this my having a higher resistance to ignation that regular gas. This, in turn, make the frame front slower, and the gas charge burns longer. In a mower engine, this gas can still be burning at max temperature when your exhaust valve opens, and that doesn't add to the life of the valve or the valve seat if you use this fuel all the time. If you hate ethanol, then get the good old 87 octane, and add about 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil to about 5 gallons of gas. I've used it since the ethanol belnds came out, and I've never ad an issue.

    As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.

    As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better!

  7. #46

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    2
    Location
    Illinois
    Mower
    Honda

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Alcohol mixed with gasoline is not a bad thing but should not be allowed in small engines.
    The plastics used in most small engine fuel systems are bad. Blame the manufacturers for cheaping out.
    Old gas is bad, alcohol or not. Alcohol is hygroscopic and will absorb water until it falls out of solution with the gasoline. This alcohol is very rich in oxygen (from the water) and will attack plastics, rubber and especially aluminum.
    Ethanol free gas can be stored up to 8 times longer than blended gas.
    Unless there is 10 to 15 points difference (higher) in octane rating there will be no measurable difference in power output in your small engine.
    Add a nice hot glowing piece of carbon deposit in your weed eaters combustion chamber and you will learn all about preignition and will never run regular in your small two stroke again.

    I have replaced all the fuel lines in my older equipment because of failure due to ethanol. I have had fewer problems if I drain all the fuel before storing but this seems to cause the diaphragms in my two stroke carbs to become brittle and fail (conjecture on my part). In carburetors with floats ALL the gas needs to be drained, even the little bit remaining after "running" it dry can still cause problems. The aluminum oxide (white rust) created by the ethanol and water will find it's way into the carb's pilot jet (idle circuit) and is mostly impossible to remove especially in the newer fixed jet carbs.

    I have worked on small engines before ethanol and have found carb bowls half full of water (condensation from the fuel tank) and just drained and cleaned the tank and carb bowl and they usually started right up with fresh gas. Since ethanol no such luck especially if white scaly deposits are present. If you suspect that a piece of equipment has sat a long time, do NOT try to start. Drain and clean the fuel system first. This might save you the cost of a new carb.

    My advice: Ethanol blend, four strokes with float bowels, drain ALL gas and run dry with choke on and, if possible, drain float bowl. Good till next season. Two strokes, drain all gas, fill with fresh fuel mixed with stabilizer and hope for the best.

    Non ethanol gas, fill with fresh and run for a short time. Stabilizer an option but a good idea. Good to go next season.

    To all the other people who have posted about the omnipotent manufacturers and that they know best, mostly true but remember that they do not want to spend 3 times as much for the proper fuel system components when they can make much more on repairing/replacing your equipment all the while blaming it all on ethanol. No warrantees cover bad gas no matter how fresh (you think) it is.

    Ethanol blend will attack your small engine fuel system. Old ethanol blend is 100 times worse.


    I am old but still smart because I listen and read and don't believe 100% of either.

  8. #47

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    2
    Location
    Illinois
    Mower
    Honda

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    [TCW-IIIQUOTE=hcooper;117643]I wouldn't be using high octane fuel in a mower engine, or in any engine that doesn't require hi-test in the operating instructions. High octane doesn't make the fuel more "powerful", it only resists knocks and pre-ignition in engines that require hi-test gas. It does this my having a higher resistance to ignation that regular gas. This, in turn, make the frame front slower, and the gas charge burns longer. In a mower engine, this gas can still be burning at max temperature when your exhaust valve opens, and that doesn't add to the life of the valve or the valve seat if you use this fuel all the time. If you hate ethanol, then get the good old 87 octane, and add about 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil to about 5 gallons of gas. I've used it since the ethanol belnds came out, and I've never ad an issue.

    As for outboard engines, if you have a 2-stroke, I'm not sure what they recommend now, but it used to be a no-no to use hi-test gas. With the 2-stroke, using the proper oil and gas/oil mix shoudl negate any bad stuuf regarding ethanol. You can substitute an ounce of MMO for one ounce of 2-stroke oil and be safe, also.

    As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better![/QUOTE]

    FYI: TCW-III oils are NOT recommended for air cooled two strokes. Can't take the higher exhaust temps of air cooled. You will never ever burn an exhaust valve using higher octane gas. Fuel is still burning in ALL gas engines when the exhaust port/valve opens. Using premium fuel instead of regular is just wasting money if not required. Premium fuel will NOT damage an engine. Marvel Mystery (snake) Oil might offer some protection from ethanol but don't tell a manufacturer that you used it as partial replacement for two stroke oil (wow!). While I respect your opinion, some of your statements fly in the face of known facts. As for premium gas in two stroke outboards (in olden times), yes it was true because the higher lead content would build up on the exhaust ports but it's been at least 30 years since leaded pump gas. The Blue Stuff is Sta-Bil. I can only surmise that you are older than I and I'm really old.

  9. #48

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    223
    Location
    Inside the Beltway in Virginia
    Mower
    Old Honda HRS-21

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    DO NOT EVER substitute MMO for any portion of 2 cycle oil. It is a wonderful top end oil, but can clog carbs. If you've done this and gotten away without anything bad happening, you've been lucky. It also is not designed to burn well like proper 2 cycle oil. BITD, my Dad would make a "cocktail" of MMO and denatured alcohol,and other things(dry gas?), and pour it straight down the carb of the car. The neighborhood would fill with huge clouds of smoke. Downwind from the driveway, there would be noticeably fewer mosquitoes for days. But it also would choke out the engine eventually. He would stop just before choking out a couple times and then choke it out on purpose. The choking out is partly due to air/"fuel" ratio being way off in this situation, but also because MMO isn't made to burn.

    And let's be clear about what is bad about ethanol. If you look at the "recipe" of gas, you'd know that there are way stronger solvents that can react with plastic/rubber than ethanol in our gasolines. The two issues regarding ethanol are 1. it's ability to attract water, and corrode certain parts in the fuel system, and 2. it's ability to add to the carbon build up that already happens. I don't know of anything that will address the corrosion issue. Sea Foam does help stop, and in time, remove the carbon build up, and should be used, even in ethanol free gasoline.

  10. #49

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    125
    Location
    Connecticut
    Mower
    Hustler FasTrak

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    Quote Originally Posted by hcooper View Post

    As for hi-revving 2-strokes like chain saws, there is a fuel additive that combats ethanol woes. It's blue and I just can't think of the name. Most hardware and saw stores sell it, and it's not that expensive, considering the small amount of fuel these little engines use. Don't use hi-test in these engines either, as they will get way to hot. Be sure to use GOOD 2-stroke oil. I've used Wal-Mart's Super-Tech TCW-III 2-stroke oil for years, and it's seems to be just fine. It might be Wal-Mart's brand name, but they sure don't make it! Just mix it per what the engine maker says.....more isn't better!
    Might want to look at Stihls website they recommend 91 octane 89 octane min. Most of these two strokes are high performance based engines high reving mine runs at 14,000rpm iirc.

    Gasoline Guidelines for STIHL Outdoor Power Equipment | STIHL USA Mobile


    I prefer in all my two strokes Royal Purple synthetic....

    http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/produ...FUqk4AodYEUAoQ
    Last edited by Tom59; 07-12-2013 at 04:24 PM. Reason: more info

  11. #50

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    223
    Location
    Inside the Beltway in Virginia
    Mower
    Old Honda HRS-21

    Re: 87 octane with ethanol OR 91 octane ethanol free

    I also use a synthetic oil. I've been using it since before it was commonly available for lawn equipment. I used to work in a motorcycle shop, where 2 stroke synthetics were first seen(at least by me). I got one suitable for 50:1, and have stuck with it ever since. But I got in trouble once, as it didn't have a dye in it(back then), and a new blower had a piston explode in the first 10 minutes. The shop took it in, but refused to honor the warranty at first, because of the lack of visual evidence of oil in the gas. They did a test of the gas, by dipping a piece of paper towel in the gas and looking at it a day later. Gas evaporates, and oil doesn't, so the oil on the paper tower saved me the cost of that repair. I still use the same oil, but they have added a dye.

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